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After a visit from the Cancer Fairy my days of riding analogue bikes are over.
I am therefore looking at an e-bike as a way of keeping riding.
I have an Atherton A130 (now sadly for sale in the classifieds) that I love, so the obvious choice is the S170e. There are a few things that concern me.
1- given the trails I ride and the type of riding I do, it might feel overbiked. I like trails and enduro, not uplift or gravity stuff.
2 - at 6ft 2 I am not keen on a mullet, having sold my Bronson a few years ago because I felt that the back wheel was too small.
The alternative is a Mondraker Crafty which is 29, 150/160 travel.
The Atherton has the ‘latest and greatest’ Avinox, but that feels too powerful and unnatural. The Mondraker has the Bosch CX5 which feels more natural but is certainly not the motor of the moment.
Due to some healthy discounts, I can get a very high spec Mondraker for less than a lower spec Atherton. I was really drawn to the A series Atherton (ti/carbon) but the S series appeals less due to the materials and suspension.
Since this is my first e-bike, I am concerned about rapid obsolescence and suspect that the Atherton will stay current for longer than the Mondraker.
I am probably not comparing apples with apples, and I have even considered a lite e-bike like a Yeti MTe but given my new physical capability I think that I need a full fat e-bike.
Any advice gratefully received, particularly from anybody that either owns or has experience of either (and I appreciate that Atherton are not that common yet). And even if you don’t but have been through the e-bike purchase decision, any insight would be very much appreciated.
I think if the A130 was the right bike for you then you're probably right that the Atherton ebike might not be the right choice .
My local shop had the forbidden druid e in stock and it is a lovely looking thing and might be less gravity focused than the Atherton . I have only heard good things about the Santa Cruz Vala which has the Bosch motor which has a good support network i believe. I'm a bit of a fan boy and I know the looks aren't to everyone's taste but I quite like the cotic although is the motor on it pretty old now ?
I think the rapid obsolescence thing is probably only an issue if you get caught up in the max power output stuff . If the bike you choose gives you enough assistance that you can enjoy your ride and a battery big enough that you dont get range anxiety then you dont need to worry about it .
Product cycles on the Chinese stuff is 12-18 months at the moment, such is the rate of development. If you are worried about buying something that will be obsolete soon, I’d be looking to western brands
My two top points for consideration of buying an EBike, can you get it from a physical shop as they can have warranty issues and be honest with yourself about the type of riding you will be doing on it .As @tomhoward has mentioned Chinese development is so rapid it could be a motor gearbox combo before you know it . Companies like Bosch seem to take a more measured approach to innovation.
Isn't the Vala a mullet ?
Great to hear you’re planning to continue riding. Sorry to hear the reason for your change of bike type.
IDK, I’d go for the Atherton. It was seeing an S170 at Bespoked that prompted me to consider, test, and get an A150. I imagine the feeling of being ‘over biked’ will pass quickly.
Enjoy choosing and riding!
Unless you are in an arms race, I wouldn’t worry about staying current; my focus would be fun and even many generations ago e-bikes are still brilliant fun!
I would suggest overbiked isn’t really a thing on e-bikes, you spend a lot more time going up and down so your body will REALLY appreciate the extra suspension, more comfort, more capable and very enjoyable.
Get a bike you like the sizing of and local is good so you have the support, most bikes are pretty awesome now, so as long as you do a bit of research, it’s hard to go wrong. And the Bosch Gen 5 is brilliant, more than enough for anything I’d think of doing, always turned down on my bike and still offers more than enough. 🙂
Happy hunting!
I wouldn’t worry about obsolescence (unless you do group rides where everyone wants to show off that they’ve got the most powerful motor and biggest battery - but who’d want to ride with people like that?!)
And when you’ve got the power and weight of an ebike the extra travel rarely seems a downside whilst the mullet wheels do seems to help a lot with making the cornering more natural.
I think the support of an LBS with a good reputation for dealing with e-bikes adds a lot of value, especially if the ebike is the only bike you can ride so you don’t want it to be out of action for weeks with a fault.
If the A130 suits your riding, there’s little reason to buy a long travel tank as your ebike. Get something else with about 140mm of travel to use for 3 years… hope for Atherton to add another ebike to their range that could be your following bike.
I’ve been riding a crafty for about 8 months now, and I just love it. Personally, I think that 150/160 travel seems to be a real sweet spot for UK riding. I love the Bosch motor and the whole Bosch eco system. I have no problem with Avinox, which is certainly the latest and greatest. But I’d be very happy buying another Bosch powered bike tomorrow.
I also own a Mondraker Neat, which is much more lightweight, with an TQ motor. And it’s a wonderful bike. But I ride the higher powered, heavier Crafty 99% of the time.
Having said all of that, im sure that the Atherton is a fab bike. And I’ve not heard anyone say anything bad about the Avinox. I have a strong feeling that either bike will be excellent.im just saying that I wouldn’t fear buying a Bosch. 120NM is a hell of a lot of power.
If your health is making you consider an Ebike for pedalling then also consider the full power big battery ones can weigh a metric ton and do need some muscle to hustle, get over gates, put on bike rack etc. so maybe a smaller battery and optional extender may work, which is best served by Bosch.
1- given the trails I ride and the type of riding I do, it might feel overbiked. I like trails and enduro, not uplift or gravity stuff.
My 'spare' ebike that I've had for 7-8 years is 28kgs (with range extender, big tyres and heavy duty tubes) has 180mm travel each end and I've never really felt overbiked even riding tame singletrack. If it was a leg powered bike with those stats, it would more than likely fee very overbiked
Thanks for the advice all. Keep it coming.
I have considered the Vala, but it is not particularly good value (What? A Santa Cruz? Not good value? Who knew?!) and also a mullet. I liked my Bronson but didn't love it and the Vala is basically a 4 bar version of the Bronson. Having said that, I know that Santa Cruz have excellent backup and warranty.
I have been widely advised that despite the excitement over Avinox, the Bosch ecosystem is well supported and plenty of power. I don't want to be totally divorced from the feeling of pedalling. Seems like there is a lot of love for Bosch around here.
The common theme about buying from a local bike shop is great advice thank you. I am a very competent home mechanic and have always built my bikes from scratch and curated parts from the internet. However, I can really see the benefit of close local support on this one, and my LBS have been very generous with their advice, so they are getting the sale (unless I end up going Atherton of course!).
And great advice on humping the heavy lump around Scruff. I have used a roof mounted carrier for most of my riding life, but I might need to reconsider that. Feels like a tow bar version is in my near future!
Can you test ride any? Although they’re similar to normal bikes the extra weight and power does change the feel quite a bit.
Are you more of a solo or group rider?
Putting an ebike on the roof is a pretty horrible job - I’m not that old and lift a fair bit in the gym and it’s still not easy…
Trouble is, I can't ride for 3 months, drive for 2 months or lift anything more than 2kgs for 3 months!
I am happy to take the plunge based on recommendation and in my experience there is no such thing as a bad bike from the big brands these days. Both the Atherton and Mondraker get great reviews.
I tend to be more of a solo rider, or with a friend, so it's not about keeping up with an arms race in a group or feeling overpowered. Just a way of me getting some miles in and enjoying my riding again when this is all over.
**** cancer!
While it's great to distract yourself with ideas of a new bike, with ebikes these days it seems that waiting longer always pays off... the shortages are gone... so perhaps wait and buy only once you're ready to ride? Who knows what bargains will be available by then, and what new bikes will be available or on the horizon (maybe even a lighter Atherton will be shown off in the meantime).
I have the 2026 crafty RR and it's a very capable bike. I've just done a couple of Golfie trails and the bike was great, unlike the rider☹️The latest Bosch updates have given the motor a healthy boost, although I haven't set mine to full power as it can sometimes work against you.
Removal battery is a massive bonus if you go away cycling.
Also the range extender is a welcome addition.
My issue with DJI is that they soon seem to stop doing updates to their gear once it's out of warranty.
I don't want to be totally divorced from the feeling of pedalling.
How much distance do you usually cover?
Might be worth considering bikes with the Bosch SX or TQ HRP60 motors. Lighter and more natural feeling than full fat bikes, obviously at the expense of range and power/assistance.
I think Trek are doing some heavy e-bike discounts at the moment as they have bikes with the new and unannounced TQ 120nm motor coming towards the end of the year/start of next (they've appeared for pre-order with dealers, but not public yet).
Another Crafty (S) owner here. I've had it a couple of months and all good so far. It rides quite light, certainly lighter than my previous Focus. The Bosch motor has more power than you can use in most situations and is nice and quiet. Battery life from the 800W battery is excellent, but I am a skinny old sod. Got it from MTB Monster for a substantial discount.
The Atherton is a big travel bike, I’m not sure I’d want one as my only ride with that much travel.
I can speak from experience as my big bike is a Dreadnought E & wouldn’t want that as my only choice.
The Mondrakers are very ‘Mondraker’ in that they are designed by idiots if you have to take the thing apart to replace bearings, etc.
I have been widely advised that despite the excitement over Avinox, the Bosch ecosystem is well supported and plenty of power. I don't want to be totally divorced from the feeling of pedalling. Seems like there is a lot of love for Bosch around here.
Personally, having had various generations of Bosch bikes (and still having a Gen5 in the garage) I would have to think very long & hard about buying another over an Avinox bike now, especially given that most of the new interesting bikes are only coming with an Avinox drive system.
Yes if you ride them in stock settings they are bonkers fast & powerful but they can be tuned in a way & at a level that you can’t with Bosch, because they lock them down so much. Mine delivers is power now much more in line with my TQ60 bike (more effort = more power) rather than no effort & all the power.
The range on them detuned is very impressive, it’s noticeably quieter up than the Bosch, on a par on the way down, has significantly smaller form factor & IMO is generally an all round better package.
Right now, I’d struggle to look past the Whyte Karve RS for a mid travel bike. cheap compared to most & plenty of scope to upgrade bits over time.
I'm loving my friend's Bullit, and he keep pointing me towards great deal on them, due to the stupidity of the market chasing power figures. He doesn't even ride that with the 120Nm enabled, as he found it too much, so why would 150 be useful?. It's significantly lighter than my Gen 3 Levo (which is not heavy), the 600w battery last for ages, as the Bosch system does seem to be more efficient. I'd look closely at the Vala, if you still feel you don't need the 170mm travel... and forget worrying over the mullet, it much better than 29er's all round for handling, and definitely doesn't feel like it's compromise the bike. I test a mullet and went back to my full 29er and after going back I knew I had to change it.
I tired a Crafty. It's a lovely looking bike if that matters! Seatpost insertion was pretty short tho especially for those of us of normal size but short of leg.
"Trouble is, I can't ride for 3 months, drive for 2 months or lift anything more than 2kgs for 3 months!"
Keep browsing/investigating as a a hopefully nice distraction but definitely hold fire until you're ready to test ride some bikes. In absolute terms even full-fat ebikes aren't that heavy but because they're so big with spinny things at both ends they're incredibly annoying to manhandle into/onto cars and when up to full speed on a descent they can require a LOT more rider input to turn quickly. I suspect you may prefer a lower power and shorter travel and lighter ebike than the full power 150mm+ monster which you'd need for a fast-moving winch and plummet group.
Sorry to hear about your Cancer diagnosis @Solarider
If it's any consolation, I'm coming up to 4yrs in remission myself in October... 2yrs off a bike due to recovery from various surgeries (mine was bowel cancer, and the surgeries invasive as you can imagine), when I got back on a bike I absolutely needed a full fat eBike so I feel your pain...
Anyway...
Mondraker Crafty is an awesome bike. I've been on one for just over a year now. Just sold it, but am replacing it with another as there really isn't anything else out there I want to replace it with. It just rides so damned well everywhere! Fantastic all rounder... And the Gen5 Bosch motor is fantastic, superbly efficient. I rode a Zendit with the Avinox M2S motor the other day briefly and really didn't like the motor... So I've ordered another Crafty!
He doesn't even ride that with the 120Nm enabled, as he found it too much, so why would 150 be useful?
Rarely ride my Gen5 Bosch above 70Nm... Even then it's only at 85Nm... 100Nm feels stupid. I haven't even tried it at 120Nm!
and forget worrying over the mullet, it much better than 29er's all round for handling, and definitely doesn't feel like it's compromise the bike
HIGHLY subjective, and actually mullet is far more of a compromise... The areas where mullet wins are on big, long travel bikes where rear wheel clearance can start to become an issue, and on super tight techy trails where the smaller rear wheel makes it very slightly easier to "steer with the rear" as there is simply less grip...
Otherwise full 29er wins out time and time again... Mullet has far more to do with it simply being a slightly stronger wheel as it's smaller on big heavy eBikes with 150kg+ system weights. The smaller rear wheel has less grip (traction, cornering, braking, all of the above) due to the smaller contact patch, and though many newer bikes are realising the validity of longer chainstays even with a 27.5" wheel, the old "wisdom" was that the smaller rear wheel allowed a shorter chainstay, which on modern bikes with wheelbases approaching 1300mm long makes for some VERY unbalanced handling (Gen4 Levo take note!!!)...
"The areas where mullet wins are on big, long travel bikes where rear wheel clearance can start to become an issue, and on super tight techy trails where the smaller rear wheel makes it very slightly easier to "steer with the rear" as there is simply less grip..."
I think there's more to it than that - it's easier to tip a mullet bike on its side, quicker to initiate a turn, feels like less of a straight-lining monster truck. Full 29 carries more speed, so wins on flatter trails especially rough ones. At 150mm+ on the back I'd rather have a mullet.
I think there's more to it than that - it's easier to tip a mullet bike on its side, quicker to initiate a turn, feels like less of a straight-lining monster truck.
It's a LOT more subtle than you think it is... More like the difference between 44 and 51mm offset forks... And much like when, a decade ago, 29ers suddenly caught the limelight but everyone was pushing the 51mm offset fork to make them turn quicker or feel "less of a monster truck", 5 years later everyone had ditched 51mm offset forks preferring the stability that the 44mm offset afforded the rider at speed...
Mullet is this decade's 51mm offset fork IMO... Which isn't to say that they don't have their place, but I just think for most people most of the time, that little bit more stability (especially in high speed corners) is that much more beneficial than a slight improvement in turn in speed.
As ever... Geometry is a lot more important than the subtle difference in rear wheel size... There's a bit in this video (well worth watching the whole thing to be honest anyway, it's very insightful) about why Mondraker stuck with full 29er for the Crafty despite market pressures...
Just got an Email from Ibis bikes about the new Oso being available now . The trail version is full 29er with a Bosch motor . The new version is a lot more normal looking than the original version . Might be worth a look .
interesting video that, thanks.
Consensus seems to be that I should wait until I can actually walk and move again before making a choice, and that having an e-bike waiting for me will just demotivate me every day that I can't ride it.
Having said that, when the time comes, the Crafty feels like the right choice.
The Atherton has the ‘latest and greatest’ Avinox, but that feels too powerful and unnatural. The Mondraker has the Bosch CX5 which feels more natural but is certainly not the motor of the moment.
You can, and most people do, tune the Avinox down so that it's much more like any of the other motors. It's light, competitively priced, has great software and by all accounts rides really well. Someone I know did a 1500w all the time ride on their Atherton and burnt the battery in less than 10 miles.
Ultimately if you're riding in a group and not racing then the person with the highest power settings just gets to the top of the hill quicker (even more so if they've derestricted their bike) and then has to either bugger off on their own or wait for everyone else to catch up.
Earlier this year I got a XL Mondraker Crafty R. Am 6' 5", wanted proper tall person geo (stack, reach, chain stay length, angles etc), and for that it's brilliant. use a 210 post with Switchgrade installed and have 2-3cm to spare. Also do NOT like mullet mostly for the way the smaller wheel hangs doing anything remotely tech climbing wise, or rolling on rougher terrain. Will admit mullet turns in a bit easier, but then previous eeb also had a lower BB which may have something to do with it.
Anyway, Mondraker is a really fun bike. love it. Highly recommend, although for proper maintenance it is indeed designed a bit by idiots (compared to say, my G1, which is designed by engineers for engineers and is glorious for it). will also mention my '25 model year frame failed at the seat stay pivot points, which was immediately warranty replaced with a '26 model yr frame with the nice bonus of a Kiox 400. that frame seems good so far 🤞
Bosch Gen 5, coming from 3.5yrs on a 2022 Giant Reign E+ with the Yamaha, feels absolutely glorious in comparison. Yes, Avinox has more power, but the + modes (Eco+, tour+, MTB+) feel absolutely fantastic. To borrow Speccy's slogan: You, but more. The giant and other previous gen motors feel horribly dead by comparison. this is not power related, I'm doing 90% of riding at 425w power and 70nm torque. it's all the refinements and sensor gubbins. Every ride I get home, get off the bike, and think - wow, bloody brilliant.
Note I can also ride the Moonraker 🙂 with range extended in place, a 750ml fidlock bottle in the 'under top tube' mount, and still have space to strap a jacket or whatever into front triangle. not to be sniffed at just for practicality.
ebikes really should not sit in the same categories as analog bikes. The motor assist eliminates that need to compromise on the usual travel choice we would usually have to make in my opinion.
The weight between the mondraker and atherton isn't going to be a lot and the travel difference isn't going to be noticeable until you need it.
If you like you existing atherton then the new emtb version of that wouldn't leave you disappointed.
More importantly I hope you get well soon...
"Geometry is a lot more important than the subtle difference in rear wheel size..."
I don't think you can separate the two. A 27.5" wheel is 39mm smaller than a 29" wheel. Change any dimension on a bike by 39mm and it's a big deal. Keep everything the same and you still have the axle spinning 19.5mm lower vs the BB and that changes the feel. And it changes the axle path of the suspension (usually for the better). And then you've got all the stuff regarding the the relationship between tyre shape in three dimensions and its natural turn radius vs lean angle.
I like slack head angles, I like short offset forks, I like fairly long reach/wheelbase and fairly low BBs, I like big front wheels, all of which make a bike more stable - but I don't want a bike to be too long or slack or low because I do need to be able to make it turn! In an ideal world I'd have a big rear wheel on rougher or flatter stuff and a smaller rear wheel on twistier or steeper or pumpier stuff but as I have to choose I'll have the big wheel when there's less rear travel to smooth out the rough and the smaller wheel when I've got more suspension to help out - I'd say 140mm is the point of indecision for me.
Interesting. I go for the opposite on by bikes... where big travel is useful, so is a bigger rear wheel. Where shorter travel is more fun, so is a smaller rear wheel. For me. All just personal preferences of course.
On an ebike, stability is normally baked in, if the extra weight is in the right place... so I'd swing towards the mullet. Not that I have an ebike, but I've spent time on a few... including development machines where we were playing with wheel options.
Hope things go well @solarider ... keep us updated ... and please resurrect this thread when it's time to splash the cash on the new bike.
Thanks Kelvin. Will do.
6 weeks since diagnosis. 2 weeks since surgery. 6 months of chemotherapy starts in 4 weeks time. Quite a whirlwind, particularly since the diagnosis was a total accident and I would have been gone in 6 months otherwise. Very sobering but determined to beat the bugger!
I am definitely veering towards the Mondraker but by the time I make the purchase the tech might have moved on again!
I don't think you can separate the two. A 27.5" wheel is 39mm smaller than a 29" wheel. Change any dimension on a bike by 39mm and it's a big deal. Keep everything the same and you still have the axle spinning 19.5mm lower vs the BB and that changes the feel.
Yeah, you can... Been done many times both by bike testers, and certain manufacturers (Geometron for a start!)
This is the last I'll say on this (not really the right thread), but you seem to want to do pedantry, so here goes...
The difference between 622 and 584 rim ERD's is 38mm... Half of which is 19mm...
The 38mm difference is irrelevant. The only difference in wheel size that the rider experiences when it comes to geometry (apart from tyre clearance when your ass is hanging off the back of the saddle on a super steep trail, which arguably can still be valid) is the 19mm difference in rear axle height... Which, if all of the rest of the geometry remains the same on a bike, isn't even a 19mm difference relatively speaking... Your BB isn't suddenly 19mm taller relative to the axle height (it would be if you changed BOTH wheels for 27.5, but we're keeping the front as a 29er here), as you now have different axle heights front to rear, and it's the height of the BB relative to this centreline (which if both wheels are the same size is parallel to the ground, with a smaller rear wheel, this line is now at a subtle angle to the ground) between the two axles that matters... On my Crafty with a 1280mm wheelbase and a 455mm chainstay, swapping the rear for a 27.5" wheel (and altering the shock position to keep the BB actual height the same, which can be done in conjunction with an offset shock bushing), the BB would now sit 12.25mm higher relative to a centreline drawn through both axles than it did previously, all other geometry identical (well, the chainstay might be 1-2mm shorter now, due to moving the wheel forward into its axle path slightly)... And it's THIS dimension that you are feeling... A taller BB height relative to the axle centres does help to make a bike turn in quicker... I remember Dan Stanton talking about this at length some time ago when people questioned why the original Sherpa had such a tall BB height compared to its competition, and he stated that this was a way in which to keep the handling sharper like that of a bike with smaller wheels... On more stop/start trails with super tight turns, this can potentially be perceived as an advantage (much like a longer offset fork, shorter chainstay or even a less grippy rear tyre might be).
Crucially here, the shorter the wheelbase, the more difference the smaller rear wheel will make. As the wheelbase grows, the difference in BB height will reduce relatively to the centreline through the axles, if the rear wheel is swapped out for a 27.5... Small differences mind!
All that I've stated above is assuming that we are taking into account for the smaller rear wheel in the geometry to keep everything else the same... All that most people do is just chuck a 27.5" rear wheel into an otherwise full 29er bike whilst doing nothing else, and all that happens is that they slacken the angles by around 0.8deg, reduce the actual BB height by half an inch, and shorten the reach figure and increase the stack height slightly too. Which mostly serves to make the bike more stable, not less!
And it changes the axle path of the suspension (usually for the better).
How do you claim that this is "usually for the better"...? Assuming we compensate for the 19mm difference in axle height, you're moving the axle forward in a typical spring curve all of 19mm and ending it slightly sooner... This would usually mean a bit more anti-squat at sag (debatable whether this was an improvement or not these days, especially on an eBike, but it would be a subtle difference at most) and you might get a tiny bit more travel for a given shock stroke length... The differences, even if "for the better", would be negligible, and mostly outweighed by the reduction of rollover ability and rolling speed that comes with the smaller wheel.
And then you've got all the stuff regarding the the relationship between tyre shape in three dimensions and its natural turn radius vs lean angle.
This stuff is largely immaterial on a pedal powered bicycle (or at least the difference in how front and rear tyres behave is largely immaterial)... It's HUGELY important in MotoGP, where they have 300bhp going through a single contact patch on the rear tyre not much larger than the size of your fist. But ultimately on a bicycle where the suspension performance and the bike's handling are largely being judged when the bike is being freewheeled down a hill with gravity assisting, the 3 dimensional relationship between the contact patches of the tyres and the ground is equally important for both the front and rear wheel, and in almost exactly the same way (braking would be more important than acceleration, but in either case, a larger diameter tyre works better here anyway)...
I like slack head angles, I like short offset forks, I like fairly long reach/wheelbase and fairly low BBs, I like big front wheels, all of which make a bike more stable - but I don't want a bike to be too long or slack or low because I do need to be able to make it turn! In an ideal world I'd have a big rear wheel on rougher or flatter stuff and a smaller rear wheel on twistier or steeper or pumpier stuff but as I have to choose I'll have the big wheel when there's less rear travel to smooth out the rough and the smaller wheel when I've got more suspension to help out - I'd say 140mm is the point of indecision for me.
Mostly agree... But I think where we differ in view point is what constitutes a bike being hard to turn, and how much suspension is too much for a large rear wheel... I know guys that can turn 1500mm+ wheelbase MX bikes (NOT on the throttle incidentally) in tighter turns than many people I know can turn their 1250ish mm wheelbase MTB's... Learning how to turn, to lean the bike, to engage the side knobs of the tyres properly and to move their weight around to acheive optimal front:rear weight balance for any given corner, is the important factor here... A smaller rear wheel makes VERY little difference if the skills aren't there in the first place!
As for suspension travel... Far more to do with physical clearance as the suspension compresses I would argue. From experience, anything under 160mm rear travel and I want a 29er rear wheel, above that and I can start to buzz my backside on the steepest of trails. I am 5ft10 with a 33" inside leg. I suspect someone 6ft6 might get away with a 29er rear wheel on a longer travel bike than me, and someone 5ft tall with a 26" inside leg might well struggle even on a 29er Hardtail on anything steep!
So yes, there is still a fair amount of subjectivity to all of this too, and your rules that you apply to yourself might well have a decent level of validity to them... But they don't apply to everyone!
if you like your Atherton (and who wouldn’t with your spec) could you not get a motor conversion kit for it?
Does such a thing exist? I mean without it looking a bit like it was made in a garden shed!
Check to the geometry for any given size of Crafty as they come up big. My mate just got one and thinks it's ace. I'd get the Atherton personally.
“This is the last I'll say on this (not really the right thread), but you seem to want to do pedantry, so here goes...”
Pot calling kettle? I don’t have the time to write an essay but you’ve made a whole load of definitive statements about a field (two wheeled vehicle dynamics) where much remains unclear because it’s essentially impossible to isolate the rider’s effects on the vehicles handling.
”Been done many times both by bike testers, and certain manufacturers (Geometron for a start!)”
You can’t make the geometry of a mullet and full 29 bike identical without the mullet bike’s rear tyre hovering 19.5mm above the ground - the axle has to be lower and it changes thing even if everything else matches.
And that axle position increases anti-squat (but that would be cancelled out if you enlarge the chain ring to match the ratio) and the mullet’s wheel path is more rearward.
You can state that the shape of a tyre doesn’t change things a significant amount but it does change things - some may feel it, some may not. I’m more hypersensitive to this stuff than most and I do (if you want to find out what’s wrong on your bike feel free to lend it to me and I’ll come back with a list…)
I said:
”In an ideal world I'd have a big rear wheel on rougher or flatter stuff and a smaller rear wheel on twistier or steeper or pumpier stuff but as I have to choose I'll have the big wheel when there's less rear travel to smooth out the rough and the smaller wheel when I've got more suspension to help out - I'd say 140mm is the point of indecision for me.”
And you said: “your rules that you apply to yourself might well have a decent level of validity to them... But they don't apply to everyone!”
Please re-read what I wrote. They’re not rules and I repeatedly say “I” and “for me”. You can do whatever you want to do, I’m not telling anyone what to do, I’m just observing what I’ve found and how I feel about bikes for me.
Little in bikes is definitive but you write like there is, whilst also stating that a better rider makes more difference (well, duh?!)
I am going to act as a moderator here. I asked for advice which people have been happy to give. Quite happy for you to have your discussions over PM, but please don’t do it here. The content is interesting but the tone isn’t necessary.
I can tell you that the life threatening and life changing events of the last few weeks that led to this thread have given me a sense of perspective that you both lack. It’s just biking chaps. Enjoy it whatever size wheels you ride and however you want to justify it.
I am alive, and that is a sense of joy that I cannot ever hope to express fully. I would have been dead by Christmas without even knowing I had cancer. That’s quite a reality check
I want to ride again and experience the feelings that I took for granted for 50 years. As I recover from surgery having experienced levels of pain that I could never have imagined, having lost parts of my body that will leave me permanently disabled and looking forward to 6 months of chemotherapy, frankly I would give anything to swing my leg over a bike with any sized wheels and geometry right now and enjoy the sense of freedom, exhilaration and nature that has been placed so cruelly out of my reach. It’s a sobering, dehumanising and humbling place to be.
Life is precious and fragile. Enjoy it, enjoy the ride and be kind to each other. Sweat the big stuff, because the little stuff really doesn’t matter.
My pennies worth:
- Bosch Motor. Jury still out on Avinox. Shimano seems dead in the water?
- Full Fat. Friends with 1/2 fat bikes always seem to run the extender as well.
- Removable battery.
- Full 29er.
- Big brand.
- Local support. Although Canyon (apart from talking out of their arses) have provide good support for me.
- Travel not an issue. Plenty around in the 140+ plus at the rear. I like the downs, not the ups so more is always better for me.
Best of luck with the treatment.
@solarider amen brother 🙏 unfortunately asking for sensible advice on any subject will nearly always go sideways, hope you managed to sort the wheat from the chaff but more importantly you're still here ♥️
Nothing as terrible as your " news" but diagnosed with Osteoporosis and crushed vertebrae in my spine I was told never to ride a bike off road again. Even though that was 17 years ago now I still remember saying and thinking well may as well dig a hole now .
Luckily my GP was a mountain biker and he encouraged me back .
Here's hoping you get the chance to get back in the saddle in whatever electric form you choose 🙏
I would enjoy window shopping for now. Keep looking at all the alternatives and buy when the treatment is almost finished. Mostly because if you buy now and can only ride in about 6 months time that will be 6 months less warranty that you may have.
And eBikes seem less reliable than normal bikes
I rented a mondraker for a few days on a trip whilst waiting for my atherton….
so perhaps a good bit of perspective…. But i havent ridden lots of ebikes in fact just those two.
they are both weapons…
I think that if you love your A130 then I’d probably be looking for less bike than the s170e
also, depending on how it shakes out, if you just want to do your normal riding, but a bit of help the full power ones are overkill and heavy
id seriously consider a SL type.
for the wife we went on a leisure lakes demo weekend and tried a lot, she chose an sl as her favourite.
ive got the Atherton as a self uplift type of riding bike, I’ve turned down the power loads, it’s mental…
also amflow have riding prototypes of a MGU system…
so, there’s that…
for my 2p, I’d wait until you can try some and decide what will work for you…
Good luck with the recovery firstly.
I always said I wouldn’t beget an ebike but after 3 medical dramas in 12 months my physio suggested it for recovery.
I’d hold off a purchase until you can ride as you want the benefit of your motor / battery warranty for as much riding as you can.
I’ve always had the view I’d like to keep an ebike a bit lighter in general - mainly for lifting it rather than riding. I went for a sale Mondraker because it had the motor I wanted (Bosch SX), weight wasn’t bonkers, price was great and the spec was ok enough. The only downside for me of the bike is the limited seatpost insertion and the headset cable routing.
It weighs 20kg and that’s the max weight of most roof carriers for bikes. It’s definitely an effort getting the bike up there but it’s just about do-able. I’d think a tow ball bike rack would be the preference.
I ruled out anything with a Shimano / TQ / Fazua motor from my list. Mainly due to either reliability or availability of warranty / replacements. It’s a shame as the Trek Exes are going cheap at the moment and they’re a good bike otherwise / the Transition Relay looks great other than the motor - again with cheap deals.
All the Avinox motors seem to be on heavy bikes that I found - some of that will be the 700w-800w battery.
So far I like the Bosch SX - I mostly running eco or tour+. Just save the 2 highest settings for steep things that would tense up my lower back (which is the main thing I’m trying to avoid). Frankly turbo mode is a bit silly and that’s got a max of 60nm / 600w assuming you’re spinning out at 120rpm.
On travel I can’t say it’s noticeable that it’s the longest travel bike I’ve ever had - because you have a bit of a boost in any mode it doesn’t appear to be a hindrance to progress. I guess at slow speeds you notice it’s a big bike but up or down you’re rarely going slow.
It’s the first bike I’ve had that’s a mullet - I’m not sure I’ve really noticed that. I’ve come from a Transition Sentinel (29er - 160/155mm travell) and also have a Top Fuel (29er - 130/120mm travel) for context.
I like that I can pickup an extender for the bike (Powermore 250) and will get one. The bonus with that is for long rides you can have the 250wh extra capacity but for most other rides you can save that weight being there and fit in a normal bottle cage (there is literally a swapable mount for this purpose).
The whole Ebike thing is hilarious - more fun than I thought. Having had a go on an older Cube full fat that felt like a runaway train I was worried if I’d like it. I had a quick go on an Orbea Rise and that felt more like a ‘bike’ but I wasn’t wildly impressed with how it handled back to back with the Sentinel. With the Dune I’m straight up to speed and haven’t really had to adjust too much on the downhill sections which is all you can hope for really.
Good luck with it and what you choose.
