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I've only ever ridden hardtail or fully rigid, I've ridde them from 87 to today. I've currently got 3 bikes in 2 continents and my favourite is a '97 Cannondale Beast of the east. So good I bought 2. I'd love to be involved in a feature to give a a clear British ridden , hardcore hard tail winner. Any hardtail or rigid from' 92 to 2020. Points for retro jerseys and pointless accessories.
Cindercone.
Given what Mr Rey could do with a Zaskar, I'd have thought this was the most hardcore of hardtails.
Doesn’t get much more hardcore than an Evil Imperial with super monsters, sporting a foot of travel... (not mine)
It snapped, obvs, but thats not the point...
Dialled Alpine. Zaskar is a good shout though.
Spooky Metalhead or Brooklyn Machine Works Park bike.
Both trendsetters in a similar timeframe in an anti factory / rider owned / BMX subculture way whereas the Zaskar under Hans Rey was a good frame but was very much part of corporate big bike company nylon uniforms polished image culture.
They both rode well and were purpose built for 'hardcore' riding that had started to branch away from XC style riding.
Legend has it that a Kona Hoss will break rocks before itself. Same goes for the early Orange Crush. So named because it will crush granite. Allegedly.
Can I vote both an alu and a steel? Ok then 😋
Alu: Marin AXC (Wildcat, Rocky Ridge, B17 etc)
Back in the noughties I sold my 04/05(?) Marin AXC (B17 variant) to a riding buddy, and he liked it so much that after a few years of riding it he bought another of those (same coffin-tubed) AXC frames (this time an 06) to save in store as a ‘backup’. He hasn’t needed the backup to date and still rides the old one today! I’ve seen it take some unintended punishment.
(Rando pic)
Gussets out
Bridge over rubbled slaughter
Steel: DMR Trailstar
Maybe not the most, but one of the best - the Azonic DS1. Stands up to scrutiny decades after:
Decent weight
Nicely made (For the money)
Discs
Good Tyre clearance
Short ST/Good standover
Damned good looking in polished alu
https://ride.io/reviews/azonic-controls-first-look/
Cove Stiffee
I broke 3 hardtail frames in a year and a half.
The stiffee survived 11 years with me. I only retires it as the chainstay were properly gouged from chains suck. Not the bikes fault, I didn't know you had to change chainrings when they wore out.
I had a ds1 and came to write that. Loved it.
Do they have to be old?
Cos I really like my Kingdom Vendetta...
The trailstar was the hardcore hardtail of the 90's but I had a Club Roost Stinger and loved it. The Curtis SuperX was awesome. I had a Blue Pig from around 2011 and it was a horrible, hateful thing.
My current bike, a Chromag Doctahawk is something else in the hardcore stakes, I don't think there are many hardtails as hardcore.
Spooky Metalhead for me. It was the first built for purpose, actual hardcore hardtail which launched a thousand imitations including the DS1, Trailstar, Chameleon, plus entire brands like 24seven, Identiti etc.
I can't think of another frame that changed the mtb landscape as much as the Metalhead.
The Zaskar was cool but it was still a generic XC frame shaped more like a road bike even if it was a bit tougher than average.
I reckon the original incarnations of what would go on to be the "genre" of hardcore hardtail was probably the Santa Cruz Chameleon and the Cove Stiffee.
Frame only, built up to the specific requirements of each individual rider.
The GT Zaskar probably gets a nod in there for being able to fit into that category. After that came all the off-the-peg models (like the Kona Hoss mentioned above) and then other niche manufacturers took it on for a bit - the Cotic BFe for example.
Did the metalhead predate the chameleon? From the components on that metalhead I'd say 98. Chameleon was available then already iirc.
Kona Chute must be in there. First one was 98 I think, I had a 2000(?), the first year they changed to the square Easton RAD tubing. The seat stays and chain stays were massive square sections with zero give, It had Hayes Brakes, a Marzocchi Fork, short stem, raceface cranks, big risers, and big tyres. It was awesome.
Don't BTR have an absolutely mental DH hardtail?
In terms of my genre defining the Santa Cruz Chamaeleon and the Stiffee both stand out. Always rather wanted an either.
Pretty sure a mate had an Orange Subzero that was an absolute monster.
Honorary runner up for those Marin axc frames as I had one... Although I think really the first gen with the tribal graphics.
Forgot about orange. Be rude not to mention the Ms Isle.
Did the metalhead predate the chameleon? From the components on that metalhead I’d say 98. Chameleon was available then already iirc
That picture is just from retrobike, it could have any components fitted. There's not many pictures from the period online sadly.
I've looked up the old Chameleon. It came out in 97 and it's very much a slightly beefy XC bike, not really in the same mould as the Metalhead at all.
I think there's a bit of confusion on here about 'hardcore' hardtails and 'versatile' hardtails which can do a bit of everything.
For me the first hardcore hardtails were covered in gussets, had BMX bb shells and were designed for dirt jumping and street riding.
Sharkattack.
That's a Bandwagon not a Metalhead.😎 *
A mate had a Metalhead around the same time a had a MK1 Chameleon with a disc convesion.
I ended up getting shot of the Chameleon and buying a Stifee. The square chainstays on the Santacruz were brutal.
*Not quite the same. Metalhead came first and had adjustable dropouts.
On One 456Ti (Lynskey Mk2).
Mine's still doing the business.
is the kona chute any different from the roast? I had one of those in 2000 for a few years, frame looks similar.
early specialized p3 (look at the top tube) or the dartmoor hornet (front triangle from their dh frame and just a backend welded on) also worth a look
Yeah 97 sounds right. It was sold as a do it all hardtail at the time.
Balfa Minuteman.
Yeah either the Cham or the Metalhead. at least the Santa Cruz didn’t split its gussets
Sharkattack.
That’s a Bandwagon not a Metalhead.😎 *
How embarrassing. I couldn't spot the difference on my phone screen.
I actually had a Bandwagon as I couldn't afford a Metalhead. I think they were £650 vs £400. Unfortunately it never got the use it deserved as I drifted off to BMX. When I came back to big wheels I had a Charge Blender which was ridden to death. I bloody loved that thing.
+1 for the Kona Chute. I had one the 1999 model.
This was my bike. Forks snapped around the frame but the frame was indestructible
Some great suggestions already (and my MK1 Chameleon was probably my funnest bike ever), but I think these deserve notable mentions:
T1 Barcode
DMR Trailstar. Doesn't hold up to modern geo but it's still a hoot.
Also need to remember that the Hardcore just meant it could be ridden hard thanks to "long" 110-130mm travel, not that it was impossible to ride uphill. Your Minutemen, Imperials, Tankasses etc. were all DH HTs and never intended to go up.
Orange MsIsle for nostalgia, had one in petrol blue with Psylo forks and hope brakes, was like riding a metal roof truss!
I do think the original Hardcore hardtail has to be the Santa Cruz Chameleon though, had one of those in red with the original Pike Coils, what a bike! It eventually died an honorable death, in a big stack coming down Y Wâl at Afan. Rock strike on the BB cracked the shell.
Whoa that Nicolai up there makes my ankles hurt just looking at it, can’t imagine what that was like to ride. Agree that the Metalhead was the one that started it all, but the stiffee was really popular a few years later, loads of them about back then.
A mate had a Zaskar with 100mm z1s and monster wide azonic bars that pretty hooligan at the time.
Always lusted after a dekerf implant although looking at it now I’ve no idea why, it’s absolutely minging.
24 bicycles PornKing and Le Toy, think they were on Sprung 5, being hucked down, and landing on subway stair sets?
Ah, now if you’d said jump bike/DS...
Dangerous Mike?
Dialled Alpine
Came here to say this. Or SC Chameleon.
These are the "most hardcore" hardtails I've had. Cotic Soul as best allrounder.
Paaahh - rubbish the lot of them!!
UR BIK IS SARACING
We all know - as proven by many a yoof on estates around the land - that Saracens were the most hardcore bikes around and were indestructible. 🙂
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Spooky Metalhead - still got mine albeit not built up - still got the Z1's that were on it as well. Loved that bike and it took an absolute kicking, raced DH on it, dirt jumps etc etc.
Crazy how short all these DJ bikes were, knees hurt just looking at them!
Behold. The Norco Sasquatch.
I had one with Z1 Bombers. I did not own anyone with them, sadly.
I'm a 29er rider at 6ft3 but my friend had one of these and it was the first 650b bike that ever tempted me!
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Stock photo, not sure about the orange wheels but that paint job is just amazing
I loved my P1, running 9 speed it was great for playing around in the woods or XC rides over the Purbecks
I snapped a zaskar and metalhead, both at the head tube, one JRA after loads of abuse and the other I hit a parked car 😂
there was a big scene of ridiculous hardtails for a year or so early 2000's
I had a blackmarket mob as well but that was more a pure DJ frame than a hardcore hardtail
definitely Kona Roast/Chute. I briefly worked in the workshop of 2nd level sport (old kona importer) in 2000-2001 and picked up a brown Roast frame and 2 of the black Chute frames for £50 each, they had been returned for minor warranty reasons. I still have the 2 chute frames and last I heard the Roast had been sold on a few times and was still going strong many years later. All 3 frames regularly used with long travel forks including Junior T triple-clamps and Psylos, Magura Wotan and others - all very "beta version" forks which took a lot of fettling to keep working but I guess they all were back then. Anyway the frames survived many of those forks, and trips to the alps.
That sprung clip I mentioned. I hurt watching those landings, these days.
black Chute frames
I had one of them nicked 😭
Was waiting for someone to post a norco.
A mate had one, my god it was heavy. Almost needed 2 people to put it on an uplift
Dialled Bikes Alpine
Spooky Metal Head is the undisputed king IMHO.
With an honorable mention to anything those loons from 24 cycles were producing around the early 2000's, loved that Sprung segment.
That sprung clip I mentioned. I hurt watching those landings, these days.
Really? It looks so tame these days, folk are landing stuff on BMXs now that folk were doing on DH bikes back then.
I had a Le Toy 3 that got stolen, was a hard ass bike but never felt particularly lively on street. On a DH track it was a monster though.
Porn Kings were DJ/Street specific IIRC hence the weird geo.
I had a GT Moto jump bike with was basically a beefed up Little Zaskar and fitted 130-140 forks on it, 2.5 high rollers and then thrashed it everywhere until it got nicked.
My brother had one of those ‘aggressive XC’ Marin WildCats and for Devon that was a much more sensible bike. When he got it nicked at Uni he used the insurance money to buy a Small Norco Torrent/Sasquatch(?) and that thing was a beast. I dug it out a few years ago and rode it as an XC bike a few times (with 160mm z1s, single rear brake and 780mm bars and it was a struggle but way more fun than everyone else on their skinny XC bikes). I donated it to a local shop to pass on to any kids wanting a bike but with no money and I think there’s a ‘yoof’ in the Yate area still thrashing it about. Indestructible.
I think the Metalhead, the Zaskar (in small) and the DMR Trailstar, Norco Sasquatch/Rampage/Toreent or Charge Blender get my vote.
Currently riding a slacked out Calibre Line 29 as my hardcore hardtail nowadays, it’s got better geometry, components and the same travel than my Moto but modern hard tails are a totally different game. I still fancy building up an old 26 bike for pump tracks and pottering around with my kids as the 29er is a bit quick for bimbling with 2-3 year olds following.
Doesn’t get much more hardcore than an Evil Imperial
Banshee Morphine called and asked her place to be vacated immediately xD
Cheers!
I.
Think this is my favourite thread in a long time. So many great bikes i'd totally forgotten about over the years.
Thinking about it most of my hardtails have been hardcore of some variety.
Planet X Bommer (On One Gimp with vertical dropouts) - cracked and folded on Fort William WC. Got a crash replacement and sold it.
24 Le Toy 3 - went through a few iterations then settled on some NOS Z1 CR QR20s, utter brilliant. stolen a couple of months later.
.243 Freeride - probably the hardest of the bunch. Weighed a ton and was utterly awful to ride any distance but was a hoot. Didn't help I had the steel cruiser bars and kit to go with. Sold that eventually. If anyone knows Tony Fong and he still has it tell him I'd have it back off him!
DMR Trailstar LT - still have it, only changed a couple of drivetrain parts but it's the same as the day I got it. Been everywhere and it can be hard work but so much fun. Currently in bits.
Have a Chameleon 5 at the moment as I fancied something lighter, not had a proper thrash on it though thanks to lockdown.
.243 Freeride – probably the hardest of the bunch. Weighed a ton and was utterly awful to ride any distance but was a hoot. Didn’t help I had the steel cruiser bars and kit to go with. Sold that eventually. If anyone knows Tony Fong and he still has it tell him I’d have it back off him!
I know someone who still rides one of those. Bloody horrible little thing that weighs a tonne. He's also 6'6" and much better at jumping then me. I'm sure he only rides it to annoy me.
So subjective since what constitutes a hardcore hardtail seems to differ so much from person to person.
1990s. Spooky Metalhead.
2000s. DMR Trailstar.
2010s. BTR Ranger.
HM. Cotic Bfe.
On the more modern side the Stif Morf is the best HT I’ve ever owned. Not sure if classes as hardcore though. If I get another MTB it’s going to be the Stif Squatch
I have, in my workshop, one of the original 100 Trailstar frames DMR made. They ordered 50 with vertical dropouts and a BMX BB she’ll and 50 with vertical dropouts and a MTB BB.
I had it respected and got some of the original decals from DMR themselves (they said it was their last set!) but I’ve never built it up and ridden it.
They only ordered 100 as they didn’t know if the hardcore hardtail thing would catch on....
Should really sell it!
I'm still riding my Cannondale Beast of the east from 97, its an absolute weapon of a bike 18" frame. Unstoppable.
I'm going with Ragley Mmmbop and Dialled Alpine respectively, honourable mention to the Orange Crush
2 i have owned (still own in 1 case) are well up there.
On one 456 summer season. So stiff it felt like it was made of granite, plowed through most stuff and frame was capable of taking a beating.
Current Production Privee Shan. 160mm fork, agressive geo and rides everything that can be thrown at it.
Both real as steel can offer.
The hardtail frame that had the biggest impact on me was my 99 Zaskar LE. I'd ridden a trail the day before on my 95' Pantera, then built all the components onto the Zaskar and it was loads faster and much more composed going on the same trails.
If course, it probably wasn't, but it felt awesome to ride at the time.
HT frames I've had since are quite numerous but stand out ones are;
On One 456 carbon. Very rigid and direct. Flew around trail centres and was incredible to ride when it was wet on the ground for some reason.
Mk1 Ragley Piglet. Stood out for all the wrong reasons. Heavy, dead to ride and nasty paint job but it was a hardcore beast as it would steam roller everything.
And the two current bikes, SC Chameleon Carbon - built with plus tyres it rides well and is forgiving to a degree. Just feels nice everywhere and very planted downhill.
On One Whippet (new one). Not hardcore at all and only ridden rigid with 1x10 and SS so far but it feels like a great mix between old school lightness and direct with newer geometry and bigger wheels for ride position and feel. Brought back memories of Zaskar Esque light weight as I could feel it accelerate with every push on the pedals. Have suspension forks on it now but not ridden them yet.
On One 456, summer season and C456 (which I’ve had for years, or will until it sells) fit this mould for me. I’ve always wanted a go on a Ragley Ti Piglet.
anyone that's saying dialled or cotic, or production privee need to leave this thread 😂
Judging by how fast I've seen it ridden it has to be a Giant STP, bald Maxxis tyres pumped up to 40psi and 100mm forks that barely move. Its not about the bike.
Several kilos of Easton Rad
Before you could get properly designed hardcore hardtails everyone had or wanted a zaskar.
Ragley also had the Bagger and Troof steel and alu frames from about 10-11 years ago which were designed around a 160mm fork.
I can't believe it took until page 2 to mention On One 456. I loved my carbon version, still got it, so light, but could bash it about
Has the "worst case" or "heaviest use case changed?
Those boat anchor gusseted bikes from the past, are they more suited to urban hucks to flat or hardtail downhill than a suitable modern Cotic, Stanton, DMR etc hardcore hardtail?
Or has the design technology moved on?
I over-indulged in the hardcore hardtail scene for a while, the bike I always wanted (before I saw sense and just bought a full suss) was the Clifcat Tankass
Wish I could find a picture of my old Kona Scab, that was a burly wee beast...
This thread needs more close ups of gussets and bracing/ strengthening features. The more welding beads the better
I've got a Mk1 Trailstar in the garage, and a Mk2. Just about to go for a ride on it now.
My Identiti Mr Hyde was a chunky beast!
I had a Mr Hyde too. That back end was super solid.
On One 456 Summer Season with 160mm Marzocchi 66 RC2X, went through anything in it's way. I say this every time but it's the one bike I should never have split/sold.
Another vote for the LT Trailstar
Bought when I first started riding at Chicksands. Rode all the big ladder and 'log' drop on it. Reckon my knees would explode now. Also it was once run over by another bike which dented the TT near the head tube junction. Put a sticker on it and 5 years later, still going!
Gave it away, but it's still getting used locally. Somewhere I have a blurry pic of my best ever bunnyhop.. such short chainstays, even I could manual it at will.
Also little known brand Atomlab
Had two, neither were straight. Seemed to get good reviews tho (2004 ish)
And the one that started it all, my £100 'Chicky Special'
Ended up being my London commuter. Never saw a set of steps it didn't want to charge down 🙂
Had a Saracen Zen in the 00's - used to keep up the Orange 5's and Marin's of the day in the Lakes no problem. 2.4 tyres and a pike fork, made the inbred I had before it feel like a boat anchor.
Sold it to someone off here I think, should have sold my Dialled Prince Albert instead, that's pretty handy too, just not as much fun
Something from the North Shore, a Banshee Morphine probably. From new it looks like it's been repaired a few times by the local Gusset Welder.
2 pages in & not a mention of anything from Sick?