Lighter weight eMTB options?*
Mrs a11y currently rides a full-power Cube eMTB with a gen4 Bosch CX (85Nm, 600w peak) and 625Wh battery but struggles with its near-26kg weight. It was inherited from her late dad so not her choice. Great for towing kids up fireroads etc but she’s not comfortable descending on it and considering replacing with something that rides “more like a normal MTB”. She’s seen how I ride my own 20.5kg Heckler SL and wants a bit of that…
In true STW-style my first thought was a Heckler SL. And although my motor/battery has been faultless in 1.5yrs or riding so far, I’m hesitant about another Fazua bike in the family. Am I worrying unnecessarily about Fazua support going forward?
Or would an alternative with the Bosch SX - 60Nm, 600W peak, 400Wh battery - such as the Norco Fluid VLT or Cube AMS One44 400Wh be a more sensible choice? Bosch is more common and appears to have more aftermarket support options than Fazua, but I’m struggling to ignore the Heckler SL.
The above bikes I’ve listed are all sub-£4k, sub-20kg, 140-150mm travel eMTBs. I've only singled out those three because a mate has the Cube and rates it highly (I’m not fully convinced), I know the Heckler SL well, and the Norco reviews well. Plus, importantly, I’ve found deals on all. There’ll be others not on my radar and I’d welcome suggestions that fit that criteria. Anything less powerful / with significantly less battery capacity than my Heckler SL (60Nm, 450w peak, 430Wh) not an option.
Thoughts?
* An Amflow PR is hard to ignore for a sub-£4k eMTB but we’ve ruled it out due to weight – with the posher Amflow PL weighing a real-world 21.3kg, a real-world 23.5kg Amflow PR holds little appeal.
this bike would require a range extender or spare battery to boost the battery size as its 360 standard. But would still be under £4k. Only other one I can think of.
it has 50nm and weighs 19kg. I’ve had a couple of rides on mine now and am very happy with it. Motor is much more natural feeling than multi old Levo sl.
Chris
The Cube AMS One44 or the Norco Fluid VLT would have been my suggestions, along with the Orbea Rise SL H30 (EP600 RS motor with 54Nm is RS mode and 85Nm in RS+ and a 540Wh battery) which is under budget and should be under 20kg in small/medium.
Oh, you seem to have written off Shimano motors, so I shall delete my suggestions and move on. 🙂
I have the CF9 and really like it.
I've had a good experience with my Trek Fuel EXE - Since i got mine theyve brought out a new version with a bit moe power/battery
Mine is perfect for a couple of hours blast which is all i really have time for at the moment but you can dial the power down and still do a bigger trip if requried.
Might be some deals on the older model still kicking around too
The Trek Fuel + with the updated TQ motor is around that ball park for price and weight I think. Decent reviews as well.
this bike would require a range extender or spare battery to boost the battery size as its 360 standard. But would still be under £4k. Only other one I can think of.
Can't see a link?
The Cube AMS One44 or the Norco Fluid VLT would have been my suggestions, along with the Orbea Rise SL H30 (EP600 RS motor with 54Nm is RS mode and 85Nm in RS+ and a 540Wh battery) which is under budget and should be under 20kg in small/medium.
I'd not thought to look at Orbea, thanks. Will be looking at size larges as she's around 177cm.
Oh, you seem to have written off Shimano motors, so I shall delete my suggestions and move on. 🙂
Not at all, just hadn't given them any thought! I'm really not that familiar with everything that's out there in eMTB land.
I have the CF9 and really like it.
Canyon... I'll take a look. Couple in my riding group, one likes them but I believe another had major customer service issues with Canyon themselves which puts me off, especially with an eMTB.
I've had a good experience with my Trek Fuel EXE - Since i got mine theyve brought out a new version with a bit moe power/battery
The Trek Fuel + with the updated TQ motor is around that ball park for price and weight I think. Decent reviews as well.
I've ruled Trek out on basis of feedback from a bike mechanic friend who no longer refers to them simple as 'Treks' but as '****ing Treks'. Obviously not a blanket experience but it's enough to put me off them.
Giant Trance E? You can get a top of the range one from a couple of years ago for 3.5k from Giant's website or through a dealer.
Light, full power, 400w battery and comes with a 200w range extender
Giant Trance E? You can get a top of the range one from a couple of years ago for 3.5k from Giant's website or through a dealer.
Light, full power, 400w battery and comes with a 200w range extender
Sorry, one stipulation I should've made clear was absolutely no Giants. Not after the Giant warranty debacle. Shame as I owned a couple of Reigns in the past which I liked.
I'd not thought to look at Orbea, thanks. Will be looking at size larges as she's around 177cm.
177cm would but her at the top end of a medium or middle of a large according to Orbea's size guide (see below). I'm a bawhair over 180cm on a large Rise LT and it's perfect. I think that weighs just over 20kg but that's with the 630Wh battery, heavier duty tyres and longer fork (160mm Fox 36 Performance). So, a large SL should be lighter. To be honest though, I don't feel the weight of mine when riding it or even moving it around.
There is a better spec'd H10 version of the SL, but that would be pushing your budget at £4799. Then there's also the M-series carbon models, but the cheapest I can find one of those is £4999.
As for the Shimano motors... this place will service them and Shimano themselves are meant to be pretty good for free replacements just outside of the warranty period, plus they offer a sliding scale discount on new motors if you're beyond their grace period.
I really like my EP801-RS, but I should add I've never used anything else other than one of those city bikes or my mates folding bike with a Bafang Hub motor.
I'm a bawhair over 180cm on a large Rise LT and it's perfect. I think that weighs just over 20kg but that's with the 630Wh battery, heavier duty tyres and longer fork (160mm Fox 36 Performance). So, a large SL should be lighter. To be honest though, I don't feel the weight of mine when riding it or even moving it around.
I only notice the extra weight of my 20.5kg Heckler SL when moving it around or loading the van. Rode it 4 days solid last week on trails I'd normally use my Geometron for (Tweed Valley off-piste stuff) and didn't treat it any differently. Mrs a11y's 26kg Cube though, yikes. I don't call it The Beast for nothing - the Cube that is...
As for the Shimano motors... this place will service them and Shimano themselves are meant to be pretty good for free replacements just outside of the warranty period, plus they offer a sliding scale discount on new motors if you're beyond their grace period.
Bosch and Shimano appear to be the best supported brands for post-warranty repairs and servicing. There's not the same support currently for Fazua 😐
Large you say...
Now on the shortlist, thanks. Not sure how to justify the extra £700 over the Norco to Mrs a11y for that though! I really like it.
After a trek exe 50 I went. Cube AMS Hybrid One44 C:68X SLT 400
imho - really does feel and act 16kg, sx is noticeably more than the exe and feels livelier , large is £4k at winstanleys (*check spec, as this light has some costs - 5 bar display, up/down only dropper, 180mm brakes) , but it’s by far the most bike like e-bike I’ve tried.
I was going to mention the Orbea Rise - I had a quick go on my brother's. Felt like a really sorted bike. Power didn't feel reduced (compared to my Cannondale Moterra SL (the BEST lightweight eMTB out there, of course)), but I did only ride it on the flat. His was a bit heavier than my Cannondale, but it's the low end alu one.
After a trek exe 50 I went. Cube AMS Hybrid One44 C:68X SLT 400
imho - really does feel and act 16kg, sx is noticeably more than the exe and feels livelier , large is £4k at winstanleys (*check spec, as this light has some costs - 5 bar display, up/down only dropper, 180mm brakes) , but it’s by far the most bike like e-bike I’ve tried.
Oooft, bling spec. I was looking at a lower spec version at Pauls but that's one hell of a spec. I like the small display and simple controller approach, probably as I'm used to similar with my Fazua Ride60. I wasn't even aware of that 2-position dropper - brings back memories of my original Gravity Dropper.
I was going to mention the Orbea Rise - I had a quick go on my brother's. Felt like a really sorted bike. Power didn't feel reduced (compared to my Cannondale Moterra SL (the BEST lightweight eMTB out there, of course)), but I did only ride it on the flat. His was a bit heavier than my Cannondale, but it's the low end alu one.
Any idea of a real-world weight for your Moterra SL? I see quoted "as low as 20.6kg" - that's damn impressive for the power and capacity.
Pretty sure mine's about 19kg. It's had a few upgrades. Doesn't have the giganticus rear much for one thing.
Got to say, I've found Fazua (and the bike shop I bought from Heckler SL) to be brilliant with warranties. I've been relatively unlucky with motors and I reckon I've only lost maybe 2 days of riding over 18 months despite 3 motor changes.
I'm TQ 60 curious though. I do get the impression that the small and light motors (Fazua and TQ) are harder to service and a bit less reliable than bigger, heavier motors (Bosch SX or detuned Shimano EP801).
I really don't want a full power ebike purely die to the weight. I'm holding off going there until solid state batteries are a thing as they should enable lighter bikes for more battery.
The thing that makes me TQ curious is the potential of an "official" range extender (still a bit annoyed with Fazua about that but not quite willing to risk the remainder of my warranty on the Italian range extender). Experience with some Liv ebikes that friends ride is that they are just as unreliable as Fazua and worse customer support.
I recently bought a Norco Fluid VLT C2 when Winstanleys had them at a silly price. The bike rides much more engagingly than my previous Orbea Rise. It feels like a great bike that happens to have a motor.
I'm also TQ60 curious but would want to see how the reliability stacks up.
RM cycles, along with Merlin, seem to have a lot of cut price Heckler SL bikes available if you'd prefer warranty over spec.
Pretty sure mine's about 19kg. It's had a few upgrades. Doesn't have the giganticus rear much for one thing.
Thanks. That power at that weight with that geometry/intention is quite a package. I've found an SL 2 spec at £4k(ish) so it's on her list. I recently bought 2 x Cannondales from there for the mini a11ys, very impressed with the quality of the bikes.
Got to say, I've found Fazua (and the bike shop I bought from Heckler SL) to be brilliant with warranties. I've been relatively unlucky with motors and I reckon I've only lost maybe 2 days of riding over 18 months despite 3 motor changes.
I'm TQ 60 curious though. I do get the impression that the small and light motors (Fazua and TQ) are harder to service and a bit less reliable than bigger, heavier motors (Bosch SX or detuned Shimano EP801).
I really don't want a full power ebike purely die to the weight. I'm holding off going there until solid state batteries are a thing as they should enable lighter bikes for more battery.
The thing that makes me TQ curious is the potential of an "official" range extender (still a bit annoyed with Fazua about that but not quite willing to risk the remainder of my warranty on the Italian range extender). Experience with some Liv ebikes that friends ride is that they are just as unreliable as Fazua and worse customer support.
I've been lucky with 100% reliability in my 18 months although it's perhaps not had as much use as some - it's not my most ridden MTB. If you don't mind saying, who's the shop you bought yours from and has been brilliant with warranty? (asking as IIRC you're roughly the same area as me). Mine was from Stif... I'd happily have another Fazua-equipped bike but also still being a bit annoyed about the range extender debacle.
I recently bought a Norco Fluid VLT C2 when Winstanleys had them at a silly price. The bike rides much more engagingly than my previous Orbea Rise. It feels like a great bike that happens to have a motor.
Chatted through options with Mrs a11y last night and it's the Norco and the Heckler SL that take her fancy over the Cube ("possibly too trail-orientated") or Whyte ("I'd rather spend less"). Basically, she wanted a motorised version of her Deviate Highlander which is a V1 with the short-travel 140mm linkage, i.e. something with more of a AM/enduro slant than XC/trail.
RM cycles, along with Merlin, seem to have a lot of cut price Heckler SL bikes available if you'd prefer warranty over spec.
I selfishly wasn't posting the links to the deals I've found - but yes, unfortunately for secondhand sellers I'd take a lower-spec new with warranty over used for £3.5k (yellow in size large 😀 ). That's despite almost all of my own non-eMTB bike purchases being used, it's the e-bike warranty aspect that'd make me go new over used.
That power at that weight with that geometry/intention is quite a package. I've found an SL 2 spec at £4k(ish) so it's on her list
Wow, that's quite a buy (great colour)! My SL1 was about that price, 2nd hand, but with only 100 miles on it. I've loved it. But have ordered a £4k Amflow 😬
Merida e One Sixty SL? Possibly just a bit too heavy at closer to 21kg but well reviewed.
The Mondraker Dune R comes in at a claimed 20kg.
Both have more travel than what you've listed (160-165mm) but there's plenty of opportunity for weight savings if desired over time.
All these replies have shown my knowledge of bike options is far less than I thought. More choices that I may or may not have found in my own time if I hadn't asked, so thanks 😀
I'm leaving it with Mrs a11y. Last night she was swaying towards the £3.5k Heckler SL, £3.3k Norco Fluid VLT or (at a push) the £4k Moterra SL2, but that could easily change. She still has doubts about dropping to a lower-powered eMTB, despite knowing the benefit the lower weight would have for her - Moterra SL appears to be the answer to that IMO.
It would be nice is someone could buy that discounted Whyte. I’ve had it in and out of my basket about a dozen times this past couple of days 🤣
I've got a 2022 Orbea Rise , 3 years old Shimano motor started making grumbling noises. Got it sent back to Madison, they said the noise was normal wear and tear but they looked deeper into the motor and to quote " found some worrying concerns" 🤔to that end they sent a brand new motor with a 2 year warranty. Can't argue with that 👍
I was intrigued what the concerns were but I was told they wouldn't tell me because of commercial integrity 🤔
I've had a trek fuel exe for about 4 years now, the tq system has not been entirely reliable. I've lost track of how many motors I've had, I'm on either motor 5 or 6 now.
The new hpr60 doesn't seem any more reliable than the 50,as I'm on my second one of those.
Aside from reliability, it's a good bike.
I've got a 2022 Orbea Rise , 3 years old Shimano motor started making grumbling noises. Got it sent back to Madison, they said the noise was normal wear and tear but they looked deeper into the motor and to quote " found some worrying concerns" 🤔to that end they sent a brand new motor with a 2 year warranty. Can't argue with that 👍
I was intrigued what the concerns were but I was told they wouldn't tell me because of commercial integrity 🤔
The hamster died 😀
That's good to know that replacement motors get an additional 2 year warranty though. I've only 3 months / 258 miles on my Rise so hopefully it won't need looked at for a good while.
Only issue I've had was on the last ride it seemed to drop it's power output as I pedalled like buggery towards and up and over rock feature. I think I may have been in too low a gear though, so cadence was perhaps too high for the assistance.
What were the grumbling noises in yours like?
I'm with @rockhopper70... I bought a Canyon Neuron OnFly CF7, and it's a great bike for all the reasons he says and more...
I am, however, about to sell mine though (size large, I'm 1m78, fits perfectly)... The only reason...? I have managed to secure a Whyte ELyte 140 Works for a crazy deal. The 2 are very similar granted, geometry almost identical, motor systems are identical, but I can stretch the ELyte up to 150 rear travel and 160 front where the Canyon is 140 travel and I wanted the ability to run a range extender AND a bottle in the frame at the same time...
For anyone interested, my CF7 has 238 miles on the clock, will come with mostly brand new components (I swapped out the drivetrain, wheels, forks etc. from new, and will put originals back on for sale), and is in fantastic condition... I can even do a deal on it with a range extender too, should that be required... 👍🏻
How it looks currently (though obviously it will be cleaned and returned to stock, or as close as, for sale)...
Price will be keen... Will honour any warranty for an STW buyer... PM me if of any interest...
Canyon... I'll take a look. Couple in my riding group, one likes them but I believe another had major customer service issues with Canyon themselves which puts me off, especially with an eMTB.
The major issues with Canyon eMTB's were all to do with the Spectral On and the 3rd party batteries that they used paired with a Shimano EP8 motor... Bosch doesn't allow use of 3rd party batteries, you're safer buying a Bosch powered eBike 2nd hand than most anyway I'd say regardless of the brand of frame it's fitted to.
@a11y just seen that you've PM'ed me, but for reasons I can't fathom, STW is locking my out of my profile, messages etc. right now...
Email me if you would... m b o n n e s @ the usual gmail directory... 👍🏻
@mboy, nope wasn't me! But I'll mention this to Mrs a11y and will e-mail (rather than even try to PM) if she's interested.
IIRC the issue a riding buddy had was on a regular Canyon, not an eMTB, but I only know about it third-hand and not any of the detail.
Cycle Highlands. Rich and the team are brilliant. So much so, I travel to them 2 hours away rather than go more local.
@citizenlee the sort of noise you get when BB bearings start wearing out on a normal bike , I didn't want the motor to suddenly shit itself .
FTO a11y - just pmed you, hope the system is working. cheers 🙂
@desperatebicycle, received and replied 🙂
Still no decision made by Mrs a11y. Partly we wonder what will happen to eMTB prices over the next few months with the £4k Amflow being a thing. Bit of a market disrupter, even if that bike isn't specifically what we're looking for.
@desperatebicycle, received and replied 🙂
Still no decision made by Mrs a11y. Partly we wonder what will happen to eMTB prices over the next few months with the £4k Amflow being a thing. Bit of a market disrupter, even if that bike isn't specifically what we're looking for.
Was thinking the same having been looking at e-bikes today. Outside the discounted old stock the Amflow at £4k does make most others look very expensive, including their next model up.
Thanks for the info a11y - re: ibksport.uk - Colleague ordered an Orbea last week, turned up today. He's well chuffed 🙂 (I woulda replied on messages, but it's had a revamp and couldn't find the old ones)
I've ruled Trek out on basis of feedback from a bike mechanic friend who no longer refers to them simple as 'Treks' but as '****ing Treks'. Obviously not a blanket experience but it's enough to put me off them.
FWIW, I bought my Trek eBike because of glowing reports from LBS on Trek's approach to warranty claims
Well, thanks to this thread. I got myself a Haibike Lyke CF10 with the Fazua 60.
I was looking at upgrading my trail bike, then realised a lightweight emtb is possible for the same money after reading this thread.
With my £3k budget, I can get either the Fuel exe or if I stretched a bit, the fluid VLT. Then a deal on the Lyke came through an Ad.
I remember reading the mag's review on it 2 years ago thinking it would be ideal for me but way too expensive for what it is, but now at £2.9k, it's a no brainer.
The components are not very good but I'm just transferring most things from my current bike. It is impressively light @18kg even in its current form. Will let you know how I get on once I have a chance to swap the components and have a ride over the weekend.