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There's a lot of ugly in this thread and I don't just mean that weird dropout up there...
Do you understand what brant/travers/cotic do when they design a frame and commission someone to build it?Sorry that was rhetorical, the answer is clearly 'no'.
I'd imagine they start with an idea, use their experience of such things to work out what is actually feasible, examine any options, think carefully about any issues, do some sketches, maybe even some 3-D computer stuff. Have a think about how the end user will experience the product. Possibly do some 'market research'. Then approach a suitable manufacturer/s and discuss how to realise their designs. And I'd imagine they would probably need to produce some prototypes in order to gain real-world knowledge of something (at this point I admit I am different, as there will only be one 'prototype'). They may then go away and refine the design.
They might even use a discussion forum online, to talk to others about stuff.
Am I that far off the mark?
Sorry that was rhetorical, the answer is clearly 'no'.
[i]Am I that far off the mark? [/i]
yep.
their experience
And that's the other point.
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/custom-ti-frame-thoughts ]This what an amateur 'designer' can do.. [/url]. I'd love to compare your efforts of 'designing'..
What you are doing is sending a requirement to a builder who will then use their experience and knowledge to pull together the spec and build the frame. You can't warrant what you are doing as 'designing' and comparing yourself to Brant and others is laughable 😀 .
I'd imagine
yes, there we go, the route of all the problems in this thread.
It's easy to think you're right when a large chunk of your information is from your own imagination.
I'd love to compare your efforts of 'designing'..
Actually, I really must go and carry on with a commission I'm doing for someone. And then sit down later and 'design' another piece that someone else has commissioned. Not related to bikes sadly, but I won't ask you to reciprocate. I don't need to prove my credentials on here, as I'm not selling anything on this forum (as advertising would be against forum rules 😉 ).
It's easy to think you're right when a large chunk of your information is from your own imagination.
I say 'imagination'; it's actually experience of being involved in the design and production of a range of products and services, from jewellery, ornaments and furniture, to elements of graphic design, as well as some photography. Possibly different in terms of actual processes, but I have a rudimentary grasp of the process of designing and manufacturing things. 😀
Not quite sure what you imagined that I imagined.
As I said; time to go and make stuff. See you all later.
That load carrier is fantastic. Just throwing that out there, from someone else who actually does this kind of thing for a living.
The exposed metal is stainless steel: ‘They use a lot of salt on the roads in Sweden,’ says Titchmarsh, ‘I didn’t want any rusting.’
How well do you understand stainless steel, if you think it is corrosion resistant in salt solution?
Is it too late for a rewrite for this here film STW are producing? I've discounted Brant's input into the story based on this thread. What about those halfwits who 'designed' the early Saracens, what about Orange?
There's loads of UK MTB industry stalwarts out there, this is a perfect opportunity to put them in their place.
🙄
Films about framebuilding always have to have a framebuilder with a beard and tattoos. It's the law.
Good point. OP, what's your beard and tattoo status?
The OP isn't the framebuilder, he's the plucky young visionary that all the old farts laugh at, until he's proved right in the end in a heartwarming scene.
Not too late Picton:
£3500 GBP
The 'Designer' (literally)PERK: YOUR NAME as EXEC DESIGNER on a single slate in the opening titles of the film. You can rewrite up to 4 narratives of the story, based on people's jobs, PLUS bespoke ti frame, (in a custom colour of your choice), complete with Fox Float DPS EVOL Shock RRP £1700! 5 x Annual Print and Digital Subscriptions to Singletrack magazine (Jan '16).
I'd recommend a frame builder for you, but I like them so I won't......
"Maybe even 140mm disc on the rear"
As soon as I read that I knew you didn't know what you were taking about.... obviously never ridden a laden bike!!
bartyp, could you design me a pie chart? Won't take a moment for a man of your vision...
I'd be looking for someone who's designed, built and eaten one nemesis.
Came here from the other thread, and just can't help myself.
I will be specifying particular unique aspects of the bike's design.That makes me it's 'designer'.
Sorry but while you may feel that way, almost everyone, including myself will disagree.
It's often the title used by art or fashion based industries that a person who comes up with a concept or brief is "the designer" and god knows there's lots of people whose skills in sports get drawn upon for design influence who too, claim they were designers.
But in the context of creating a product, be it in the leisure industry or otherwise, if your only contribution to a product is the brief then you're a customer (a title that applies to both a company or person asking for a product to be developed and the end consumer) and you still need a design engineer, someone who can take a set of requirements and develop a design that not only meets the requirements laid out by the customer but also meets the requirements laid out by any governing body (industry dependant, think CE marking, CEN tests etc.) and also requirements for manufacturing. Ti is an excellent example as the difficulties involved in welding will have an impact on the final frame design.
Then (and I'm speaking generally here) you'll have another person/company who takes the finalised design and manufactures it. So while you could take a rough design to a manufacturer, and they can offer advice on what works and what doesn't, the responsibility of ensuring that what you've drawn up is feasible does not lie with them. I've seen classic cases of this where someone has sent a one-off quick design to a fabricators only to find that what they'd drawn failed a few weeks later due to design oversight, but that didn't stop the fabricators from making it for them.
The blurred lines come in where people model their businesses differently, lots of smaller firms will have one man/team responsibly for both design brief and execution, outsourcing manufacturing to another party be it within their own organisation or externally.
Some companies (or consumers) might say "We/I want a new bicycle to sell under our name/custom made for me) and outsource both design and manufacture. [i]This is you, nothing wrong with it mind.[/i]
Some really small outfits do everything, but rarely will it be one person doing every aspect, there's just not enough hours in the day to make it profitable.
Some really small outfits do everything, but rarely will it be one person doing every aspect, there's just not enough hours in the day to make it profitable.
It can be profitable enough to make a reasonable living, the trick is to be selective of customers! Sometimes I just fabricate designs that people bring to me, but much more often I get involved in making the design workable, and often designing the bike from scratch to a brief.
The one thing I think that is common among projects I turn down is that the customer doesn't know what they want. By that I don't mean that they don't know the details of a design, or even the basics of an idea, I mean that they don't know why they want the bike and what it's for.
Oh, hold on. I know someone like that. I'll pass your details on to him, ben 😉
It can be profitable enough to make a reasonable living
Good to hear!
I suppose in 2015 it's still tough to decide whether discs or v brakes will be the future. It's just so tough for one man to conceive, specify, design and build a bike these days what with progress and all.
Blimey. You go out for a ride and this nonsense kicks off again...
Delusional...
I'll piss my pants if poor old Titchmarsh ends up with this job from hell 🙂
[quote="dragon"]
The exposed metal is stainless steel: ‘They use a lot of salt on the roads in Sweden,’ says Titchmarsh, ‘I didn’t want any rusting.’
How well do you understand stainless steel, if you think it is corrosion resistant in salt solution?The irony of it is, they don't even use a huge amount of salt in Sweden anymore, they haven't for a good few years. Mainly as it doesn't work very well.
Far more is used in the UK, where the warmer temps actually mean it works.
The irony of it is, they don't even use a huge amount of salt in Sweden anymore, they haven't for a good few years. Mainly as it doesn't work very well.
It's been making a resurgence the last few years, specifically on cyclepaths. They've started using special sweepers (originating from Denmark) that break up and scrape away snow and ice and then spray the cleared surface with a strong salt-solution. They're quite effective, but require some amount of extra maintenance on the part of the cyclists.
Is this your design bartyp?
[img] 
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Top job btw 😀
This is a brilliant thread, I don't think I've ever felt sorry for Brant before... nicely judged mix of smug superiority and an excellent side-dish of indignant offence taken if anyone dares question the OP's credentials.
I like the way he/it/she has stolen it's name from an author of home and gardening manuals:
[url= http://www.bartyphillips.com ]http://www.bartyphillips.com[/url]
Author of claasics like [url= http://www.buildersbook.com/050001812X.html ]Living With Carpets[/url], [url= https://www.waterstones.com/book/how-to-make-the-best-use-of-salvage/barty-philips/9781844680856 ]How to make the best Use of Salvage[/url] and the [url= http://www.arranalexander.co.uk/the-three-billy-goats-gruff-ladybird-book-well-loved-tales-series-606d-gloss-hardback-2965-p.asp ]Ladybird Book of Trolls[/url]...
Surely a different Barty though... same name, which is unusual, but... 😉
Your the designer.....aren't making a copy of your old frame and adding arty details to it?
I've just spent an enjoyable few minutes reading this thread. After reading it, posting this seems appropriate.
A narcissistic Personality Disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of grandiosity (either in fantasy or actual behavior), an overwhelming need for admiration, and usually a complete lack of empathy toward others. People with this disorder often believe they are of primary importance in everybody’s life or to anyone they meet. While this pattern of behavior may be appropriate for a king in 16th Century England, it is generally considered inappropriate for most ordinary people today.
People with narcissistic personality disorder often display snobbish, disdainful, or patronizing attitudes. For example, an individual with this disorder may complain about a clumsy waiter’s “rudeness” or “stupidity” or conclude a medical evaluation with a condescending evaluation of the physician.
In laypeople terms, someone with this disorder may be described simply as a “narcissist” or as someone with “narcissism.” Both of these terms generally refer to someone with narcissistic personality disorder.
A personality disorder is an enduring pattern of inner experience and behavior that deviates from the norm of the individual’s culture. The pattern is seen in two or more of the following areas: cognition; affect; interpersonal functioning; or impulse control. The enduring pattern is inflexible and pervasive across a broad range of personal and social situations. It typically leads to significant distress or impairment in social, work or other areas of functioning. The pattern is stable and of long duration, and its onset can be traced back to early adulthood or adolescence.
Symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder
In order for a person to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) they must meet five or more of the following symptoms:
Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
Requires excessive admiration
Has a very strong sense of entitlement, e.g., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
Is exploitative of others, e.g., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
Lacks empathy, e.g., is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
Regularly shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
Hope that helps 🙂
300!
A narcissistic Personality Disorder
You missed out the bit where they snap and end up killing a few people if they feel overly challenged by them. They also assume they will get away with it because they are superior to others.
For someone who know's exactly what they want and is such a "designer" with half the parts already sat at home... this isn't half taking a long time. Goodness only knows how long a steel build would take if you had to choose a colour as well!
Those above symptoms don't just fit the curious Bartyp; they could easily describe many of the more prolific posters of this forum.
Aside from the obscure killing bit that Kerly wrote up there, obviously...
Aside from the obscure killing bit that Kerly wrote up there, obviously...
There's a new building site next to me - they're laying the concrete foundations today. Just saying.
Dan; stop wasting time with these idiots, and pick up the phone! 😆
@titch.Think of it less like an order lost.And more like your will to live,faith in humanity and sanity retained.
bartyp - MemberYou're really not.No, I really am. In a similar way that Brant is. I will be specifying particular unique aspects of the bike's design.That makes me it's 'designer'.
Awesome, thanks to this thread it turns I'm also a "designer" 😆
And not just around bike frames, having specified particular unique aspects of our recent central heating system, I guess I designed it too? Should I be paying myself design fees for my designs? Perhaps I should be charging the engineer?
I'm a designer and so is my wife.
@Rorachach Indeed.
Well, that took an unexpected turn! 😆
Looks like I've dodged a bullet here, and avoided a potentially very expensive mistake. So, thank you, Titchmarsh, for all your time and help.
I'm going to leave it there, as there's really no point in continuing this. I suggest others do the same.
Thanks.
Errrm, no. You don't get to call it off just cos you've suddenly realised the error(s) of your ways.... The errors people have been trying to help you with since the dawn of time (or so it seems).
Go on then, what happened? How did this great epiphany occur?
This chump reminds me of surfmat BTW, in a 'breathtaking arrogance meets zero interpersonal skills' kind of way.
Shit the bed I thought I was a mare for brant a few years back and more recently Mr shand (well I was actually I don't just think that ;)) but my god frame builders must be running from this thread
I'm going to leave it there, as there's really no point in continuing this. I suggest others do the same.
Encore!!!! Don't leave us, you were just getting started 😐