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You'd have thought the highlights show on ITV4 would have opened with the latest news wouldn't you?
[url= http://www.eurosport.co.uk/cycling/tour-de-france/2017/eurosport-teams-up-with-peter-sagan-for-exclusive-tour-de-france-content-campaign_sto6231991/story.shtml ]oops [/url] #askwho ?
I'm not so sure, it looked like Cav was only on the barriers because Sagan had come so far across.
That's what I meant - it was Sagan's line that caused the crash, not the elbow. Deserved relegation but not DQ in my opinion.
Glad Cav has the chance to continue.
Depends if you think that changing your line suddenly and taking out someone who you really should have noticed is on your inside is a DQ offence... 🙂
Far as have understood Sagan was felt involved in the first crash and also done some iffy stuff in some of the other sprints - hence the DQ. Wasn't based on this incident in isolation.
You'd have thought the highlights show on ITV4 would have opened with the latest news wouldn't you?
No, but given that bugger all else happened on the stage I'd expect a pretty thorough examination and series of interviews. Just hope they hurry up with it!
Bets on Sagan being back in the race on appeal tomorrow?
no chance
Pretty low - what would be the reasoning?
ITV in favour of Sagan or at least think its harsh. I think the elbow might not have been the deciding factor for Cav but it was for Sagan. Makes it look like he wanted Cav to crash.
Surprised at Boardman's analysis....to me, the elbow was deliberate..probably not intending to cause Cavendish to crash, but certainly to block him
tdf needed to trump giro poopgate.
I think sagan put cav into the barrier by moving across his line, looks like a small elbow/bit of leaning then cav goes down. Big elbow from sagan seems to be after cav is going down and maybe for balance.
Imo it was sagans fault, but not sure he actually meant to put cav into the barrier.
Dq may be harsh but if they're taking other factors into account, fair enough.
I'm pretty sure there was no intent - but it does look rather like Sagan made a bad call & that's why he's out.
To me it looks like the 'elbow' was a rebalancing move. As others have said, Cav was already down at that point and the pair had tangled bars immediately beforehand. My understanding is that the very aggressive line choice was the reason for disqualification which I don't really know enough about to have a solid opinion on. Interestingly, Cav seemed unconcerned about the line and was more upset about the supposed elbow.
I would be interested to see the first crash that Sagan was also supposed to be responsible for.
at least Froome and G seemed to get through the mess without too much trouble.
I think it's a shame for the tour, and a massive shame for Sagan (even if he maybe does deserve it).
Oh, and I'm glad ITV didn't lead with the drama - I've been avoiding all the TdF news all day in wait for the highlights reel.
I'm sure Sagan will appeal, and most seem to think it's not clear cut and harsh. I'm quite surprised the commissars ruled so quickly on it.
I'm sure Sagan will appeal
Commisssires decision is final, there is no right of appeal.
A moments thoughtless defensive move I'm sure, but look at the consequences. If all sprinters did this they'd be none off 'em left by Paris. So yes, he should be sent home.
Cycling news said the sprinters had all been warned there would be no tolerance of dangerous riding this year and every final would be examined.
I don't know if it has been said before, but the one things that stand out for me is that Cav is absolute nails. He was clearly in a lot of pain and yet still delivered a couple of good interviews. Didn't used to think much of him a few years ago but he's one rider who's really changed my opinion.
Always thought Cav was the real deal. When he was younger he came across a bit knobby at times, but he's grown out of that. Unflinchingly honest and always (and it seems genuinely) grateful for his team's work.
He was clearly in a lot of pain and yet still delivered a couple of good interviews.
Given his mild manner, I took it that he was possibly on some quite strong painkillers...
Dangerous move by Sagan, but he looked genuinely apologetic afterwards. The initial penalty was fair, I thought. DQ seems a bit extreme.
And it means that 2 of the most exciting riders are possibly out of the race 😥
Surprised so many are determined to make something of the elbow, I've never contested a sprint in my life but I know I make a lot of odd shapes when I'm off balance!
Griepel's wheel kicked out, Sagan (not sure if because of Griepels wheel or not) veered right, shut Cavendish out, Cavendish forced to lean into Sagan, this puts Sagan off balance who has to lean back in, elbow comes out for balance, bikes hit the floor.
Seemed one of the sketchiest last 2km I've seen in a while, even without the two crashes there was all sorts of veering around and cutting up going on!
ITV suggesting Demare was guilty of an equally bad maneuver immediately after (cutting across Bouhani) so the commissaires needs to be careful not to be seen to be penalising consequences rather than actions.
The slow mo angle from the front does actually look like Cav caught Sagan's arm with his bars as he was going down, or at least Sagan was trying to keep out of the way. Really not convinced Sagan had any control over the elbow.
In fact the more I watch it, from the overhead angle, I agree with Boardman. Sagan completely loses Demare's wheel. He's not blocking Cav - he's trying to stay on his bike. Demare's move actually looks more aggressive.
Ooof! That's a brutal crash.
I'm not convinced the elbow was the deciding factor for Cav, I thought he was on his way anyway. Being a Sagan fanboi I'm inclined to say it was accidental, but the evidence is there and the DQ is quite telling.
A shame for the race! Hope Cav can still race!
Any truth to the rumour that Sagan also caused the earlier crash? Any footage?
Jamie can produce some for you if we can't find any
some gopro footage 1.35 in though its hard to tell what caused it ! 😯 😀
yes but you have to ignore the preceding bit where he just drifts out to where cav is - what are you expecting cav to do at this point? as he has literally nowhere to go because sagan took his piece of road by veering.The slow mo angle from the front does actually look like Cav caught Sagan's arm with his bars as he was going down, or at least Sagan was trying to keep out of the way. Really not convinced Sagan had any control over the elbow.
Yes cav leans in but without that cav just goes down quicker ,because of sagan, as he is ridden into the barrier by sagan this time who was veering to his right.
It is sagans fault
I am not sure it merits a disqualification
Any truth to the rumour that Sagan also caused the earlier crash? Any footage?
Overhead cam of first crash here http://www.steephill.tv/tour-de-france/ - this is the direct link:
There is a rider ~14th wheel who could be Sagan (white top, black shorts, ?silver helmet) who gets squeezed and is right in the middle of the crash and somehow manages to ride it out. I can't really tell though.
Cavendish is out, news just breaking now
It looked to me Sagan's elbow caught on Cavs bar,didn't look intentional imo. Shame to Sagan go as he adds excitement to the sprints.
Cav's out of the tour 🙁
There is a rider ~14th wheel who could be Sagan (white top, black shorts, ?silver helmet) who gets squeezed and is right in the middle of the crash and somehow manages to ride it out. I can't really tell though.
Next to Demare (spl?)? Looks like the rainbow there. Again, hard to tell how the crash happened, though.
its really not the elbow its is everything that precedes it
Cav has the wheel it passes sagan and sagan moves over, removing any space for cav who is going faster, and rides him into the barrier
How exaclty the collision caused them to go down is neither here nor there as the collision is all the fault of sagan changing line and riding him into the barrier.
Whatever the reason, actions or rights and wrongs, the tour is a poorer race for not having Sagan or Cav in it. A sorry state of affairs.
Agree with the poster above, though, Cav is nails (as, it seems, are most pro cyclists)
Poor Cav. He's had some pretty poor luck in the last few years. A few years ago you'd have struggled to sympathise with him - he was arrogant and not especially likeable, but he comes across really well these days and I really feel for him!
So two of the most interesting characters out on day 4. Such a shame - Not least for my virtual team 😛
the tour is a poorer race for not having Sagan or Cav in it. A sorry state of affairs.
Can't disagree with that. The only positive is it despite looking competitive in the last couple of days maybe it was a bit early for Cav to be pushing himself so hard. Hope he has a speedy recovery and comes back next year to knock off another handful of wins.
So who's for the green jersey now?
Whatever the reason, actions or rights and wrongs, the tour is a poorer race for not having Sagan or Cav in it. A sorry state of affairs.
Neither were in Giro and that was a cracking race.
sagan to blame but dq harsh, gutted for cav.
two huge characters which the tour could do with replacing pdq. More airtime for G?
I'd love to see G have a crack at keeping the yellow jersey, but he'd have to do it him self as the rest of sky will be working for froome.
Will he surrender it tomorrow?
Wonder if Thomas would be the designated last man similar to the role that Froome played for Wiggins. If he can stay within a handful of seconds then he could snatch it on the penultimate days time trial.
I know this is wishful thinking but I would really like to see Thomas win.
Anyone else spot Andy Schleck waving them off on the start line?
I immediately had the following, thoroughly unedifying (and NSFW) thought:
In my viewing - Sagan's elbow was after Cav was going down. So, it seems the DQ was for not holding his line. But watching the video - Démare was all over the place - from the far right side of the road in front of Cav in fact to the middle by the time he crosses the line. In fact Démare cut directly across Sagan's and Bouhanni's lines.
I'm a big Sagan fan and yes there are some intracacies to the crash we won't ever know (without knowing Sagans thoughts we will never know his true intent) but I'm glad to see they are coming down hard on stuff like this. The speeds they are going at, plus the amount of people in the sprints now, means that really serious crashes could only become more commonplace. As in F1 they need to keep things safe and need to ensure they do their best to avoid someone being killed on the finish straight, which could happen so easily. It should be a test of a sprinters ability and strength and tactical ability, not about how well they can bully themselves to the front.
Does this link to the on board work for you guys?
http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/video/983217731916/TDF-2017-Stage-4-on-board
Main Peleton crash leading into the finish
Looking at the Cav/Sagan crash not sure either way, sprinting getting to be the most dangerous part of the tour, perhaps they need to clamp down a little and rules were apparently laid out early so they all need to be more careful.
Cav, very diplomatic in the interview, good for him.
"It's always going to get taken out of context what I say" - Cav
Both going home now
Same video Klunk embedded up there ^^ ...
Sagan did cause it, not intentionally, DQ overly harsh IMO.