[Closed] The road disk debacle continues - banned from French Sportives

Poor SRAM and Shimano, we need to be upgrading our bikes now!

http://road.cc/content/tech-news/187781-shimano-and-sram-report-sales-downturn-first-quarter-2016

Yeah in the real world, pretty much every vehicle has disc brakes. Well proven technology. Yet my roadie boss reacted with glee when he heard this. Odd. I just find the selective luddite-ary of roadies fascinating but bewildering.

On the aesthetics front, I think disc braked road bikes look 'cleaner' and prefer them. Shrug.

I just find the selective luddite-ary of roadies fascinating but bewildering.

I find it fascinating but bewildering that because someone finds something beneficial for their application, they can't seem to accept that someone with more experience can impartially evaluate the pro's and con's and determine that it's not something they need, without branding them a luddite 🙂

WTF is a Luddite any way, Is this the new buzz word to belittle people on the Internet without using CAPS-LOCK,

Just googled it, something to do with textile workers and some random activist type smashing up some machining looms, yes I can see the similarity between a weaver and a cyclist who hasn't bought the next best thing to find out "oh wait" turns out they werent needed after all as the people they are telling that they thought needed disk brakes and through axles could actually ride a bike and think for themselves, now that sounds more like a Luddite to me,

A Luddite is someone fearful of new technology, who'd rather stick to the old ways than embrace change.

That must be me then, as I'm arguing about disks and callipers yet I'm actually running Cantis, I'm not dead yet and when I pull the lever they stop me,

Luddites are much misunderstood by popular history. As a social movement they were not silly nehanderthals as painted now. They were reacting to changes in technology and work patterns because they could see the way it was going and didn't like it. They were worried that these changes were not in fact 'progress' merely change that negatively affected their livelihoods and the way of life of a wide section of society to the benefit of the narrower interests of owners and rentier class. They were conscientiously objecting to worsening terms and conditions rather like the junior Doctors today.

Ha monsiuer blobbie, I appreciate people have different needs - my boss seems to be concerned that a disc road bike is 1.8kg heavier because it needs to be beefed up?? - but on this particular one I do find it weird.

The latest tiny aero mod gets people really splashing the cash, yet introducing a well-proven technology that improves upon and solves many problems of the previous technology, has so much doubt put upon it.

Maybe it's mainly because it makes the old frames obsolete. I get that. But personally you couldn't pay me to go back to rim brakes. And as I told myself I'd never argue about the number of gears on a bicycle again, I've just made a new promise to not argue about disc brakes on the internet ever again.
Because I know I'm right! 😛

Because I know I'm right!

For you, for your riding, you most probably are 🙂

my boss seems to be concerned that a disc road bike is 1.8kg heavier because it needs to be beefed up??

Meanwhile, this trial that's been halted because contrary to what you think Pro riders actually want to go faster not slower

No, the trial was halted because of injuries allegedly caused by a disc brake to a rider.

And in any case, to go faster, you need to be able to stop. You don't see F1 cars with weedy little drum brakes - you see them with massive carbon ceramic discs because it means they can pile into a corner at 180mph and know that they can slow down to 70 within half a second, not ponce around approaching the corner much slower or standing on the brakes for 5 seconds to slow down.
That makes racing faster, more dynamic and more exciting.

Same on an MTB - you can hit descents faster and with more control by using discs, suspension etc which makes it better for spectators. Rather than someone mincing down on a full rigid with cantis, you've got bike and rider being pushed faster and harder.

And from experience, on my disc-braked road bike, I can out-descend anyone* on a rim-braked road bike on virtually any descent just by virtue of the extra power and control I have. That makes riding faster and more fun but also safer.

* OK, maybe not a pro rider but certainly the average club rider.

I bet it's all kicking off over at singletrackworld.es too...

Over to Spain now where they’ve banned disc brakes in amateur events. Or have they? It turns out they’ve always been banned so there’s no news here said the Spanish federation the other day. Only now the Catalan federation says discs are fine according to local newspaper El Periodico. Put aside the increasingly boring debate over discs and this is an amusing look at Spanish regional politics where a sizeable portion of the public in Catalunya wants to become independent.

[url= http://inrng.com/2016/04/tuesday-shorts-9/ ]Source[/url]

crazy-legs. Would more action at corners make road racing more exciting? Or simply more crashes? Much more sudden and late braking can only cause crashes. If that's what you want then fair enough, but I'm not sure its what I want to see, and I can see the riders having issues. And the UCI who have a duty of care.

It is not clear to me that they would make road racing better, and the views of the riders have to be taken into account given that they are the sport.

In the interests of transparency I ride reasonably high end early 1990s steel road bikes, because they look nice and they perform as well as I need a road bike to perform. I prefer off road riding, however, where quality modern suspension (up front at least) and good quality modern disc brakes are borderline essential.

I don't care what road pros ride, most of the bikes look horrid and even if they didn't I'm not in the market for a modern road bike. I do care that pros should have a right to have a massive say in their sport though.

And I am not a luddite, I'm someone who believes that not all technology improves things in every circumstance, and that on many occasions "if it ain't broke don't fix it" applies.

Crazy-Legs, My quote in your post, its exactly that....... My quote, Like i've said countless times in this thread IF your job was to go out and feed the kids and pay the mortgage from how you perform as pro rider would you want to be faffing about unscrewing axles and waggling the disk about trying to get the blade seated between the pads without damaging the pads braking surface or leaving them scuffing? because once it's in situ you cant twist that adjuster to slacken it off a tad like you can on calippers, and as you may or may not know any scuffing is excentuated once the heat builds up in the reservoir,

As for F1 and their silly cars and 180MPH braking into corners, i think they rely on gravel traps if they get it wrong in twisty stuff, quite why you would perceive carnage in corners on a road ride spectator viewing and good for the sport is quite frankly stupidity, i'd prefer to see the attacks on the climbs and the Peleton trying to close down the gap to the lead out group, team tactics at the head of the peleton and the games that the pro's play with each other for tactics, and F1's own governing body implies rules on them, they too have to be of certain criteria, weights, dimensions, air flow, power.

Trying to judge the current standard of Elite level pro bikes brakes as inferior and likening them to drum brakes is laughable, As is your statement regarding out descending any one, there are Plenty of hills which i ride frequently that i pedal down and dont even brake, how are you going to apply your Power & Control over that? As for being more fun, seriously do you actually laugh and giggle as you descend believing all the crap you talk about safety, fun and your expert descending prowess?

I still think it goes against the grain of what makes a great looking road bike, they introduced disks then tweaked the axles, basically changed the road bike to more of a CX bike, so I can see why some don't like it, obvs there's those on here that don't don't like Aesthetics, tradition and the word Bidon, constantly looking for the next best thing,

And this is probably the thing that turns a lot of people off the road groups etc. it's not about "obvs there's those on here that don't don't like Aesthetics" which really makes it sound like we have no taste or can't appreciate what you like just things look different."obvs there's those on here that don't don't like Aesthetics" or conversely holing on to the past with those rose tinted specs and wool jerseys.

If we wanted to make road racing more fun we should probably take a step back to the days of amphetamines and brandy, non of the modern ugly drugs 😉

Do any of the pro disc brake voices ride competitively?

Do any of the pro disc brake voices ride competitively?

I wasn't aware that only elite sportsmen/women could comment on a given sport, equipment and the rules/bodies governing it, next time someone starts up in the pub about Chelsea or whoever I'd better stop them and check credentials...

Pro cyclists might be skilled and capable but they're not pefect, as with anything the vocal, "anti" minority seem to be pushing any debates their way, while some have said they're simply not sold either way...
TBF Several riders did start P-R with discs, so they're clearly not all united against the devil brakes...

mikewsmith is right, P-R was a prematurely aborted trial, because someone scraped his knee and then blamed the equipment on trial (despite it's not seemingly being involved).

And to be clear, I am not necessarily "Pro-disc" I am in favour of broadening the rules to allow their use, a precursor to which should be a proper trial...

Do any of the pro disc brake voices ride competitively?

I don't race (any more, I raced XC and DH at national level in 1990's), but I certainly ride bikes for fun and put in 300-350 km every week

I've owned lots of road bikes including:

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my current road bike:

[img] [/img]

having fitted a Sachs hydraulic disc brake to a Rockshox fork before rockshox even had disc brake mounts, I've always been an early adopter of new technology in bikes, and have ridden disc brake mountain bikes since 1994.

But, I don't have any burning desire to get another disc brake road bike, the caliper brake bike works just fine for me, even in the wet. I prefer the aesthetic, the simplicity, the lighter weight - even with those deep section wheels my current bike is lighter than the old disc bike.

However, I can see the appeal for many riders, and if I wanted a heavy duty, foul weather commuting bike with drop bars and mudguards, I'd choose hydraulic disc brakes without pause.

Esher Shore, Be careful, you used the Aesthetic word there, there's a good chance that you will be branded a Luddite stuck in the past refusing to come in out of the cold.

i appreciate the fact the you find rim brakes more simplistic, which in essence probably describes the way I feel about the whole none disk strategy. Having been an early adopter of HOPE brakes back in 90's through to the Evo's I have on my big bike now, I can't ever see me riding a MTB without disks and bolt through axles, rear suspension and a dropped post. All these things are "to me" complicated items which need constant care and attention, fettling, setting up fine tuning cleaning and lubing, removing and sending off for servicing and warranty repairs.

A Ye-Olde rose tinted bike with rim brakes is as simplistic a bike as I require for road going duties and winter training activities, I can't ever see me requiring to go any faster down a hill because I've changed my brakes, if I'd spent money on expensive brakes I'd actually be pretty pissed off that it was faster down hill, if you get where I'm coming from?

Maybe one day we will all be scooting round on hover bikes, that's progression....... Personally I'm dreading that thought but here's hoping the majority of proper Cyclists on here adopt this new tech and then spread their infectious enthusiasm for all shit new and shiny, and down the old crap that doesn't work and never did.

Not content with discs, the UCI will be trialling these new frame modifications in the Giro..

Need it, if that's the next new must have thing then I'm all over that like a tramp on chips,

I bet that corners better than them old shit bikes that Luddites ride with clonky old calliper brakes and aesthetics and imagine the speed you could scrub off going into the corners with these ere disks, you could meet yourself coming back out the other side and live to tell the tale, we must embrace the new shit, it's the future

we must embrace the new shit, it's the future

Crash in TdY today. Any discs, any death by disc brake?

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[img] [/img]
Ned Stark allowed the south to use disc brakes

The bloke with the yellow overshoes is probably wishing chain rings had a guard on them.

Hitler used discs.

FACT.

[url= http://cyclingtips.com/2016/05/leaked-notes-reveal-that-uci-will-restart-disc-brake-trial-in-june/ ]BAN CHAINRINGS! [/url]

Evil things, I can't believe that they're allowed in this day and age

And were back cause it was a chain ring...
http://cycling-today.com/uci-wants-to-restart-disc-brake-trial-in-june/

I saw a picture someone was asked to make disc brake covers for one of the teams, cant find the sod now.

The bloke with the yellow overshoes is probably wishing chain rings had a guard on them.

Why the chain is still on the ring, so is in effect a guard. Guy in the red however, his arm is exactly where a rear disc would have been.

Anyway moving on, I was slightly surprised to find my disc front wheel really catching in a cross wind the other day, if I'd had deep sections on I genuinely think it would have been a handful.

Having been an early adopter of HOPE brakes back in 90's

When Hope were still based on an closed system I rode down a nice descent in the rockies, never been so scared in my life, I would far rather have had calipers on that day. Thank god the disc brake manufacturers have all moved to open designs now.

philxx1975 - Member
I saw a picture someone was asked to make disc brake covers for one of the teams, cant find the sod now

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-road-disk-debacle-continues-banned-from-french-sportives/page/3#post-7653421 ]Jameso posted [/url] Shimano's US patent application for a road disk cover earlier on this thread.
I saw an actual pic of a custom made one too, but can't remember where :-/

Was at the Mallorca 312 at the weekend and plenty or riders using them there despite the Spanish having apparently banned them.

[i]
I saw a picture someone was asked to make disc brake covers for one of the teams, cant find the sod now[/i]

this?

[url=

View this post on Instagram

UCI has no plans to resume the disc brake trial according to [url= http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/uci-not-planning-to-resume-disc-brake-trials-anytime-soon-48037/ ]this article on BikeRadar[/url].

I'd assume that the manufacturers are beyond caring now as it certainly looks like discs on road bikes for the punters have gained sufficient momentum. Was quite difficult to spot a road bike without discs in the Eurobike coverage. My LBS tells me pretty much all the road bikes they're selling now have discs too.

Hope have got some new road specific rotors with a rounded edge and also full hydraulic road systems now:
http://road.cc/content/tech-news/203735-eurobike-2016-hope-show-new-road-calipers-and-hubs

Replacement for the venerable V-Twin system which I've got on my CX bike, specifically so I can also run bar-top levers.

I agree with you though, I think the disc brakes on road bikes is a no-brainer for the general public and the acceptance of them is now widespread enough to ignore the relatively few people who actually do proper road/circuit racing.

Still a rarity around here and the lbs cant shift em.

I'll be waiting for them to make the disc larger, more centrally located, perhaps it could be combined with another part of the bike, that would be the perfect engineering solution.

3 out of the 4 roadies I most regularly ride with have gone disc even though I had them down as real Luddites.
The fourth weighs as much as a used tissue and only has to breathe out to lose speed dramatically but he was adamant he wouldn't be going disc when he bought his new bike, a top end Cannondale which he got cheap.We all pointed out the reason it was cheap was it was non-disc but this didn't persuade him

Just about to get my disc defy 🙂

We all pointed out the reason it was cheap was it was non-disc

Didn't really care about discs on road bikes but if it drives down the price of bikes I'd want to buy then I'm all in favour 🙂

[quote=crazy-legs ]I agree with you though, I think the disc brakes on road bikes is a no-brainer for the general public

As in it's only those without a brain who want them?

It's been pointed out plenty of times on numerous threads on here that rim brakes work just fine on road bikes (and the vast majority of those who don't race or do group riding will likely never take their nice road bike out in the conditions where discs have an advantage). The usual line about luddites and comparison with discs on mountain bikes doesn't really apply - I was an early adopter of discs on my mountain bike because the advantages were clear.

My 'winter' bike has discs and my 'summer' bike has calipers. If it's dry there's no real difference between the braking (although I could lock the wheels on the disc bike with less effort if I wanted to). In the wet the disc equipped bike is much better, far more consistent and no half second "nothing's happening whilst the brake pads clear the water off the rim" feeling you get with caliper brakes. I can still stop quickly on the caliper brake bike in the wet but it's simply not as good.
For me the other big benefits to discs will come from being less worried about investing in fancy carbon wheels (as the rim won't wear out after a couple of years) and also it's probably better for tubeless (or latex tubes) to move that heat off the rim, although admittedly that's less of a concern in this country.
The only downside is maintenance is a bit more hassle and weight but those don't really bother me.