[Closed] The road disk debacle continues - banned from French Sportives

Rim rub doesn't matter as the brakes are so ineffective. Disc brake rub though stops you dead.

🙂

I fell of my bike in a race on Sunday and there was contact between my leg and the rotor!!!

I've got some strange black marks on my leg where I seem to have branded myself. I've also got a small 1 cm cut. First time I've burnt/cut myself with a brake rotor in 15 years.

We must ban disk brakes from enduro racing at once!

I mentioned it on the other thread but [url= http://road.cc/content/tech-news/186776-enve-develops-new-wide-rim-wide-tyres-will-be-disc-brake-only-and-tubeless ]this[/url] illustrates why discs have the potential to make road bikes go faster IMO...

All the "whataboutery" from either stand point isn't really moving anything forwards ultimately...

But i'd imagine they wanted a STOP on the trial with immeiate effect after the accident "Just in case" with a view to a descision being made after collating their [u]evidence[/u].

The Key word there is [i]evidence[/i], isn't it? I am not sure any has been presented that conclusively demonstrates the perceived dangers...
Was any evidence actually cited at the time the UCI halted the trial?

I take it theres No footage of this incident then?

Excellent question... Anyone?

Assuming there's not (because we've been instagramming carved up knees but no crash footage) Ventoso's injury is arguably just as consistent with him having piled into a ~100mm dia sprocket or a pedal, as a disc rotor on another bike, both also pointy, and at about the same height as a shin...

So guards for cassettes shouldn't be ruled out as possible recommendations from this hypothetical UCI investigation I suppose...

For the lack of evidence it will all come down to his version of how the injury occurred, someone will eventually have to either challenge the details of his account or else they just accept it entirely on faith as honest and true...

And as before this was never about compelling disc use, simply understanding what risks/benefits would come from allowing the choice for Pro-teams... Now amateur (non-racing) cyclists are being penalised...

I await the UCI's findings with interest...

Like a footballer who's shit and gets sent back to his team............

to extend the analogy. Like a footballer who might be shit, but no-one actually saw him play, they have just hypothesized he was shit.

And someone saw another footballer who looked a bit like him and he was shit, so on that basis made a further assumption that they must both be shit 😉

to extend the analogy. Like a footballer who might be shit, but no-one actually saw him play, they have just hypothesized he was shit.

Actually he played, and was doing just fine, but someone who'd never seen him play heard in the pub he was shit. Though actually, they were thinking of that other guy, you know, he used to play for Chesterfield. The ginger one.

Why do you care what kind of brakes I prefer?

It's all a bit pathetic. The only "risk" in my view is having a mix of disc and rim brakes in very wet conditions especially with rim riders using poor combinations of carbon wheels/ break blocks. Otherwise I can't see any other greater risk to riders than other pointy bits on bikes.

I was in a big crash at the end of a road race sprint once. When I eventually got the people and bike bits off me I checked myself over and seemed to be OK apart from a small cut on my forehead by my eyebrow. The medic at the end took a look a me and said "you were lucky". I must have been confused and they said "take a look at your glasses". I took them off and there was a set of perfectly spaced chain ring marks across the specs. I still have those specs hanging up in my workshop.

I ride a disc Roubaix and whenever i have the traditionalists have a go i always think back to doing the Tour de Yorkshire sportive last year, coming down a 15% steep slope in rain so heavy that it was like riding down a river at 35mph, i'm 101kg (despite riding 8000 miles a year) and i managed to brake and make the left hand turn at the bottom easily in the rain. The guy just ahead who could not of weighed more than 70kg could not brake in time, his rim brakes were simply not cutting it and he went straight over on the junction and through the windscreen of a Transit Connect van.

So whilst i can appreciate that the average sportive rider has nowhere near the talent a pro rider has, i do feel that disc brakes have there place. I feel more confident in my daily commute having been knocked off twice by people pulling out of side roads that i can stop pretty much dead in all weathers too.

[img] [/img]

- note the drawing shows a flat mount road brake.

Hat to anyone who knows the bike by the way.

Ah so Shimano are behind it! They are paying Pro's to get a kitchen knife, slice their leg/arm open and then blame it on the rotor.

That way Shimano get to sell road discs AND get everyone to but their plastic guard thing

[b]Why do the edges of bike disc brakes have to be sharp?

Can they not be rounded?[/b]

They aren't sharp, are they? You can press your finger against one with no chance of cutting yourself.

I take it theres No footage of this incident then?

iirc there was film/photos of the crash on the road.cc coverage. None of the riders involved were from either of the two teams using disc brakes at the race in question.

^^ That diagram has the word HOT written on it..

Does that mean it's Hot now? in the future? being used? not being used? or the words are an acronym of "Hugefatnakker On Top"?

Hugefatnakker On Top

*quietly bins the "This rider is HOT" t-shirt*

😳

IdleJon - Member
They aren't sharp, are they? You can press your finger against one with no chance of cutting yourself.

Little experiment for anyone who believes this.

Cruel version - spin a wheel on your disc braked bike as fast as you can. Press a finger against the outer edge of the disc.

Less cruel version - press something else with similar properties to skin on it.

(FWIW I think discs seem reasonable for sportives, and run them myself on my commute/winter bike, but I'm not in favour of them in the Tour unless the riders themselves are after running them, which they appear not to be).

philjunior - Member

IdleJon - Member
They aren't sharp, are they? You can press your finger against one with no chance of cutting yourself.

Little experiment for anyone who believes this.

Cruel version - spin a wheel on your disc braked bike as fast as you can. Press a finger against the outer edge of the disc.

Less cruel version - press something else with similar properties to skin on it.

Yes, well done. A spinning disc will cut into flesh. But that's because they are spinning, not because they are sharp. In the same way that you could stab yourself with a blunt knife but that wouldn't make the blunt knife a sharp object. (I've stabbed myself in the leg with a pliers handle before now - extremely blunt, and I'm extremely cack-handed.)

I just realised I have ridden in a sportivey bunch, in the wet, using discs... A couple of months ago, a mate and me entered a cyclocross sportive being run alongside a road one, so the starts were mixed groups of a hundred or so, and the first few miles were along the same set of damp, gravel strewn country lanes mixed up with the roadies...

I would say the issue was almost the opposite of what many claim it should be, in that, given the conditions and the mixed ability of the bunch, the rim braked road bikes were generally dragging much earlier on approach and well into many of the corners, while we on discs, (and possibly with more grip) were able to brake later, with more control and be off the brakes choosing a line rather than hanging on for dear life through half the corners.

Now I admit a sportive, certainly isn't a race but I did find that having more confidence in my brakes meant I was possibly more likely to ride into someone else on rim brakes than be shunted from behind in that particular instance...

Now, let's see your best "[i]cool story Bro[/i]" memes...

Yes, well done. A spinning disc will cut into flesh.

And whilst you're moving, it'll be spinning.

I'm not a disc brake hater, I think the risk is small and sportives should allow them, but on the basis of accepting a small risk, not pretending it's not there. In a tight bunch there is a chance of contact. It's *possible* (Not likely, and no comment on whether any pros did in fact slice their leg open on a disc or on the flying spaghetti monster, but said riders probably have a better idea what happened than you or I).

More likely to be cut by the also spinning aero bladed spokes.

Spokes are inside the rim, disc sits outside.
So a front wheel hits you , gets slightly deflected and buzzes your leg ,ear nose whatever. The disc standing proud, cuts you, like a meat slicer, not the spokes.
A positive is the wound will be cauterised thanks to hot disc.

[quote=IdleJon]A spinning disc will cut into flesh. But that's because they are spinning, not because they are sharp. In the same way that you could stab yourself with a blunt knife but that wouldn't make the blunt knife a sharp object.

This is bad logic.

A spinning blunt thing will hurt you, but it will be through friction, not cutting. You can't slice yourself open with the back of a knife.

Stabbing is different. You can be punctured by a bit of 2 x 4 if it has enough energy

A brake disc does have quite sharp edges - an abrupt 90 degree angle. It could cut you if you run your finger along it. And of course spinning, it will slice easily (ask the guy I met in morzine 5 years ago when he sliced open his finger on one through stupidity).

So [b]the question remains [/b]- [b]why[/b] are the edges of disc brakes [b]not chamfered or rounded[/b]?

[quote=CaptainFlashheart]More likely to be cut by the also spinning aero bladed spokes.

Aero spokes aren't sharp, they won't cut you.

Aero spokes aren't sharp, they won't cut you.

2.45 to about 3.30 on this video:

In fact, the whole video is worth watching to dispel some of the utter shite being spouted in the rest of this thread...

So the question remains - why are the edges of disc brakes not chamfered or rounded?

[quote=crazy-legs]2.45 to about 3.30 on this video:

It's not cut, it is torn / pulled apart. Standard round spokes would do the same.

[quote=crazy-legs]In fact, the whole video is worth watching to dispel some of the utter shite being spouted in the rest of this thread...

Or you could give us a summary of your boundless wisdom.

😛

I commend the French!

Disc brakes should be banned from all road bikes under international law (and while they're at it, fat bikes need to be banned as well!). They go completely against the spirit of what a road bike is about, namely minimum weight, maximum speed and aesthetic elegance.

This

And this

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/racing/eddy-merckx-disc-brakes-peloton-irresponsible-221408

Why oh why would you ever want disc brakes on road race bikes?!

I'm glad the French have taken a stand. If you want to ride in their Sportives then learn how to ride a bike capably. Chances are, if you're a disc brake user you're a poor rider.

@JoB - fat bikes don't need rim brakes, so much grip you don't need to brake. Ask your dad...

Disc brakes are here, they don't explode and take out the whole peloton so lets get on with it.

davidtaylforth - Member

Why oh why would you ever want disc brakes on road race bikes?!

I'm glad the French have taken a stand. If you want to ride in their Sportives then learn how to ride a bike capably. Chances are, if you're a disc brake user you're a poor rider.

That about sums it up perfectly, nothing more to add!!

Who wants to tell him what David does on here 8)

Who wants to tell him what David does on here

Give sage advice based on his many years of accumulated cycling wisdom.

Oh, no. Hold on...

Who wants to tell him what David does on here

It took me a long while to work it out and I reckon I still misjudge his 'opinions and factual commentary' roughly half the time.

No offence meant BTW DT.

This is bad logic.

Yes, it is. I was reacting to hyperbole but then you came along with an even bigger dollop of hyperbole and even worse logic, so I'm out. 😆

Junkyard - lazarus

Who wants to tell him what David does on here

Meh whatever!!

road disc brakes are for mamil mtbers and muppets who dont know how to ride a road bike properly

[quote=IdleJon]I was reacting to hyperbole but then you came along with an even bigger dollop of hyperbole and even worse logic, so I'm out.

Hey, you are welcome to have a clear and respectful chat about things, like acquaintances would do face to face. I'd be happy to discuss where you believe I am incorrect, so we can reach a better understanding of each others views and experience.

This is great bickering material. Wonder if the pros have a similar trollfest in the peleton during the first few hours of a race.
"I quite like discs.. Wish they'd hurry up and let us ride them"..
" what? Are you some kind of mincing homo mountainbiker"
"Yep.. Grow your freaking leg hair... And I bet you can't make it down the next hill without falling off"
"But, but I can go faster and brake way later than you.."
"Ha fatty.. Get back to eating cake and pretending sportives are races.."

"But you haven't even tried them!"

"We don't need to.. They way you ride there'll in limbs severed all over the peleton if you are in a crash"

all the disc haterz will have them in a few years when they realise that it's better to have good brakes than so-so brakes.

Once you spot that then all this chatter is put in the perspective it deserves.

[a mincing homo mtber]

So the question remains - why are the edges of disc brakes not chamfered or rounded?

I had a set of (truly shit) magura one-pot (had to adjust for pad wear at the caliper despite them being hydraulic, woo!) brakes back in the day (they came on a bike).

I'm pretty sure they had chamfered edges on the discs. It wouldn't be anything like as straightforward for funny shaped discs (wavy edges) though. And with wear, they could perhaps still become sharp (by developing a burr at the edge of where the pad contacts) particularly wavy edge designs. I would imagine this is why people don't generally bother with chamfered edges.

Hmmm just thinking. On a big alpine descent with a shroud around the disc and some careful design, the Meredith effect could give you an advantage out of corners (where the disc is hot):

[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meredith_effect ]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meredith_effect[/url]

Edit - maybe with some thrust reversal for the duration of the actual braking.

Edit 2 - I think if I keep having ideas like this I'm going to have to join the HPVA.

road disc brakes are for mamil mtbers and muppets who dont know how to ride a road bike properly

hahahaha I've haven't been on here for months.....nothing changes 🙂

And the Spanish follow suit: http://road.cc/content/news/187652-spain-joins-france-banning-disc-brakes-road-events-including-sportives

With:

Coca told El Periodico that the regulations were “clear, precise and forceful,” and added that the RFEC would seek to send up to six officials to events to ensure that they were complied with.

“The official checks that everything is in order, that a doctor and ambulance are present if an accident happens, that participants who do not belong to the federation have a licence and provisional insurance for the day of the event, that all riders wear a helmet and, from now on, they will be rigorous about equipment and in particular disc brakes.”

Meanwhile, over here we've banned fat bikes. I guess it's a start.....

http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/fat-bikes-not-welcome-at-fred-whitton-challenge/

Given how far away the disc brakes were to the injured riders I hope they will make sure they have a decent exclusion zone for any disc brakes near races.

I reckon the EU's to blame somewhere here - those damn Europeans banning disc brakes and telling us what to do! Vote Brexit if you want to use good old-fashioned British disc brakes 🙂