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Sorry I misunderstood , your concerned about only you , its made for you, no one else, we got that loud and clear after all the advice others have spent their time putting forward in this thread
Yet you started a thread on a forum asking a question about custom or off the peg yet at every turn have dismissed great advice from the entire community.
I'm sure there will be plenty chomping at the bit to get your work ,this happened to me also until they discovered it was a PITA project or told me they had a 9-12 month wait list,and they were the lower tier builders.Even the Lynskey I owned was limited by how much and how far they would go.
This thread I am beginning to suspect is more guerilla marketing for one company who will miraculously fulfill your specific high quality stringent superbike requirement than an actual real life rider looking for a bike off the peg or otherwise.
yet at every turn have dismissed great advice from the entire community.
You're absolutely wrong on this. But then you're completely unaware of the conversations I've had with actual frame builders, others who have Titanium bikes, and people who've had frames made, away from this forum. This forum is not 'the entire community'.
And you've been negatively judgmental (not to mention quite rude) about Titchmarsh without appearing to have much if any knowledge about who they are, and what they do.
As for 'advice'; some of it is little more than the egos of some who seem to think they know better than me, about what I want and need. 'This is what I did and you should do the same because I did and I know better than you'. Great. Thanks.
Sorry I misunderstood
Yeah, I think you did.
I have now had a great conversation with Titchmarsh, which has really helped crystallise things for me.
Basically, I don't [i]need[/i] a new bike. I [i]want[/i] one. I don't need it to be able to be amazing in terms of performance, I just want it to be capable and comfortable. In short, just I want something [i]nice[/i]. I'm not particularly acquisitive; I'm the sort of person who wouldn't buy a Rolex if a Timex does the same job. But I can appreciate why people want nice things. I can also appreciate that for many, a lot of nice things are a bit out of reach. I've certainly not always been in the position to be able to afford stuff. So, all this considered, I do have a pretty good idea of what I want, just not the skills and means to be able to achieve it. Which is where somebody else comes in.
I decided fairly early on that in order to get what I really wanted, not just in terms of the actual product, but also of the whole experience, I will need to get somebody in the UK to make me a frame. As I've discovered, there aren't very many people who can actually do this. What has become important to me, is to be able to help support craftspeople here, and to have a tiny part in supporting the kind of industries this country used to excell at. This is no longer simply about a bike frame; it's become a personal quest to get a piece of art made.
I don't actually care if the finished product will be the best bike in the world, or even if other people like it.
The conversation I had yesterday (and other previous conversations with different people), have made it clear that embarking on such a project in this manner, is exciting and full of potential discovery. The finished product will have much more of 'me' in it, than some mass-produced frame built in a massive factory thousands of miles away; it will be far more personal.
It seems there really are people out there who understand this. I do hope that some people on here will, in time, come to understand this too.
Oh, and Philxx; I really think you owe Titchmarsh an apology. I think you were very rude towards him imo, and ignorant of his actual credentials. Maybe you'd like to take a few minutes to find out what those are.
He's mentioned in this Guardian article:
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/gallery/2014/jun/20/custom-bicycles-gallery
And this is an award winning bike:
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Your deluded chap,
His deluded chap? 🙂
I'm not usually one for niche rigid steel bikes but that Titchmarsh does look great.
I'm all for people challenging bartyp's somewhat, errm, idiosyncratic approach to sourcing a frame but phillxx1975 I think repeatedly having a go at a framebuilder who's posted on here isn't really what stw should be about.
I want people who work in the industry to feel free to post on here, share their experiences and while I don;t always agree with what they say, just being rude to and about them isn't going to further the debate or encourage them to return so let's not do that please.
Meanwhile, less talking and a bit more action results in this..
[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/576/22884344017_d3370c8b85_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/576/22884344017_d3370c8b85_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/ASdfct ]DSC_0330[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/druidh2000/ ]Colin Cadden[/url], on Flickr
Some ideas + great advice from the designer = one happy customer
Your lawn's dreadful and it looks like the drainage at the end of the garden could be improved.
Yeah, and he's clearly tried to ride those bars though a gap that wasn't wide enough 😉
Tyres are a bit fat and it's shame about the bottom cable cutting across the frame space(but that's probably just me).
Nice bike though,how are you finding those bars?
Whether it now feels like a bit of a set up marketing thread as an aside....
Is Ti harder to work with (shape tubes, weld etc) to a high level than steel? I'm sure I read somewhere a while back of the likes of Engin ensuring a super clean environment so the welds aren't contaminated. Or is that just a myth in my noggin.
No, you're right - Ti is harder work with or at least to do it well.
New lame put down du jour: 'Your deluded chap' (sic). Oooo it's so sharp 🙂
That phil1975 was unnecessarily nasty but bartyp has a nerve considering his form right back on page 1.
Can't you naughty boys just be civilised?
[quote=fasthaggis ]Tyres are a bit fat and it's shame about the bottom cable cutting across the frame space(but that's probably just me).
Nice bike though,how are you finding those bars?
FatBNimbles on 50mm rims.
Cable is to a side-swing front mech so routing isn't a choice.
I've used the bars on my fatbike for a couple of years. They certainly feel a bit "different" and I like them for the slow-speed maneuverability often required in snow/ice conditions. Not sure they'll stay on this but they require longer cables/hoses (especially if mounting a handlebar roll) so a good starting point for tweaking.
I had a call this afternoon from someone assuming [i]bartyp[/i] was me. Which made me chuckle.
Colin - your #pact bike looks awesome, and was great fun to design. Thanks for giving us a chance. It's much appreciated.
My winter (off the peg) hack (Slackline):
[img] 
?oh=62979d20cb1f72f85eedda43ef939a7f&oe=56DFDE99[/img]
scotroutes, that looks ace, what actual colour is it? can't work out if it's green or just reflecting the cables.
looks great, love it 😀
bartyp has a nerve
It's my thread about my future bike! 😀
I had a call this afternoon from someone assuming bartyp was me. Which made me chuckle.
Really? How funny! 😆
Whether it now feels like a bit of a set up marketing thread as an aside....
I'm beginning to admire Pact's use of stealth marketing... 😉
Is Ti harder to work with (shape tubes, weld etc) to a high level than steel? I'm sure I read somewhere a while back of the likes of Engin ensuring a super clean environment so the welds aren't contaminated. Or is that just a myth in my noggin.
Titanium fabricators I've spoken to have mentioned the need to a clean environment, so I'd say it's not a myth. I find it encouraging when a frame builder talks to me about stuff of which I have no knowledge, because it shows that they are dedicated professionals and serious about doing a proper job.
Meanwhile, less talking and a bit more action results in this..
A far-eastern made frame. Looks nice, I wish you health to enjoy it.
I find it encouraging when a frame builder talks to me about stuff of which I have no knowledge, because it shows that they are dedicated professionals and serious about doing a proper job.
But that's not the case when designers talk to you about stuff of which you have no knowledge? 🙂
Not when those 'designers' don't actually know how to build frames themselves, no.
Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I'm sure you'll agree that I'm perfectly entitled to that opinion.
Do you think the architect that designed The Shard started as a brickie or does your opinion only stretch to bicycle frames?
Do you think the architect that designed The Shard started as a brickie or does your opinion only stretch to bicycle frames?
That's irrelevant. If bartyp wants to follow pure process in this way he's entitled.
I think it's quite lovely.
It's a pure experience.
Titchmarsh bikes look cool. I was just googling about him and his dad.
Of course, the thing that aggrieved me a tiny bit (which is kind of overstating things anyway) about the Titchmarsh winning the Bespoked award was that it was largely a collection of Paragon Machine Works parts welded together nicely with some tubing in the middle. The front brake hose routing is neat though. And that blue is lovely.
It's not Dan's fault it won though. And it's a lovely looking bike. But when there are people out there who make their own frame parts, and they get beaten by someone who didn't, it makes me question the voting process and stuff. But then you can say that for all awards of course.
[i]Not when those 'designers' don't actually know how to build frames themselves, no.[/i]
I'll bet Issigonis could work a press to make a wing, and then weld it onto the sub frame, but what that has to do with designing a world changing car I'm not sure.
Edited : removed unnecessarily rude bit
You're entitled to your opinion, it's a bit daft, but your welcome to hold it.
Seems a bit rude.
Very good Scotroutes; your trolling skills are improving! 😀
Difference is, that the architect is part of an overall team who have different roles involved in the construction of a building. So it's a collaborative effort (although the architect tends to take the credit).
But in the context of this thread, when someone is offering 'advice' on building a frame, I expect them to have at least some actual experience in doing so.
[i]But in the context of this thread, when someone is offering 'advice' on building a frame, I expect them to have at least some actual experience in doing so. [/i]
[head wall interface]
so a bicycle frame cannot be designed and built by a collaborative team who have different skills, experience and roles?
[/head wall interface]
so a bicycle frame cannot be designed and built by a collaborative team who have different skills, experience and roles?
I'm pretty sure a designer, welder and painter were all involved in producing mine...
But in the context of this thread, when someone is offering 'advice' on building a frame, I expect them to have at least some actual experience in doing so
I'm unclear as to why you're posting on a forum for recreational mountainbikers then, and not professional framebuilders?
Of course, the thing that aggrieved me a tiny bit (which is kind of overstating things anyway) about the Titchmarsh winning the Bespoked award was that it was largely a collection of Paragon Machine Works parts welded together nicely with some tubing in the middle. The front brake hose routing is neat though. And that blue is lovely.It's not Dan's fault it won though. And it's a lovely looking bike. But when there are people out there who make their own frame parts, and they get beaten by someone who didn't, it makes me question the voting process and stuff. But then you can say that for all awards of course.
Dan's bike was commissioned by a customer who specified certain parts. Dan can make custom dropouts and all sorts, if required.
Dan also won an award for this:
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I think he deserves some credit.
I think he deserves some credit.
The thing is, if I was to say that I don't care what you think as you have never made a or designed a frame, so your comments on whether he needs credit or not, to me, are irrelevant, you'd think I was mean.
so a bicycle frame cannot be designed and built by a collaborative team who have different skills, experience and roles?
Of course. And in this case, I'm the 'designer'. Hence why I don't need a 'middle man'.
I'm unclear as to why you're posting on a forum for recreational mountainbikers then, and not professional framebuilders?
Fair point, although this does appear to be one of the most popular cycling forums. So I expected a greater response.
The thing is, if I was to say that I don't care what you think as you have never made a or designed a frame, so your comments on whether he needs credit or not, to me, are irrelevant, you'd think I was mean.
Not really. You're just some random bod on the internet as far as I'm concerned. No offence. You've offered a great deal more insight than some others though, I will say that.
[i]Seems a bit rude.[/i]
yeah you're probably right, I'll change it
[i] I'm the 'designer'.[/i]
You're really not.
You're providing a list of requirements, not 'designing'.
You're really not.
No, I really am. In a similar way that Brant is. I will be specifying particular unique aspects of the bike's design.That makes me it's 'designer'.
If I had chosen another route, sutch as an off the peg frame, or a Pact/travers bike, then you'd be right.
No, I really am. In a similar way that Brant is.
No. Not in a similar way to me, at all.
This thread is great! Many skilled and great names in the bike industry getting shot down by some delusional keyboard warrior with no experience 😆 .
So how are you so different? Please explain.
Many skilled and great names in the bike industry getting shot down by some keyboard warrior with no experience
Please point out where this has actually happened?
I'm merely of a different opinion to others, about the potential construction of a bicycle frame for myself. Ultimately, only my opinion matters. I am happy for others to challenge me on this, and to offer their own input, and I might even take some of it on board. But I'm confident of being able to achieve what I want, so i'm happy to continue as I am. I'm not forcing others to offer any input, merely inviting them to do so. If this results in a debate, so be it. I don't have an issue with that, and neither does Brant, by the looks of things.
As for 'experience'; you have no idea what experience I have. So how can you possibly comment on this? 😕
[i]No, I really am. In a similar way that Brant is.[/i]
Do you understand what brant/travers/cotic do when they design a frame and commission someone to build it?
Sorry that was rhetorical, the answer is clearly 'no'.
Of course, the thing that aggrieved me a tiny bit (which is kind of overstating things anyway) about the Titchmarsh winning the Bespoked award was that it was largely a collection of Paragon Machine Works parts welded together nicely with some tubing in the middle. The front brake hose routing is neat though. And that blue is lovely.
I was with you up to that point. I understand your sentiments and also find the Bespoked judging a bit random.
But after his award winning cargo bike of 2013, Mr Titchmarsh had nothing to prove - that featured quite a bit more engineering (e.g. hub centre steering) than cutting out a pair of dropouts. And the unpainted and unfiled build left nowhere for poor workmanship to hide.
I was also exhibiting my sorry excuses for steel tubed garage bodgery at that show (with no Paragon in sight - all my own dropouts etc) and his was the one bike that stood out over everything else. I kept sneaking back just to stare and spot some other little detail. Real shame I never got to have a chat with him.
But after his award winning cargo bike of 2013, Mr Titchmarsh had nothing to prove - that featured quite a bit more engineering than cutting out a pair of dropouts. And the unpainted and unfiled build left nowhere for poor workmanship to hide
I thought the cargo bike was absolutely fantastic. I still do. It's an amazing ground up innovative hewn from bare-metal creation. It's brilliant.
This thread is great! Many skilled and great names in the bike industry getting shot down by some delusional keyboard warrior with no experience .
I can't believe I took the bait.
Fair point, although this does appear to be one of the most popular cycling forums. So I expected a greater response.
It seems to me that you've got the hump because we haven't all fallen over ourselves in the rush to tickle your tummy.
Barty must have posted whilst I was writing that ^
Hope he enjoys his bike. Will check back next month (this thread seems to wake up every 4 weeks for some reason).