Trawling through the websites looking for a tempting e-bike and both of these pop up in the sub 5k bracket. Like the look of the Orbea and like the reputation of SC so do any owners have any feedback?
Both seem to have the same Bosch motor along with similar battery options. Spec is also reasonably close and not something I'll get hung up on anyway.
Any other options to consider? Needs to be full-ish fat and have decent range. Also trying to keep away from the less popular motors. I know the answer is the 4k Amflow but I won't want to wait 6 months if I decide to jump!
Sit tight and go Amflow full retard.
Usually the best advice for ebike purchase is to act, and not get caught in an endless wait for whatever improvement. But we're in a new era now - you'd just be storing up regret with these other bikes.
disagree about waiting tbh. both bikes will be great and enjoyable and you can have them tomorrow. you're stuck at 15mph anyway and the bosch motors are plenty powerful and have decent ranges.
I don't think you could go wrong with any of them, but do you want an enduro bike or a trail bike?
You've got the Wild at the more enduro end of the spectrum and the Amflow at the trail end, with the Vala in the middle.
If you know the exact model of each you can compare directly here: https://99spokes.com/en-GB/compare?bikes=orbea-wild-h10-2025%2Csantacruz-vala-al-70-2026 (I just took at guess at the cheaper ones)
Just posted on t'other thread..
Bought an Alu Vala for MrsReady. She had been riding a Levo SL for the last few years, and her initial thought was it was very heavy! We've only had 1 "proper" ride in the Surrey Hills so far but the weight worry soon disappeared, and she said it was a very nice ride. She's still tweaking the power/modes but I think it was the best bang for buck at the time. (We ordered it a few weeks ago and it literally arrived the day before the new DJI powered bikes were announced!)
Managed a 30miler with 4500ft, without using the range extender.
Personally I wouldn't want a Bosch Gen 5 bike with a battery smaller than 800wh. The 600 battery on the Vala is going to restrict range.
And the headset cable routing on the Wild would also put me off.
And the headset cable routing on the Wild would also put me off.
Routine maintenance on them is still pretty straightforward. I recently cleaned and regreased the bearings, frame cups and crown race on my Rise and it didn't take any longer than on a non ICR bike. No need disconnect any cables, just remove then stem and lower the fork enough to access everything. If/when I do wear out the headset bearings, the brakes would probably be due a bleed anyway.
I'd obviously prefer the cables to run through the frame, but I wouldn't (and didn't) discount a bike just because it has headset cable routing.
On the plus side, it does look very neat and tidy.
I know my recent post about lighter weight sub-£4k eMTBs isn't exactly what you're asking in wanting full power. But desperatebicycle's suggestion to me of the full-fat Cannondale Moterra SL might be an option for you? Full-fat power, common motor (maybe not as common as Bosch) and decent range.
Shimano EP801 with 85Nm and 600W+ peak, and a 601Wh battery. Do they have a range extender option?
Added bonus of being light for a full-fat and sub-£4k.
https://www.ibksport.uk/moterra-neo-carbon-sl-2-cannondale-2025-smoke-black/p
Wheelbase have Al Valas cheap atm the moment. The rep of Santa cruz would put that against the wild all day long . And internal headset routing is a %100 no no now . Heavy AF like but Vala hands down
Thanks team. I wouldn't discount a Shimano (or X or Y) motor altogether but it would have to be significantly cheaper than the current generation Bosch CX. The Vala I'm looking at offer the range extender for £250 so worth getting I reckon?
Anything else I should look at around 5k? Don't want a Giant, wouldn't choose a Cube, Trek or Canyon over my other options.
Wheelbase have Al Valas cheap atm the moment. The rep of Santa cruz would put that against the wild all day long . And internal headset routing is a %100 no no now . Heavy AF like but Vala hands down
Ta, I'll have a look as they have a branch not far away.
Thanks team. I wouldn't discount a Shimano (or X or Y) motor altogether but it would have to be significantly cheaper than the current generation Bosch CX. The Vala I'm looking at offer the range extender for £250 so worth getting I reckon?
Anything else I should look at around 5k? Don't want a Giant, wouldn't choose a Cube, Trek or Canyon over my other options.
If Shimano is a consideration then I got my EP801 equipped 2025 Rise LT H10 for £3999. It 's meant to be a mid weight bike so "only" has a 630Wh battery but there's a range extender for around £400. Absolutely brilliant bike.
There will be plenty of good deals on other EP801 bikes as they've fallen out of favour as everyone chases max power. The Cannondale a11y posted above is another good shout.
Shimano aren't as serviceable as other brands (which isn't saying much as I don't think any of them are really), but there is one company that will do it. Shimano are meant to be pretty good when it comes to free motors if they fail just out of the warranty period though, and they also offer a sliding scale discount depending on how far out of their grace period you are.
A mate has just got a Cube one77 - think it was the top spec 2025 (Kashima 38's etc) for £5.5k. Think the next model down (still 38's but Performance) but 2026 are available for similar - I've not really looked for the best deals.
It's slightly chunky, but he flies on it. Leaves my full fat Levo for dead uphill even before the Bosch update. I'll finish a ride with no battery and he'll have 30-40%+ left in the tank. Looks pretty good too IMO
I've got an orbea wild m10.
Lighter and better handling then my previous cube ebike which got damaged in a botched theft.
Everyone is looking towards the amflow these days but I'm very happy with the orbea and no intention of looking at anything else.
Bosch motor and can tweak the power settings easily in thr app. Only downside is the headset cables but in reality how often do you need to take it apart.
When I bought it first thing I did was change the brakes to my hope tech 3s as I have spares for them. Leisure lakes changed it and fitted the hope hose for £30.
Don't discount the shimano motors. My mate has an orbea rise and its into its 3rd year with no issues.
Everyone is looking towards the amflow these days but I'm very happy with the orbea and no intention of looking at anything else.
Give it a month or two, you can have both
Sunset have a Mondraker Crafty with a decent discount that brings carbon, bosch and 800wh into your budget.
Anything else I should look at around 5k?
2026 Mondraker Crafty's discounted to sub £5k now...
I had a 2023 Wild, and though it was a great bike it had its foibles... Mostly to do with the headset and the stupid internal cable routing, but also Orbea's proprietary battery mounts too... The 750Wh battery made it quite nose heavy too, and Orbea's size chart is optimistic at best (if in doubt, size up basically!).
Vala's are popular amongst my riding mates, but all on carbon... It kinda makes sense at sub 22kg with a 600Wh battery, but less so once it's over 24kg in alloy still with a 600Wh battery...
I'm still on my 2025 Mondraker Crafty which I've had a year now, and heavily upgraded... Don't miss the Orbea Wild it replaced one bit, the Crafty is a better all round trail bike (maybe not quite so Enduro focussed, but that's not as big a part of my riding anyway) and is far easier to maintain and look after... The 800Wh battery is 500g lighter than the 750's that Orbea have stuck with too, which is surprisingly noticeable (the battery is shorter too, gives much better weight distribution)...
If my Crafty was stolen tomorrow I'm 99% sure I'd just replace it with another one, which for someone who's had a LOT of bikes over the years and many of them didn't last all that long, is high praise indeed I'd say! Worth tuning the stock shock though or fitting a better aftermarket one, the stock tune on the Float X can feel a bit underdamped for many...
Size small only on the sub 5k Crafty unfortunately.
Size small only on the sub 5k Crafty unfortunately.
Mtbmonster have the mondraker crafty in stock around 5k and just under if you're local to them.
Size small only on the sub 5k Crafty unfortunately.
This year's Crafty Carbon S is in two colours and all sizes bar XL in black.
https://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/index.php?product_id=12935&category_id=458
Avinox powered Orbea Wild due out in next couple of months
I wouldn't discount bikes with the 600wh, I've easily managed just shy of 23miles and 6000ft rides. (I am far from fit)
Size small only on the sub 5k Crafty unfortunately.
This year's Crafty Carbon S is in two colours and all sizes bar XL in black.
https://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/index.php?product_id=12935&category_id=458
Thanks for that, wasn't showing in the section I looked. I like that!
You can be forgiven, even their search feature doesn't think they have any!
Just make sure you actually have a look at a Vala Al in person before you buy.
Yes, some people will say it doesnt matter. But they are Heavy AF. As in, heavy enough that it would be a simple no from me, regardless of the reputation. Especially so given you'll typically get a low-ish spec on a Santa Cruz compared to some other brands at the same RRP.
There are absolutely loads of amazing deals out there currently on ebikes from other brands which are not as 'trendy' as SC but very, very good bike companies: Mondraker, Orbea, Trek, Cube, etc etc..
I have a the 2024 M10 Wild. Its one hell of a bike but very much at the enduro end of things (i upped the fork to 170). Its a proper beast and handles really well even on the steep stuff. I almost never stick it in boost as even with the lesser assistance modes i find myself getting to the 15.5mph cut off too quickly. Plus higher power on tech climbs means lots of wheelies and spinning out on roots etc. I really don't get the "max power" lure of the past couple of years, just feels like a marketing angle cos nobody has figured out the real issue with E bikes, battery weight.
So define 'decent range' and 'full-ish' fat.
Orbea Rise is 85nm (but power limited to 400W rather than the unrestricted 600. It's actually 150/250/400w across the 3 settings). With the 630 battery I can get well at least 1500m of vertical out of it but you will be a bit slower up the hills than people on full fat bikes. [side note, you remove the limit with free software- though need to buy or borrow the shimano PC interface].
A 600 battery on a full fat bike will still get you some way over 1000m vert and you can tune it down for longer rides.
Bike weight does make a big difference to how a bike feels to ride - see Benji's reviews on this site. And the difference between 20-22kg and something like the Al Vala (which is 24.5kg without pedals) is very noticeable.
I'd not get too hung up about headset routing. You get very neat quiet cables at the expense of a slightly more difficult fork fitting and a very big faff to replace headset bearings (but that's such an infrequent job that you might never need to even do).
Theres a lot of noise about the cheap Amflow but it looks like it adds 2kg of weight to the regular bike, doesn't come with the fast charger and has very low end suspension and brakes. I'd guess most non-casual riders are going to want to change all of those at which point - the PR pro which addresses those - is 5400.
Stuff like the Whyte Karve suggests there are going to be a range of Avinox equipped bikes at that sort of price point. And if you don't need the removable battery they're going to be lighter than the Amflow (the removable battery adds weight, the mounting system in the frame adds weight and the frame itself needs to be heavier to be strong with the hatch in it)
I have a carbon Vala and absolutely love it! I was going to go for the AL version but found a great deal on the bike and took the advantage of a c2w scheme at work... I thought it worth the upgrade. Other bikes didn't quite have the "it" factor for me... I am a through and through Santa Cruz fan though!
I've not done a "BIG" day on it yet but haven't worried about the range on the 600W battery (and also have the range extender should I be out for a BIG day). It's pedalable (?1) with the motor off on flat/slight slopes so if you do have a bit of range anxiety, just turn the thing off completely and use your legs!
It rides incredibly well, I actually find it more balanced between the wheels than my Bronson and I think the added weight generates loads of confidence in the corners. For my riding, I don't find the power in the motor to be lacking compared to mates on Amflow bikes... I think it depends if you want a MTB with assitance OR something that is turning into a new kind of sport...
(but that's such an infrequent job that you might never need to even do)
Unless you buy an Orbea, as they fit cheap disposable headsets. [ other brands might do the same ]
OP, there are bargains out there for the Wild ST by the way. Worth a look. It's unusually specced (in a way that might work for you). Short travel but tough. At £3.5K you could add pretty much any upgrade you want and keep to your price bracket (I'd change just the fork... and the lower headset bearing).
So define 'decent range' and 'full-ish' fat.
Still getting my head around e-bikes but I don't want one of the lighter weight, small motor and battery bikes that seem to be falling out of fashion. The standards seem to change by the week but I think i'm aiming for at least a 600/700 battery with 85nm motor?
My current riding if either trail centres or the Dales where I'll go up to around 50km but I'd want to go further on an e-bike and be able to combine rides I do now as stand alone, if that makes sense? Want to get up to the Lakes and have some big days out there too.
My current riding if either trail centres or the Dales where I'll go up to around 50km but I'd want to go further on an e-bike
I think i'm aiming for at least a 600/700 battery with 85nm motor?
You need to think more in total climb than distance - that's what drives battery use. You really don't use much battery on the flat- it doesn't take that much effort to get an unpowered bike up to 15mph. The *range* of most bikes doesn't actually vary that much IME - the lower powered bikes with smaller batteries will do about the same as full powered bikes in their 'mid' settings. (but slower)
Mk 1 Rise, 360wh battery I used to get about 1200m. With the 250 range extender about 1800) . That seems to be about what what mates get out of full power bikes with 6-800w batteries depending on how they ride them (Go everywhere in Turbo and you burn it quicker). The Mk2 Rise with 630 I'm running in higher torque settings than the Mk1 but still with power limited I reckon 1500+. I rarely ride it in boost and my Trail is set to 42nm I think.
Proper big days out are always going to be an issue - you want a decent size battery and to turn down the assistance (ride the climbs slower in Eco). Range extenders are the other option but then you're making your bike heavy with the corresponding negative impacts on handing - even the 250 RE from the Rise added 1.5kg so the same as two large water bottles. The Amflow 600 RE is nearly 3kg and I'd be surprised if the rumoured 400wh is not most of the way to 2.5kg.
If you're riding with other people it works best if you're all on around the same power and battery.
Rider weight makes a difference to range on ebikes too.
I'm not fat but I'm also not light (15ish stone), and an average ride on my 630Wh Rise is around 23miles/3000ft. That's mostly using assist level 3 of 7 which is around 45nm (Trail mode essentially), and I usually get home with around 10-15% battery remaining. I do have Assist Character (how much it multiplies rider input) set to the highest level too though, so could easily get a bit more life out of the battery if I turned that down a bit.
Rider weight makes a difference to range on ebikes too.
I'm not fat but I'm also not light (15ish stone), and an average ride on my 630Wh Rise is around 23miles/3000ft. That's mostly using assist level 3 of 7 which is around 45nm (Trail mode essentially), and I usually get home with around 10-15% battery remaining. I do have Assist Character (how much it multiplies rider input) set to the highest level too though, so could easily get a bit more life out of the battery if I turned that down a bit.
That's interesting. The standard RS+ settings are an assist character of 5 on Trail and 9 on Boost (of 12 max I think?). I reckon that's whats killing your battery rather than your weight. I'm about 85kg in kit and my partner is about 65 - so twice the difference between you and me and our battery usage really isn't very different at all. (I need to check, I *think* I've turned up the torque settings one notch for her).
I've not messed with Assist Character (the time it takes to load the bike to the Shimano app means it's really not something to experiment with unless you're by yourself) but I was thinking of turning it down for boost as I don't like the way it rides.
Rider weight makes a difference to range on ebikes too.
I'm not fat but I'm also not light (15ish stone), and an average ride on my 630Wh Rise is around 23miles/3000ft. That's mostly using assist level 3 of 7 which is around 45nm (Trail mode essentially), and I usually get home with around 10-15% battery remaining. I do have Assist Character (how much it multiplies rider input) set to the highest level too though, so could easily get a bit more life out of the battery if I turned that down a bit.
That's interesting. The standard RS+ settings are an assist character of 5 on Trail and 9 on Boost (of 12 max I think?). I reckon that's whats killing your battery rather than your weight. I'm about 85kg in kit and my partner is about 65 - so twice the difference between you and me and our battery usage really isn't very different at all. (I need to check, I *think* I've turned up the torque settings one notch for her).
I've not messed with Assist Character (the time it takes to load the bike to the Shimano app means it's really not something to experiment with unless you're by yourself) but I was thinking of turning it down for boost as I don't like the way it rides.
I'll tag you in another thread as not to further derail this one 😊
Like a lot of these things, it really depends on how you plan to use it & whether you have nice friends or savages 😆
My favourite ebike system is still the TQ HPR60 with the 580 battery. It feels like a normal bike, just with a nice amount of extra support, it’s silent & it can get some impressive elevation (I can get close to 2000m on high).
I can ride with people on Tour+ with a Bosch (pre latest updates) easily & can with a bit of effort manage a ride with them in EMTB+, but I am working for it.
I think it helps I’m on a ~18.5kg bike with it, which is just a really good bike, full stop.
For reference, I’ve ridden many Gen5 Bosch bikes (still have one) & we also have M1 & M2S Avinox bikes in the garage too, which are also very very good bikes in their own right, just scary fast up as well as down.
If you can get past the seat post insertion, the Mondrakers get very well reviewed everywhere.
@Hobnob that's good to hear as that exact combo is more than likely my next bike - HPR60 and the medium sized 580wh battery (to replace my Levo SL).
Trek Fuel LX, Propain Sresh SL, or maybe if i sell a kidney a Yeti MTE.
Same Bosch motor. Same class. Orbea is more upright, better for trails. Santa Cruz is slacker, better for descents. Both solid.
Also look at Trek Rail or Specialized Turbo Levo alloy. Don't sleep on Brose motors. They are smooth.
Skip the 6 month wait. Ride now. Pick the one that looks cooler. Geometry feel is personal. Spec sheets don't tell you how it fits. Test ride if you can. You will be happy with either. Send it.
@Hobnob that's good to hear as that exact combo is more than likely my next bike - HPR60 and the medium sized 580wh battery (to replace my Levo SL).
Trek Fuel LX, Propain Sresh SL, or maybe if i sell a kidney a Yeti MTE.
I can probably provide some context there, as I had an MTe, which unfortunately got stolen, which I ended up replacing with the Fuel+ EX. In terms of ride I would genuinely be splitting hairs, they are both really, really good bikes (some of the best I have ridden, regardless of whether they have a motor or not), but the integration of the motor/battery is way better on the Trek & less susceptible to UK weather.
Also you are way less likely to be burnt on the warranty with Trek, given Yeti’s reputation 😆
I have a Vala AL, yes, it's heavy to pick up over fences, but what a fantastic bike. Super confidence-inspiring and amazing kit straight out of the box.
I get a similar range and battery usage to my boyfriend on his Yeti Lte 800wH and his brother on an Orbea Wild 800wH, but i'm 73kg compared to them at 90kg ish. Also, i don't just rinse turbo mode.
I do have the range extender for longer days but i more often than not don't need it.
