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Run 7 and his riding mate Olly came down and crashed on the steep techie section, about the 12th person we'd seen crash on that bit.
3s later my lad stacks it about 4' earlier than Olly.
Sadly for us it was a bigger one and he ended up in an ambulance for 45 mins. Thoughts were of possible breaks as he took a while to get much in the way of moving
Happily it's just cuts and bruises and assuming he can walk tomorrow he's got the all clear to ride.
My son did a season with 3 local downhills and 3 enduros in the tweed valley . He won one of the short enduros as was slightly older at 16 than the real fast guys who were all 15 . He got older discovered Girls and ganja and now just breaks his bones for fun instead of results. Fast forward a couple of years since he raced and my mates sons are 13 and 15 . Like my son they have raced SDA and the tweedlove enduros . In my eyes they are younger and at a higher level to my boy . At the enduros they do brilliantly ranging between 5th and 12th in a strong field at the SDA's they are down the list as It is a totally different mentality . As a result I think next year they will concentrate on the enduro side . Two of my mates had their sons racing since they were 10 to finally losing all interest at around 15 /16. They just got jaded their dads are normal guys not motocross dads with loads of money . The thing was the kids they raced with in the end weren't their pals and woudln't track walk with anyone in case they gave away lines etc. As someone stated please dont become one of these , Look at guys like Reece Wilson a former world champ who is sound and that way because his dad didn't blow smoke up his arse and put pressure on him .
Good luck to your son though he seems to have talent , From riding down in the tweed valley we have all watched for years the young guys from since they were 10 to now riding junior world cups . Just a shame they are the same age as jackson Goldstone.
Well he's up, dressed, we've vacated the room and we're about to head to track. Race time!
Hope he enjoys it, keep us updated. 👍
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[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/51453239351/ ]2021-09-12_09-30-16[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url] - [url= https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dariogf.flickr2BBcode_lite ]Flickr2BBcode LITE[/url]
He's out but after run 1 isn't exactly flowing with confidence.
Practice run 1 is done.
Race run 1 is 12:01
From my experiences with my son who has been diving for ten years. It has to be fun, that's the only way they'll stick with it. Results on the way up aren't that important. The kids with pushy parents generally don't go the distance, it's horrible seeing parents and kids shouting and bawling at each other at competitions. One thing I've noticed from his training which I think might be transferable is how much time they spend doing the basics, drills they've been doing from the start. If they've had a break for holidays etc there's a lot of focus on those basic drills before they get back to the harder stuff. Or if they're having trouble with a dive they break it down and work on the different parts. That's something I try and do as a mtber, ride easier trails so you can think about what you're doing, or ride a little slower and then build back up.
Run 2 done. Course like talcum powder everywhere.
Run 2 seems better in his head and he looked good out there compared to run1.
Race run 1 completed. Both riders down to the bottom without issue.
We need an update 🙂
Apologies. We then had to pack up and get home, it's a long drive back.
Race 2 didn't quite work, he got tangled up with tape/pole and lost a bit of time, despite feeling he did better on the rest of it, he didn't improve his time.
However, talking to the Marshall who watched him this morning in practice and was chatting to him was interesting as he said on run 1 the boy stopped at the top of the section he crashed on and looked super nervous, they chatted and the Marshall was 100% sure my lad was going to bail and fire road it down. The suddenly he says "ok, let's go" and went flying down.
To then do 2 race runs was awesome from him.
We're back home now and he's properly delicate and can barely move, so I'm proper proud of him for taking the pain and putting it in.
We're both a little surprised at the pace of his opponents, but it's why we went racing and why we've got the next 4 weekends racing.
We’re both a little surprised at the pace of his opponents
I think this will always be the case with riding and trying to work out how to channel this as future mental drive rather than it being demotivating for the kids is important.
I'm trying to take a step back from my kids riding and following the Jolanda Neff attitude that skills is better than younger age cardio and let the kids dictate their riding with fun as a focus rather than looking at results inside the tape. I do look forwards to the kids being of age that they can go to the season long event series, but unless we have a decent group of kids who gel together and have a blast doing it, I think for my guys it would be counter productive.
I'm massively jealous of both my kids steeziness on a bike, but more than aware there's loads more steezy kids out there too.
The other trouble is that unless you have access or the ability to put your riders into a significant amount of on-the-bike time in varied/extreme terrain then theres already a kid better suited to achieving in races. There's a reason Finn Iles, Jackson Goldstone, Jesse Melamed etc are where they are.
But that's not to say that podium results are the only reason to participate. As my grandparents used to say, "Its the taking part that counts"
hope you guys continue to enjoy racing and the time together too!
Nice one Weeksy. Very inspiring.
( and also in awe of the amount of time you spend sorting your son's bike out so he can compete)
The terrain was tough on the bike actually. His rear caliper mount bolt came loose and have him a squeal at the end of practice. Along with his main pivot bolt being slightly loose.
Talking to parents was awesome, so so friendly and helpful, honestly stunned with how nice they were. But also eyes opened with some of them, glentress, inners, South Wales, the Hamsterley in 4 consecutive weekends. Another had 26 out of the next 52 weekends booked away as they race 4X too.
Financially, emotionally and in terms of a family, that's not a road we're prepared to go down.
We also had a chat about him feeling bad as I wasn't able to race this weekend, which I think will lead us into Enduro more than DH after this year I think. We both love spending time together and riding.
There was also the "if you don't wanna race, that's cool, we'll just go playing" which I thought I ought to mention.
The last thing coming up is bike debates, with the 2105/16 SWorks coming to an end in terms of sizing for him, it's something we need to consider for next year too, DH or 170mm enduro as the options for example. But that's a whole other thread sometime.
Overall though we both had a fab weekend away and dont regret a second of it. Lessons learned for both me, him and out riding mate/parent.
Well done both. I’m sure that the race was an eye opener. You think you’re pretty good, then watching properly fast riders in the flesh is mind blowing. I think the main thing at that age is if it stops becoming fun then best to have a rethink. Ride for fun, and if the results come, then great.
Couple of other things to consider. Kids that age differ considerably physically. A mate of mine has a lad of a similar age and he’s already about my size and built like a tank, much more power to muscle a bike around than a smaller lad of the same age which can make a big difference riding DH than riding smooth bike parks and jumps.
Second thing is the experience of riding different terrain. Riding bike parks is great, but most of the runs are well groomed and flowy. Great fun but leaves a big gap in the DH skill set if you don’t spend a lot of time on steep / tech runs. I feel that a lot of riders can look great in the park and then struggle on more natural terrain if they don’t normally ride it. If you go to BPW as much as it’s nice to ride the flow trails, sessioning the tech reds and blacks is going to reap rewards. Locally I’m not too sure where to suggest, but if you get to the Surrey Hills spend some time on the steep side of pitch hill for example.
Bike wise, personally I think the versatility of a modern enduro bike is hard to beat. You won’t lose a lot DH, especially in this country, and still have a bike you can ride around. Unless of course you have the cash to drop on 2 bikes. Ignore this if the aim is to be at the pointy end of national level DH races as appreciate dedicated equipment is important here.
Best of luck for the next few weeks.
There's deffo no scope for 2 bikes in this house, so what we get is what we'll use, but that's a fair way away, maybe winter, but deffo no changes right now.
Finding terrain like this is not easy locally, well, impossible actually. FoD on the Ski Run etc is about the best I can think of. But still not really comparable.
The trails changed massively in the 48 hours we were there, just run after run changes them lots.
Fascinating thread! Cheers 😊
Talking to parents was awesome, so so friendly and helpful, honestly stunned with how nice they were. But also eyes opened with some of them, glentress, inners, South Wales, the Hamsterley in 4 consecutive weekends. Another had 26 out of the next 52 weekends booked away as they race 4X too.
See my comment about buying a caravan and being prepared to travel....
I too think you need to keep it fun.
One day however, if you think he still wants to go places, you may end up back at that decision.
We’re both a little surprised at the pace of his opponents, but it’s why we went racing and why we’ve got the next 4 weekends racing.
As you alluded to, the quick ones (whatever their age) are committed to racing a lot in season - and if they arnt racing, they are uplifting on top.
Also the ‘depth of speed’ is far greater at a DH race than pretty much any enduro I’ve done (bar EWS’s!). The mindset is different as is the approach - although unless you are right at the top the transfer of skills is really beneficial.
Finding terrain like this is not easy locally, well, impossible actually. FoD on the Ski Run etc is about the best I can think of. But still not really comparable.
There are bucket loads of places in the FoD that have some savage tracks, but they arnt exactly on the map, so not quite so easy to find. Also not much further in the Cwmcarn/Risca valley there are trails everywhere that make Caersws look like the Swinley Blue.
Time to go exploring…
Really interesting to read this. Got friends with kids at the pointy end of national level swimming, my two aren't sporty as such but regional/national with their things, and it's great to support them find their level at what they do, wherever that may be
One minor thing we picked up on, the boy is riding his bars with a load sticking out the sides.
https://www.rootsandrain.com/photos/6299370
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51462328441_20498d8909_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51462328441_20498d8909_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mpxTjR ]bars[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
We've also discussed it before but never changed anything, however this time, looking at his pics i have a spare set of bars in the box that are about the right length. He's running 780s currently and they're closer to 720mm (with the extra length of grips) so i think we'll give it a try for today/this week depending on when he can try them and ride.
He's up and about today, but only just... so maybe today won't be the plan lol.
I've got an hour after meetings with the bike today, cleaning sorting, checking stuff like pads, wheels, nuts and bolts etc... make sure it's all good for weekend.
You never know, i may even get to see my own bike again one day.
I see a lot of kids riding bars too wide. Locked elbows and angled wrists - not good for rough riding.
Some of the holding bars further in can be related to brake and shifter location, even having long grips.
Some of the holding bars further in can be related to brake and shifter location, even having long grips.
OF course, we'll be looking into brake and shifter positions a little more today too i agree.
We did a test with 2 sets of bars where he closed his eyes and grabbed the bars where it feels 'right'. Both sets of bars showed he's likely running them too wide currently.
👌
In terms of terrain there is loads around FOD and Cwmcarn. Not the marked trails so much.
FOD I’d think Corkscrew is more challenging than Ski Run - especially in the wet with all the roots. There is loads of off piste stuff spread all over FOD - it’s just finding it. Loads of steep rooty tech that I’m well out of my comfort zone on - but it’s good for development. Mallards is easy stuff to find - park by the lake. The stuff down to the lake is the more mellow stuff - off to the right is quite a bit steeper.
I think Staunton is the main area with sketchy stuff but I’ve not been there yet myself to explore. If you know anyone that knows the area that’s useful. There are some Bird owners people who live / know the area - might be worth posting something on the FB owners club and see if someone will show you the more difficult stuff.
Nearer the trail centre there are a couple of enduro runs - red and black that are sort of marked. Then if you follow that fire road from the bottom a bit further away from pedalaway there are some cheeky trails up to the right. They always seem to change so it’s just follow your nose and go down stuff and see what occurs.
For longer / steeper / rockier stuff then I’m told Risca (off the other side of Cwmcarn) is mental. Brace yourself for a lot of climbing though - big brutal climbs back up. Maybe you could use the uplift there somehow - you have the main DH run but maybe you could somehow link it to some off piste. I’m noticed on the Twrch trail there is some unmarked stuff off to the left off the start of airstream 2 - and then off to the left of the first part of the final descent. Looks proper steep.
Not in the same category as those 2 places but Nibley just outside of Bristol has steep tech rooty stuff - none of it is fast though really as all quite short.
And then BPW - don’t do the flow stuff - find the most tech / rocky stuff and session that.
cheers Joe. A lot of what we go looking for in the future will depend upon what we end up doing in terms of discipline, be that Enduro or DH. No point finding impossible descents if carrying speed is more that's required and vice versa of course. Until we get this next 3-4 weekends done, we don't actually know the answer to that question.
It was funny at one stage, me and his mates dad asked the boys. "Would we be able to get down it"
They laughed....actually laughed at us... "No, you'd only get down in an ambulance"
I don't doubt them for a second lol.
I think the FOD stuff in particular would be useful for enduro - getting used to gnarly roots and steeper chutes etc can only help.
The DH trail at Cwmcarn is probably useful if you go the DH root.
Edit - I guess what I’m trying to say is there are plenty of trails between those 2 places if you look for it.
Also, if you can find some other people to ride with it can re-calibrate your mindset as to where you are actually at. I feel like over the last few years I’ve massively improved both in technical skills and fitness - yet some of the lads I rode with are still so far ahead it’s untrue. Riding with people who are significantly better drags you along and improves you mostly. A mate and I walked up a couple of the trails at FOD a few weeks ago and talked through some lines - there was one corner someone posted on ski run a few weeks ago on the FOD Facebook page and by chance we came across it. When I got to it I was much faster with no hesitation than previous efforts. So on actual race weekends I’d suggest there’s a lot of benefit to walking the trail with your lad and working out different ways through things.
Part of his inward holding on the bars looks to me like because he’s needing to use 2 fingers on the lever. Maybe it’s a strength thing for a youngster. Worth checking that too.
Anyway, it’s his first full-on dh race, must be loads of positives to take from that, regardless if the result wasn’t up to expectations!
I think the FOD stuff in particular would be useful for enduro – getting used to gnarly roots and steeper chutes etc can only help.
Yeah we've ridden both on and off-piste areas at FoD a fair bit in the last few years. This weekends race is also at FoD
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/events/details/248372/MIJ-FOREST-OF-DEAN---FREEDOM-AT-LAST
But we don't have any information on whether it's off-piste, dedicated trail, at FoD itself, or slightly off-site... dunno. Waiting for a reply to an email on that one.
Along with sitting here working out where to demo/hire a DH bike lol.
Or buying something with longer travel...
Obviously it's all a bit excessive doing that... but you know me by now, i do like to go all in with my random ideas, there's no half measures 🙂
DH bikes are meant to be another level for DH racing - but if you can only have one bike for everything that’s going to make enduro / general mucking about not a lot of fun.
There are loads of enduro bikes out now with 170f / 160r travel and slack angles that’ll be an awesome all round tool. Especially if you go 29er (if he’s big enough for the bigger wheel etc) - my mate recently got a Slash 29er (2021 model) and he’s blindingly quick on the thing. The lines he can get away with are outrageous.
Yeah i think the 29er thing isn't an option yet... he's only 5'5 or so and whilst i see a 29er CAN fit someone that size, i'm not sure i want to throw such a radical difference into the discussion yet.
I do appreciate that the DH bike limits many many other things though, so i don't see us going down that route yet.. But would be nice if we could find one to hire/demo outside of a trail-center so we could actually use it for an event. But they seem to only have them at Revolution and BPW.... But i don't really want to jump in and buy one for very limited use. If we live in north wales, hmmm maybe.. but leafy west Berks, nah, i'm not seeing it. LOL.
But we don’t have any information on whether it’s off-piste, dedicated trail, at FoD itself, or slightly off-site… dunno. Waiting for a reply to an email on that one.
It will be on one (or a mash up of a few) of the old Mini Enduro/Mini DH trails over by Y2K. Events are contained to the cycle centre by Forestry. They are only allowed to use official, or tolerated/adopted old locals trails.
It’s not proper off piste, or where the spicy stuff is. If you want a taster for some, ask away - I am more than happy to show people some of the lesser ‘locals only’ trails, but you will have to pedal some punchy climbs.
I think we're going to go over on Saturday as they're taping it up for Sat to allow practice. One thing this weekend did teach me is how important practice is for people who don't know courses. Whilst his race runs were off the pace, his practice runs were a lot closer and he took 15s from morning to afternoon off his times. We'd wondered whether we were going to head over on Sat but this weekend cemented the idea that it's a good plan.
If you're about on Sat and fancy coming to give him some tips watching him, that'd be ace mate... or indeed just to ride with us and have a bit of fun too. I can't give him tips any more as i can't stay with him on the way down to watch and see, maybe you can do based upon some of your posts.
If the trail is open all day Saturday it’s well worth pushing up alongside it before riding it (obvs out the way of people riding down) to identify any tricky bits and workout a few lines to try through it. 100% will make him faster and he’ll enjoy it more not riding it blind.
Part of his inward holding on the bars looks to me like because he’s needing to use 2 fingers on the lever. Maybe it’s a strength thing for a youngster. Worth checking that too.
Yup, that braking needs fixed right away. DH and Enduro both need a good grip on the bars and 2-finger braking really diminishes that (and therefore control). He’ll need a bit of practice and the setup (in/out position and level reach) will likely need adjusted, but it is an absolute must
One thing this weekend did teach me is how important practice is for people who don’t know courses.
Not sure if I mentioned this before - “track walk” 😉
For the bike dilemma, if 2 bikes isn’t a goer. Then how about Enduro bike + a set of DH wheels and tyres?
he never ever uses 2 fingers... but this was daft steep and i think with him feeling delicate and also a bit daunted by it he ended up going harder than usual on the levers. It's not how he rides 99.9% of the time.
https://www.rootsandrain.com/photos/6297160
urgh, that wont've felt nice then! Bit of a spiral of doom; feel bad > compromise position and control > feel worse. I would also completely ignore that photo as well in that case, he'll have needed to move his hands in order to 2-finger brake. I know I couldn't do it on my own bike without having to shuffle my hands inboard.
If we live in north wales, hmmm maybe.. but leafy west Berks, nah, i’m not seeing it. LOL
Only one thing for it then! You'll have to move!
Nothing to add to the conversation - my son is only 7 - but nice to see the support you are giving him! Picking my son up from school on Friday and one of the Mum's was saying she wont spend 5 mins each evening reading with her child as she isnt a teacher. She didnt seem to get that being a parent is about giving your child the best opportunities that you as a parent can (whether that is limited by time, money etc) and to nurture them whilst letting them make their own decisions.
You seem to have got the approach right and I hope I have a similar relationship with my son in 6 years time! Good luck next weekend.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51463676328_0991bc19ce_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51463676328_0991bc19ce_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mpEN1h ]randr-photo-6297160-5568px[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
You seem to have got the approach right and I hope I have a similar relationship with my son in 6 years time
Thanks Robbo... it means a lot when people think that...
We really are best mates and get on brilliantly, it's a joy being his parent. (mostly).
i wasn't going to post this, but i'm sure he won't mind...
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51462711082_7dbe760c56_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51462711082_7dbe760c56_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mpzR57 ]2021-09-13_10-43-41[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
just gives an indication of the pain he must have been in yesterday to race... tough little bugger.
I really thought he wasn't going to race a few times.. he seemed properly worried about the section he binned it on. "shut up and get on with it you pussy" seemed to sort him out though 😀 😀
The San Miguel probably helped 🤣
he's got to learn young 🙂
Is it me, or are his brake levers wound a long way out in the above picture? That front lever looks absolutely miles away from the bar. And they're angled quite far down too... I'm not one to tell anyone else how to set their bike up (me is slow) as I know different folks make different things work...but for me those two things would make hanging on in the rough stuff far harder, and I have giant hands.
That photo (the riding one) is interesting. Looks like the levers might need wound in? Left hand is nowhere near the hook of the lever, right hand/finger looks really stretched out