Forum menu
We've new 20mph zones in Dunblane. We've some drivers now overtaking those doing 20mph.
One route is busier artery route, but has school on it and multiple crossing points to other school, shops, doctor etc. This morning someone overtook outside the school, just before 9am.
I've one chap arguing on Facebook (I know) that because drivers ignore the 20mph, we should revert to 30mph...and that frustration leads to more accidents.
Apart from 'away and boil your head', h<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">ow do I highlight his stupidity and put him back in his box...?</span>
Or am I arguing with stupidity...
You are arguing with stupidity, sorry.
20mph zones outside things like schools are a very good thing to, well, save the lives of small, easily distracted and mobile kids. If people overtake in those zones, maybe plod would like to spend some time there with a speed gun.
Don't bother arguing with him. Assuming he's local you should go to his house and murder him.
If people just ignore the laws against murder we should get rid of them. Frustration at not being able to murder morons leads to more accidents. We'll be saving lives in the long run...
arguing on Facebook
I think there were some stats a while ago that >80% of drivers speed in 20 mph zone.
I live on a 20 mph road, for example, and I'd say that most drivers are speeding. Many do 40, 50 mph at least when it's relatively empty. I'd like to sort them out with an RPG 😀
Not worth it Matt, but if you find out where he lives I’ll bring the hammer if you bring the frozen sausages.
When somebody asks a question, and is interested in listening, you can argue with them. In this case he's trying to justify unreasonable behavior, and backing down would mean admitting that to himself, so he won't. There's no point trying.
I suppose you could try "if frustration leads to accidents, relax and stop being frustrated - and that's what I'm going to do now, as there's no point arguing with you".
*breathes deeply and slowly*
I think I'm giving fb a rest.
An excellent decision.
If he thinks breaking the speed limit isn't a serious crime, then what other laws are within his ability to pick and choose from?
Perhaps your school and the police could get together on an awareness campaign. At our primary it went down well:
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/children-speed-cameras-pull-over-mayor-1943595
Have the police not been doing checks as its a new change?
The only way to improve it is to note down every time it happens and keep sending your log to your local councillors and or the police. If no one highlights the problem then they can pretend the problem isn't there.
As for the Dino's on local groups sometimes life is too short to argue. If the police know about the problem then they should (not guaranteed) make some attempt to sort it. Magistrate handing down a few fines often helps get the message through.
How long is the section of road? How many more minutes would it take driving at 20mph instead of 30mph? I imagine very few. But then:
If you hit a pedestrian:
- at 40 mph there is a 90 percent chance they will be killed.
- at 35 mph there is a 50 percent chance they will be killed.
- at 30 mph there is a 20 percent chance they will be killed.
- at 20 mph there is a 2.5 percent chance they will be killed.
How does that tiny time saving look now?
Have the police not been doing checks as its a new change?
Seems that all of Stirling, BofA, Dunblane, Callander and surrounding villages have been swapped over to 20mph over the last 6 months or so. Middle_oab and driving instructor drove same road about 15 minutes apart - and they had changed the limit!
I think it's great. Odd when driving at first, I just now take an Ogmios approach to getting everywhere now. It's brilliant on a bike, as I'm nearly the same speed a lot of the time.
It will take time to settle in and people get used to it.
Not seen any police out though.
Blank 20 mph zones simply don't work imo.
As a driver you drive via two things
1) experience (ie last time i drove down this road i didn't crash, so this speed is fine)
2) Your eyes - you can have as many dumb 20 mph signs as you like, but in a modern car, on an empty road, 20 mph is slow and feels even slower
The problem is that these long 20 mph zones, in which for the vast majority of the time 20 mph feels to slow to drivers and there is no obvious risk (not the same as there being no risk!), simply re-enforce the "it's ok to break the speed limit" mantra in drivers heads. They did 30 through here last time, and the time before that, and didn't have an accident so it's fine to do it again. Accidents are so rare that the fundamental "normalisation of deviance" factor overides everything.
You can't convince anyone that it's not fine to speed because, mostly they speed all the time and don't crash!
What we need, imo are as follows:
1) limited and very target use of the lower limit, directly at the point of highest risk (ie outside a school
2) smart signs that apply limits when needed and not when not (ie at 3am the limit is 30 not 20, because no-one is around!
3) Proper fines and penalties where the driver cannot avoid or mis-understand their specific responsibility
Just blanketing everything at 20 is the "easy way out" for councils. They can stick so signs up, absolve themselves from responsibility and just blame "irresponsible drivers"
But the fact is, all drivers are irresponsible. When out estate (which is a stupid and completely ignored 20 mph zone) carried out a speed check because residents complained about speeding, something like 98% of the people caught speeding were, der, residents of the estate......
I'm on 20 road now. But many still ignore it. South Glos seem to hope they can solve all problems with more white paint and a couple of speed cushions.
Chincanes are the way forward and RPG's.
I enjoy a 20 and a healthy que of hotheads behind getting ever more enraged.
If they pass be Ogmios way of Zen.
I’d love to see mandatory 20mph zones outside every school, rigidly enforced by the police. I remember when I lived in Canada for a while the wrath you’d get for overtaking a school bus picking up and setting down, basically a you’d get arrested and the same for speeding too (was 20mph from memory).
Always stuck to it myself but was a common sight seeing a cop car parked up too, made it very clear it was socially unacceptable to speed and potentially run over little kids (as it should be).
They did 30 through here last time, and the time before that, and didn’t have an accident so it’s fine to do it again
I reckon they probably did 40 last time and the time before, and now they are doing 30. Still bell ends but 60% less chance that someone is going to get killed to death so it does bring some benefit.
Will stick my head over the parapet and agree with @maxtorque on this one.
There seem to be a lot of new 20mph zones in Scotland recently.
While 20mph is ‘safer’ many of these have been 30mph for many decades previously, so people will wonder what has changed.
I’d also argue that PARTS of these new 20mph zones are too slow for the road layouts and conditions - they could support 30mph limits (which is what they were until recently).
An example of a school above is a good one - that really should be a 20mph, but unless there are some specific circumstances either side of that zone, more than likely that 30mph would remain appropriate.
A blanket 20mph will be ignored by many, so they’d carry on speeding past the school, whereas I reckon a targeted one would more likely deliver the desired effect i.e. People doing 20mph by the school, and back up to 30mph on the wide, clear road with no turnings, driveways or crossings.
Maybe in time these behaviours will be forgotten, and people will readily accept the lower speeds, but as long as there is memory of the previous limits, I think it is hard to persuade people into meaningful change.
They have put blanket 20mph limits in every town and village in the Borders, it was done under th COVID active travel type scheme, I think it is ace, feels weird at first but only mades the slightest difference to any journey timewise. But people are properly melting their heads over it, they are absolutely furious.
Publicly made, common complaints on FB include:
- It is only a trial so not legally enforceable, so everyone should ignore it (not true)
- It is bad for cars as the revs at 20mph sit between 2nd and 3rd gear (but does 30mph not sit between 3rd and 4th?)
- Buildings are being destroyed because of excess vibrations from lorries (WTAF?)
- It is worse for the environment due to engines running for longer (not backed up by evidence)
- People who claim they don't see their kids before bed time as they are now spending an extra 2hrs a day driving (clearly not true)
- It is causing gridlock as you can't pull out of junctions due to traffic (you can actually pull out much quicker as you can join in smaller gaps, there is no traffic delay)
- Everyone still speeds so its pointless (yes, but they are speeding slower than before)
- The money spent should have gone in to filling potholes (it was funded by active travel grant, that money cannot be diverted into potholes)
-It will ruin economy and business will close (no they won't)
My personal favourites though are the people who claim it is more dangerous as they are having to spend too much time looking a their speedo or who get bored and just look around rather than concentrating on the road. People actually say that in public.
Funny how lots of countries on the continent has had 30kmph limits forever and people aren't dying from over-revving vehicles and crumbling buildings.
It is also remarkable how everyone on FB suddenly claims to be related to a paramedic who is telling them that they can't get to cardiac arrests quickly enough. Its amazing as I know several actual real life paramedics and none of them seem to care at all about it.
Anyways, they are calling it a trial so every chance the driving majority will get their way and it will be rolled back to cover only schools and very built up areas, which is a shame.
But the fact is, all drivers are irresponsible. When out estate (which is a stupid and completely ignored 20 mph zone) carried out a speed check because residents complained about speeding, something like 98% of the people caught speeding were, der, residents of the estate……
One of my neighbours was a retired copper. He retired early and spent his days getting busy organising the community, organising the village hall, newsletters, Neighbourhood Watch groups, you know the sort. One of his projects was to address speeding on the main road that passes the rear of his house. He lobbied for speed checks, got Councillors involved, wrote letters to the press. Eventually the police sorted out a day of speed gun action. Of course you all know how this story ends.
Or am I arguing with stupidity…
Unfortunately this.
@a11y beat me to it
I wonder what noise reduction impacts there are reducing from 30mph to 20mph. You see roads you might expect to see higher than 40mph, but they are limited due to new housing estates etc and limiting noise is the oft-quoted reason.
He got caught speeding of course.
Just watched Ogmios again. Still no ep4 but well worth a rerun in these lunatic me-first times.
Rule 2 applies here.
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Edinburgh has had almost a 20 limit on most roads for about five years now. At first I found it really frustrating but am quite used to it now. Basically folk are now driving 30 on the main roads but 20 on the residential ones when they used to do 40 and 30. When I drive in for instance Glasgow nowadays I'm alarmed at the speed that the traffic moves at.
‘away and boil your head..’
...is probably the best you can do with the terminally thick.
I'd happy have all roads within towns at 20, and speed cameras bloody everywhere.
They have put blanket 20mph limits in every town and village in the Borders, it was done under th COVID active travel type scheme, I think it is ace, feels weird at first but only mades the slightest difference to any journey timewise. But people are properly melting their heads over it, they are absolutely furious.
Drove up the 702 a few weeks back. Most of the 20s made perfect sense, although there was one which felt more like it barely qualified for a 30, and sticking to 20 took a fair bit of concentration, and clearly the locals behind me were less than happy I was even trying.
TBH the benefit of 20s is that it makes people more likely to do 25-30 rather than 35+. I'd rather the limit was 30 and strictly enforced, if there is no enforcement of 20s.
Thought 20 was unenforceable and was only an advisory limit? or has that changed now in my absence?
Outside schools should be a 20 when lights flashing thing imho, and 30 at other times (obviously dependent on the actual location and road layout). So only active in the morning, lunch break and around home time.
If people are doing 40 in a 30 with part time 20, then it is probably the road layout that needs addressing rather than a sign and a big stick to rap offenders' wrists.
Just to get some people fuming, in those zones, I would be paying significantly more attention to my speedo needle making sure I don't exceed 20 than I would at any other speed, which one can argue makes it less safe for those running across the road. At least I have a legacy ICE so you can hear the car more than those leccy ones with an artificial legally mandated "ooooooh" that one can still barely hear, or can hear but with less audible spacial awareness of where it is.
20 is legally correct.
Why would they change loads of signs and have some signs you obey and some not? 🤷♂️
In Norway it's 20mph pretty much everywhere there is any kind of residence or business. Some people speed, most don't.
30 mph anywhere near houses is crazy. Anyone who thinks it's appropriate anywhere near a school needs their license taken off them and then neutered.
Just drive at 20 and stop overthinking it.
As someone who is monitoring speeds across a number of sites, I've noticed a very clear pattern has developed showing a lot of people drive 10mph above the speed limit regardless of what the limit is.
All these people saying it should only be outside schools and only at school times... How do the kids get to school? There's far more chance my kid will be hit 200m from the school than outside the gates, more chance he'll get hit outside the church hall coming out of Beavers and more chance he'll get outside the gym after swimming lessons... Speeding is a neighborhood problem not a 2 hour window outside a school problem.
More usual response to the it's too hard to drive at 20mph crowd is, "hand your licence back" or for anyone saying their car is in the 'wrong' gear, "get an auto".
I'll bet too that the same folk moaning are the ones complaining about cyclists riding 2-abreast, and now they're complaining that cyclists speed and they can't overtake us.
I also live in the Borders and have no problem with it whatsoever - in fact it's reduced those that normally drive at 40 in a 30 to driving at 30, or 20 if they're behind me. One thing I noticed when I first came to live up here were the sheer number of drivers who drove at 40, whatever the limit.
FWIW I use cruise control, and in my car it'll maintain that speed set up hill or down - unlike my wife's car that will coast faster...
And for the avoidance of doubt I consider that NSL (National Speed Limit) really means No Speed Limit and drive to the road/conditions/vehicle - so it's not like I'm a natural supporter of speed limits, except where they need to be.
And for those that don't know, Scottish Borders Council is a Tory coalition, no Greens etc.
I would be paying significantly more attention to my speedo needle making sure I don’t exceed 20 than I would at any other speed
Why is this any more difficult than it is at 30? Of course it's enforceable.
30 mph anywhere near houses is crazy.
Absolutely. A double decker bus going through a busy town centre at 30 is just wrong.
One thing I noticed when I first came to live up here were the sheer number of drivers who drove at 40, whatever the limit.
I've in the Bordera too and that is definitely a thing. They'll be right up my bumper as I do 20 through the twenty zone, disappear out of sight off the back somewhere when we get to an NSL area and then come rocketing up out of nowhere next time I'm halfway through a 20 area.
I'm like you, I stick to 20, 30 and 40 limits but admit I do push it a bit in NSL areas, my van is only supposed to do 50 but I do push that somewhat.
When arguing about something like this "@ing" your local police force in any reply will bring the whole thread, and the speeding problem/offenders to their attention immediately. Also has the impact of letting the idiots know that the police are aware they have been speeding/arguing for the right to speed around schools. Often makes them shut up and obey the law
I'm not sure if they're "advisory" but they are deliberately and entirely self-policed according to the instructor on my speed-awareness course* a few years ago.
*86mph on the M56 if you must know
The problem is that these long 20 mph zones, in which for the vast majority of the time 20 mph feels to slow to drivers and there is no obvious risk (not the same as there being no risk!), simply re-enforce the “it’s ok to break the speed limit” mantra in drivers heads. They did 30 through here last time, and the time before that, and didn’t have an accident so it’s fine to do it again. Accidents are so rare that the fundamental “normalisation of deviance” factor overides everything.
I think this is a valid points. I think there should be many more 20mph zones but short stretches. Drive though France and most village centres are 30kph the upping to 50kph the 70kph.
I think we could do better but tent to just do extended 20/30/40 mph zones far beyond the risk areas or step ups from 30 straight to 50/60 without a 40mph buffer
I think as a cyclist you end up much more aware of what's going on around you.
In a lot of urban environments there's tons of stuff going on - pedestrians, dogs, traffic lights, pedestrian crossings.
Cycling at 20mph that's not a problem. I can take it all in.
Driving at 30mph I'm left with a choice between ignoring it and assuming it will be fine, or trying to process all this stuff.
I suspect a lot of drivers, who are not also cyclists, tend to take the first option and just filter out lots of stuff at 30mph. That works most of the time, but occasionally a pedestrian or a cyclist pays the price of your inability to actually process everything at that speed.
*breathes deeply and slowly*
I think I’m giving fb a rest.
I just go on facebook to look at friends pictures, funny pictures and skip the rest.
Arguing with people on facebook is an exercise in futility. It is very unlikely to be a reasoned debate where people are open to other ideas.
Thought 20 was unenforceable and was only an advisory limit? or has that changed now in my absence?
It is legal, however the Police Forces guidance on enforcement of 20 mph limits can be a bit variable.
Luxemburg (don't know if it's done elsewhere) has a neat solution to this in suburban areas.
They have markings on the road that give priority to side streets and accesses off the main road. Say in Dunblane, rather than a blanket 20mpg they would have 50kmh but you could have to give way to any and all side streets on your way through.
It neatly solves the problem because you can't just barrel through at 40mph half oblivious. Driving through the built up area requires a state of cat like readiness and really going any faster than 20mph is a bit of gamble.
20 is the legal limit - round red circle indicates that - so could be enforced. Not strictly enforced at the moment obviously leads people to think it's optional... but I'd consider it more a transition period. Habitual speeding to get to the next traffic queue sooner seems to be what a lot of people want to do, in urban areas at least speeding is an ego 'I know better' thing than any real time benefit.
I think a lot of people will be surprised to learn that the 20mph limits ARE NOT ENFORCEABLE in most areas. Contact your local authority. I know LCC did not provide the local legislation to enforce the 20mph limit (might have changed more recently?) on a cost basis.
It's the 'mindset of the few' idea in that if the signs convince a few people to drive at or nearer 20, average speed does reduce slightly.
The ONLY viable way to enforce 20mph (or any limit) is electronic limiting which the UK would never accept or vote for.
I bet many of those who lobbied for the lower speed limits are the same ones who abandon their 4x4 all over the place to drop little Tommy off at school. I’m all for appropriate and considered speed limits but often they seem to be reduced for absolutely no reason. Round here many have been changed from national speed limits down to 40. They are not accident black spots and nothing on the roads has changed in 30 years beyond the introduction of speed cameras. It’s hard to take the claims of road safety reason seriously when this is the back drop.
We were in the boarders recently observing the new 20 mph signs and getting overtaken by locals all the time. You could tell they were locals as many were joining and leaving the main road onto residential streets
It neatly solves the problem because you can’t just barrel through at 40mph half oblivious. Driving through the built up area requires a state of cat like readiness and really going any faster than 20mph is a bit of gamble.
Except so many won't do that - see the person in Dunblane overtaking outside a school just before 9am, se the chap arguing with me that speed is not an issue in any accident. They will barrel through, they will crank up the stereo, the heater, the phone pinging messages, they will not be aware and then a kid steps out while they are doing 40mph.....
The problem is that these long 20 mph zones, in which for the vast majority of the time 20 mph feels to slow to drivers and there is no obvious risk (not the same as there being no risk!), simply re-enforce the “it’s ok to break the speed limit” mantra in drivers heads.
Agreed, but the issue is so many drivers are unaware of the risks that they just carry on. The road in question has the school, doctors and supermarket within perhaps 600m. However, go 600m the other way and at the start and end of the day there is a line of pupils crossing the road to get to primary and high school, plus national cycle route, plus blind corner (when doing more than 30mph). Unless you stand and watch the game of road crossing in a morning with the oblivious drivers and 20 kids, you have no idea of the risks...
Hi-Viz jacket and a hairdryer has a good effect.
Never argue with an idiot. You'll never convince the idiot that you're correct, and bystanders won't be able to tell who's who
Frustration at not being able to murder morons leads to more accidents. We’ll be saving lives in the long run…
I think this idea has some merit
I think a lot of people will be surprised to learn that the 20mph limits ARE NOT ENFORCEABLE in most areas. Contact your local authority. I know LCC did not provide the local legislation to enforce the 20mph limit (might have changed more recently?) on a cost basis.
This is flat wrong - the The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (Amendment) Order 1999 (so, not *that* recent) defines 20mph limits; these are enforceable by law and councils no longer need to seek approval from the appropriate Secretary of State.
We were in the boarders recently observing the new 20 mph signs and getting overtaken by locals all the time. You could tell they were locals as many were joining and leaving the main road onto
Really? All the time?
We've been living here for nine months now and that's not happened to us once.
I've had a couple of tailgaters but a lot less than I used to get back in the Midlands.
It makes it so much nicer to ride a bike on the roads so I'm all for it.
Can't say it takes me any longer to get anywhere in real terms than if the 20s were 30s.
The unenforceable limits are the green ringed 'twenty's plenty' zones, anything with a red border is enforceable.
I agree with @maxtorque as well, the 20 zone in Stirling from town to Bridge of Allan (next to the railway) is tedious in the extreme. Its a long, wide clear road that has no real need for such a limit. For @nobeerinthefridge think East Road.
That said, I'd happily make Largs a blanket 20 and probably Dunblane for that matter. Both have tiny roads off of the main drag and in Largs' case thats self limiting through town as well.
Personally I feel 20 is fine for smaller residential roads or even the German system where peds have priority. Bigger arterial roads are fine at 30 as long as they have safe crossings. But it needs to be enforced or it's no good.
Got overtaken this morning in my village (sounds quaint, but it ain't :)) with much gesticulating from the overtaker too. Why? I must have delayed them by 5 seconds. Oh, and don't get me started on the mini roundabout in the village that the *******s ignore in all directions.
Borders resident here as well and contrary to what most are saying here, I’m starting to see the 20mph limits having an effect. When first put in place they were almost universally ignored but we are almost a year in now I think and the majority has definitely started to shift, from my observations there seem to be almost a majority now who are closer to 20 than 30 a lot of the time. As pointed out on this thread it’s a big change to the mindset for a lot of people as on some roads 20 feels like you are crawling along but time seems to be having the desired effect.
I’m another one who took delight these last months of seeing a queue of irate drivers build up behind me at 20.. doesn’t happen nearly so much now and even those who would clearly like to be going faster seem to be more resigned to it these days. Could be like other major changes to peoples normal routine, I’m just about old enough to remember how up in arms all the grownups were when seatbelts became mandatory, you’d struggle to find anyone nowadays who doesn’t pull a seatbelt on without even thinking about it.
I’m 50/50 on this issue. I’d like a 20mph speed limit in my village, but would prefer to have none from my village to where I work. I think that’s a fair balance.
@squirrelking interesting example mate, because it's a long straight road, and it's not particularly wide, it's awful for folk squeezing past, and the street furniture means overtake then cut back in quick type affairs.
If it was a 20, there would be far less of this IMO. And a couple of cameras too, sorted.
I must be misremembering it, don't remember any street furniture barring a couple of islands. Not so much interesting as just plain bad. TBF I've driven it a handful of times in the last 10 years, I remember when it was a 40 or 50 limit though.
In any case, my point was more that the width made it feel really slow and it was more of sticking plaster rather than a proper infrastructure solution where dedicated bike lanes would have made sense.
I do agree, I know we all have the tendency to rightly protect our rights to road use, but on some occasions, a dedicated cycleway would be so much better.
Though I get shouted at regularly for daring to bike along Troon front on the road, which I do because the shared use path is polluted wi clueless dug walkers.
Except so many won’t do that – see the person in Dunblane overtaking outside a school just before 9am, se the chap arguing with me that speed is not an issue in any accident
Maybe I've not explained the Luxembourg approach very well - the priorities are reversed between main roads and side roads so you can speed if you want but you will crash and it will be 100% your fault. It's not asking people to go 20 but making them give way along the town high street such that going more than 20 is a gamble. Even if the road is clear a car can and will pull directly on the road from any side street at any time. If you hit them you get done for Luxembourgish careless driving.
Also quite like the German shared space thing. Used to drive there quite a bit for work. There's just a sign and the start and end, no road markings and you need to give way to pedestrians. Non compliance is not tolerated and if you hit anyone you're 100% at fault.
I think Wales is considering dropping all 30 zones to a blanket 20mph limit.
I think it’s a brilliant idea and responded to the consultation to say so. I guess there will be a get out that allows higher speeds for areas where the 20mph presumption is deemed too slow and that may water the whole thing down. I hope they don’t chicken out and get it implemented soon.
I know it seems slow when driving - but it’s not about me the driver who is just momentarily passing through someone else’s street, it’s about everyone else who has to put up with the impact of me driving down their road. Incidentally, I find sticking to 20mph easier in an electric or automatic car.
the shared use path is polluted wi clueless dug walkers.
Same in Largs, at least Troon has a wall (maybe not on Ballast Bank but you can ride over the top) to stop you falling off the path.
Also quite like the German shared space thing. Used to drive there quite a bit for work. There’s just a sign and the start and end, no road markings and you need to give way to pedestrians. Non compliance is not tolerated and if you hit anyone you’re 100% at fault.
I was going to quote that but couldn't quite remember the details. Brilliant idea.
I was driving through Cambridge today (I had to pick some stuff up too heavy to carry on a bike) and saw someone *yet again* try to turn left into the Guided Busway.
Car drivers do this on a regular basis, despite the blizzard of NO ENTRY THIS MEANS YOU DUMBASS signs.
If you think car drivers are paying attention, you're just plain wrong. 20mph is quite fast enough.
I have a 20mph near me and at least once a week I get some twunt flashing me and then speeding past as soon as it opens up to 2 lanes.
I hooted once and the guy then pulled over and got out thinking I was worked up enough to ‘have a chat’. Hooting is about as aggressive as I can manage so I just cruised on by and thankfully he didn’t follow me…
Love the 20 mph through Peebles. The high street is way more chilled and drivers seem to have grasped that there’s no point dashing and stop for pedestrians even between crossings. I go up there a few times a year and it feels like they’ve changed the driver / pedestrian cyclist balance for the better each trip.
Where people are arguing that roads are wide and don’t seem dangerous enough to merit a low speed limit there’s another approach. I live on a wide 30mph road and am shocked at how fast people drive, the noise and the dangerous overtakes. Basically the road layout should change so that it’s visually easier to keep to the speed limit rather than giving up on the speed limit. Cycle lanes could easily make it all look more like a road you shouldn’t be barrelling along at 40mph and above. This is a win win. More people think it’s safe enough to cycle, plus fewer car drivers driving more slowly. Much nicer place.
So many people think that their journey is more important than anybody elses.
Also I'm convinced that a fair few drivers drive purely by feel and never (unless spying a speed camera/police car) look at their speedo.
Plenty drive 40 mph, everywhere.....
Another thing I think as well is, that plenty of people are driving with poor eyesight. When it's dark, I see plenty of people driving well below the speed limit on dark country roads (often with full beam on) then speed up when they come to a well lit town.
Plenty of s##t driving and drivers about.
I got a driver attempt to over take me on Peebles high street last week. I was cycling at the speed of the traffic in front whilst being approx. 1.5m from the curb. She drove -very closely- along side me for about 100m. I was shouting at her to pull back as the road was narrowing. She didn't even look my way.
People driving cars don't seem to understand that people on bicycles can travel at 20mph +
Another thing I think should be added to 20mph zones is a gradual decrease in speed limits. 60 to 40 then to 20. 60 straight to 20 makes 20 feel really slow, so people speed.
Where people are arguing that roads are wide and don’t seem dangerous enough to merit a low speed limit there’s another approach. I live on a wide 30mph road and am shocked at how fast people drive, the noise and the dangerous overtakes. Basically the road layout should change so that it’s visually easier to keep to the speed limit rather than giving up on the speed limit. Cycle lanes could easily make it all look more like a road you shouldn’t be barrelling along at 40mph and above. This is a win win. More people think it’s safe enough to cycle, plus fewer car drivers driving more slowly. Much nicer place.
Yup, totally agree. Either put bike lanes in or extend the pavement with enforcement for folk who think that means it's a parking place.
If the roads were an industrial site, there's no way they would allow traffic at even 20mph with vulnerable humans in the mix.
I'm all for the 20mph limit. I'd like to see it even lower e.g. 15mph. Most of our inner city and town roads were built at a time when pedestrian were common on the road and the fastest thing was a bicycle.
It's ludicrous that car drivers think it's safe to go fast on those sorts of roads.
We were in the boarders recently observing the new 20 mph signs and getting overtaken by locals all the time.
I live in the Borders and have never been over taken whilst driving at the new limit. Not once. I think you are bending your version of the truth.
We were on the Gower peninsula in the spring, there were no roads with a speed limit above 40mph. Even the M4 at Swansea is limited to 50, for air quality reasons. It was excellent for cyclists (not the motorway, obv.)
We were in the boarders recently observing the new 20 mph signs and getting overtaken by locals all the time.
I live in the Borders and have never been over taken whilst driving at the new limit. Not once. I think you are bending your version of the truth.
I wouldn't say 'all the time but I've had half a dozen overtake while I've been driving at 20. I now straddle the line if I see someone attempting it.
.
Interestingly drivers seem much happier to sit behind a car doing 20mph than behind a bike doing 20mph. Very much an attitude of 'a bike!I must overtake!'
And it's not just that bikes are easier to overtake I don't think, often they will overtake me as I'm doing 20mph on a bike and then slow down to do 20 too once they're passed
Also I’m convinced that a fair few drivers drive purely by feel and never (unless spying a speed camera/police car) look at their speedo.
I agree except that it seems a great many don't even look at their speedo when they do see a speed camera. Everyone just brakes, which is why the traffic slows to 30mph at the local well-known cam, despite it being in a 40 limit.
On the speed awareness course I went on* quite a few people protested 'yeah well no-one looks at their speedo do they?'
* long story, not entirely my fault...