[Closed] Surprised the new "Shed Fire" frame isn't being ooh-ed and aah-ed over

miketually - Member

I think it's a very pretty frame. Aesthetics are important, we just disagree on what is pretty.

Who is "we" in this context? Brant [b][i]is[/i][/b] saying that aesthetics aren't important. I'd say that for many, many bikers it is.

miketually - Member

I think it's a very pretty frame. Aesthetics are important, we just disagree on what is pretty.

Says the man with the drop-bar 29er 🙂

Aesthetics should follow function everytime.

SSP

Brant - Do you have a sideline as a cheesy TV illusionist?

He is Ted Rodgers of 3 2 1 and I claim my £5.

As for Rudeboy, I don't have a go because of who you are, I'm not like that. I have a go because you really seemed to be having a go at something you'd not really seen or knew much about. If you were only talking about aesthetics, then fine - should've made that clearer. Try starting with "from a purely aesthetic point of view..." or something.

You came over like the Harry Enfield character - "you don't wanna do it like that!". You could've said something like "Well personally I much prefer the traditional clean lines of Dekerf/Indyfab/whoever" rather than just telling Brant he's wrong.

And @AB - I don't know Brant or ride his bikes. I always spring to the defence of persons or parties that I feel are being unfairly criticised or maligned.

rather than just telling Brant he's wrong.

Where did I say he was 'wrong'?

Who is "we" in this context?

We = RudeBoy and I.

Says the man with the drop-bar 29er

I blame the designer 😉

Well personally I much prefer the traditional clean lines of Dekerf/Indyfab/whoever

I'd say this bike [i]does[/i] have clean lines. The plate is hidden behind the chainrings, so you'll barely ever see it and the rest is pretty conventional double-diamond stuff, but cleaner than most because of the unmanipulated tubes.

Personally, I think the plate-as-seatstay-bridge looks much cleaner than the lager can on the On-One Ti frames 🙂 The chainstays line up with the top tube too, which is the one (minor) irritation I have with my Solitude frame.

Where did I say he was 'wrong'?

About here:

So, a bunch of features which seem to be different, just for the sake of being different, to the detriment of the aesthetic appeal and possibly weight of the frame...

The chainstays line up with the top tube too, which is the one (minor) irritation I have with my Solitude frame.

There is a reason for that Mike. The seat stays support the top of the seat tube and allows the top tube to be dropped a little for the forward facing seat tube slot and stand over height.

SSP

It's these sort of threads that put me off posting on here more often.

'Oh yeah, those angles are all wrong, that'll be sh1t to ride.' How can you possibly tell that from a picture? Look at what you've typed. And you're compairing chainstay bridges?!? Jesus wept what next - Facebook groups to standardise bottle boss mountings? Seriously, some folks on here should spend less time typing and more time riding/working/having a life

Seriously, some folks on here should spend less time typing and more time riding/working/having a life

We do it to relieve the boredome whilst we are at work, nothing more. If I COULD go out and ride NOW, I can assure you I'd do just that!
We can't ride, so we talk about bikes. Nowt wrong with that is there?

😀

There is a reason for that Mike.

I know, that's why I don't mind it 🙂 Form, function, etc.

Actually, I think this thread is legend. Mike started it semi-tongue-cheek presumably so that we could have a fanboy collective soggy-biscuit competition over brant's new bike. But every time we do that someone pops up to say I don't like the look of it, and we get to lynch them. Brant, who often gives the impression of being drunk in charge of a computer and has a less petulant and more gonzo approach to abusing his customers than Fruit ever managed, wades in with a particularly wonderful insult which combines contempt for metrosexual southerners with a marvellous kick-off of the "form over function" debate. We may be here some time. 😉

If I COULD go out and ride NOW, I can assure you I'd do just that!

Hear hear.

And +1 for BD 🙂 (as always)

I've missed ths place... 🙂

Hardly. Been mtbing for over 20 years. Owned a fair few bikes, worked in 'the trade'.

Big deal - so have I and alot of folk on here, we just don't offer Brant et al "advice" - he actually designs and sells them (a WHOLE different ball game to riding them/working in shops) so some of us have the humility to let him get on with it.

Enjoy your retort, but I doubt I'll even bother reading it, you are just way too far up yourself.

Out of curiosity, any singlespeeds on the horizon?

Out of curiosity, any singlespeeds on the horizon?

Not from us.

You know I havent been on STW for yonks (maybe 2yrs), only came on today to see if you lot were having a gibber about Brants new frame pics. Rudeboy did you used to go under a different name 'cause I always remember some gobshite picking holes in all and sundry then having a huff 'cause your 20yrs of hardcore riding havent earned the respect they deserve?

Can I just say (and honestly I dont really know a whole lot about geometry, I just know what feels right for me) I bought a Ti456 from Brant in October, has been just loads of fun, super comfortable and made riding through the winter a joy. Where else do you get to speak to the guy who designed your bike, get some good advice about set-up and be on the recieving end of some proper left-field sarcasm.

Good luck with Shedfire fella, if the new Ti frame is half as good as the 456 you will sell loads.

As for Rudeboy, I don't have a go because of who you are, I'm not like that.

As for Rudeboy, I have a go because of who you are, I'm like that.

Very funny thread!!!

Tandems? 96ers (ask WCA)? Fixie with disc mounts? Eccentric BB shells? Or just proper frames?

...often gives the impression of being drunk in charge of a computer and has a less petulant and more gonzo approach to abusing his customers than Fruit ever managed, wades in with a particularly wonderful insult...

Sheer brilliance there, BD!

Jesus wept.... 😯

I think its unfair to brand Rudeboy as a prissy f*cker, I've ridden with him on a few occasions and I would say he does have his own valid insights into many a riding thing, that said I do disagree with the way he will flatly refuse to admit that a white lace saddle doily that requires constant adjustment and repositioning is an unnecessary distraction.

oh and Brant that head tube angle is .5 of a degree too steep! 😉

if you want a traditional frame there are plenty about, you want something that looks different from most of the others but works just as well, then i saw vive la difference!
it's certainly sparked discussion and it's not even in production, i'd have one just for the fact that it's a bit iconoclastic

Surely we won't end it on a sensible note. Or will we?

[i]Where else do you get to speak to the guy who designed your bike, get some good advice about set-up and be on the recieving end of some proper left-field sarcasm.

Good luck with Shedfire fella, if the new Ti frame is half as good as the 456 you will sell loads.[/i]
Amen.

I like it.

I think some of the tags speak more about this 'debate' than some of the actual posts..

Fortunately, there are one or two who are capable of independent thought, though.

And...

Rudeboy did you used to go under a different name 'cause I always remember some gobshite picking holes in all and sundry then having a huff 'cause your 20yrs of hardcore riding havent earned the respect they deserve?

What I find really amusing, is that people take so much notice of what some 'gobshite' writes! To remember stuff from way back. Me, I don't often pay enough attention to remember things for much more than a day or so, as most drivel on here is of such little consequence. Many people simply have absolutely nothing to say for themselves, so they just latch on to whatever seems to be the 'trendiest' school of thought on a subject.

I notice that Brant can come across as quite arrogant, no doubt due to the Fanboi following he gets on here. A following which I think is well deserved, as the stuff he markets seems to work well, and be popular with those that use it. I do think the ravings are sometimes a little disproportionate; but it's just not 'cool' to rave on about a Marin, Spesh or Trek...

I acknowledge that the 'rough and ready' approach Brant takes to 'design' is refreshing and welcomed by may people. Certainly, On-One's reputation was built on that 'let's try this see if it works' approach.

Good luck to Brant, and anyone trying to achieve something a little 'different' to the rest. Got to have a few eccentrics in shed, pottering away to come up with new ideas.

But I feel the real issue here, is that as someone who won't subscribe to the Brant Bum-Licking Society, I am therefore a Pariah, an Outcast, not one of the 'Gang'. It can be very insular on here. People who've had a pop at me have conveniently ignored the positive things I've had to say about the frame, like the use of straight rather than bendy tubes. AndI've only actually criticised two aspects of it; the seatstay plate, which I accept is a purely aesthetic issue, and the rivnut things. Personally, I've experienced and seen a lot of rivnut fittings fail. It's simply not as good a solution as welding something on. Brant himself even says that the decision to use them was a matter of cost.

I rarely post on matters bike, on here, simply because of the attitudes. there's always someone who knows better than you, or thinks you're wrong, purely because they don't want you to be right.

As for humility; I think others need to look up what that word actually means...

I do enjoy a debate, but please, people; think about stuff a bit more, before you decide to slag someone off. Try to understand their point of view, before simply dismissing them as a 'prissy f*cker' (that is such a rubbish insult anyway!).

This will probbly end when I get bored of it. Which may be soon. So youse can all go back to worriting about something else.

MrNutt: on that issue, Sir, you are wrong. Sooooo wrong.

In fact, you're probbly a racist, or something.

Thanks for the bump, fanboy.

Keep it going.

No worries, Brant. 😉

[Edited because that was personally insulting, and out of order]

all i know is that frame aint aimed at me.

im sure loads of people will be blowing their wads over it though. in fact i would bet padded puts the cash up pre production.

I've only met Brant once. I neither liked or dislike him- he seemed a good bloke though. I have to meet/get to know someone over a length of time before I form a firm opinion rather than go on first impressions.
How can you critise someone or have an opinion on someones product based on limited information??!!! 😐
If someone is local (UK-based) and not out to rip people off surely it wouldnt hurt to give their products the benefit of the doubt/lay off?
When hes swanning around in a BMW X5 and lording it over then, yes but not yet!

But I feel the real issue here, is that as someone who won't subscribe to the Brant Bum-Licking Society, I am therefore a Pariah, an Outcast, not one of the 'Gang'.

Oh sod off. I know little about Brant or his bikes, so you can count me out of that particular club. Which I think you've made up anyway.

I just took issue with the attitude that you appeared to take. Admittedly, I should've been a bit more tactful with my complaints, and I should've re-read the thread before wading in too. But I do think that a bit more diplomacy and sensitivity to the way you come over would go a long way. Unless you like getting into rows of course..?

It's nice to see that Brant is far too wise to get involved in this crap. Although having said that, if he really does drive an X5 then he's scum, naturally.

But I feel the real issue here, is that as someone who won't subscribe to the Brant Bum-Licking Society, I am therefore a Pariah, an Outcast, not one of the 'Gang'.

Surely being an Outcast means you are one of the gang...

😉

But I feel the real issue here, is that as someone who won't subscribe to the Brant Bum-Licking Society, I am therefore a Pariah, an Outcast, not one of the 'Gang'.

It looked more like you said what your issues with the frame were, Brant told you why he disagreed and why he'd made those decisions, and then you repeated why he was wrong.

Met him once, seems like a pleasant bloke.

Decent quality, well designed frames that sell for under £200, ride nicely and don't fall apart in five minutes?
Can't see the problem, frankly.

Wish he did 15 inch frames though, always fancied a 456 and the 16 inch ones are a bit too big.

Really don't understand why people get so het up about all this - just an ordinary bloke trying to do a good job, no?

Molgrips you drink too much coffee.

It's nice to see that Brant is far too wise to get involved in this crap

Erm... 😕

Brant told you why he disagreed and why he'd made those decisions, and then you repeated why he was wrong.

Nope. I disagree with him, that's all. I'm sure that frame will be just right for those that buy them.

I won't be. Simple as that.

But I'm sure he's loving this free publicity; fits right in with his 'cantankerous Yorkshireman' image.

Brant, if you want to send me a sample frame, so I can see how 'right' you are, I'll happily stick it on e-bay! 😉

Surely being an Outcast means you are one of the gang...

Oh dear. How confusing...

oooooh!!!!!!!! Aaaaaaaaaah! harder! yes! like that! Yes! yes! yes! yes! yes!!! gusset!!! ****! yes! oooooooohhhhhh yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes!! waaaahey!!!!!

In all honesty, and as a bit of a newbie to this site, I can't see why this bloke and his products seem to attract such a mixed range of opinions.

You don't see people getting all frothy and shouty over Cotic/Charge/Dialled Bikes and their designers.

I have no opinion either way, but as per Hora's post, seems only sensible to give someone the benefit of the doubt, until they prove otherwise.

RS, with time you'll learn 😉 Enjoy your innocence!

Molgrips you drink too much coffee.

Dunno what that means.

"Sorry if I sound a cock a times" - useful phrase to know, RB.

I'm sure it is, molgrips.

One, I'm sure, you use quite a lot... 😉

The door was left wide open...

One, I'm sure, you use quite a lot...

I do, frequently. I always try to apologise whenever I think I may have upset people. I've done so on this thread I think - if it wasn't clear I'll say again:

Sorry for being overly annoyed - RB did say some positive things and I'd overlooked that. I was still a bit annoyed tho which is fair.

Sorry if this is a silly question but I don't really understand bike geometry in relation to bike use; for example this bike being a steep uphill and steep downhill bike - can someone please explain? Also, what does Calderdale new school mean?!

Bike looks nice. I actually like the seat stay and chain stay thingies!

Ta

infidel - come to Calderdale (and many other gritstone edged areas) and find out quite how unbelievably steep some of the trails can be!

calderdale new school means what the other guys have already done the past year, slack steering for descending and steep seat angle for climbing, 😀 where's my handbag?

gottit. So not a south downs bike then?!!! So how do the frame angles relate to trail steepness (is steepness a real word?)

P.S. EDIT for handbag content re: above:
I think Harry the Spider has them - he can post if you like?!
If out of stock, please contact an alternative supplier such as RudeBoy or Molgrips.

Tongue firmly in cheek.

Been reading this thread on and off for a while, and I thought I'd chuck in a couple of observations. First, I really like the overall look of the frame. Aesthetics are important; I'm not an engineer, but generally when something looks right it generally is, Bauhaus School of design, fitness for purpose and all that. The drop-outs are particularly neat, and putting the brake caliper inside the seat/chainstay triangle. The chainstay/BB junction I'm in two minds about, it's very similar to Evil's Sovereign, which I like, but that extra brace looks like a horrendous mud-trap. The plate chainstay brace I'm afraid I don't like, personally, something like the X-shaped brace someone posted up early on is much nicer looking, or a slightly curved version thereof. Take a look at the wonderful curved stone butresses under the tower of Wells Cathedral, to see what I mean. The screw-in cable guides I really don't see a problem with, TBH. If running as a SS, then a couple of stainless bolts will neatly keep water out, while maintaining a nice clean looking stay, but allowing the easy replacement if going back to geared. RB's comment about them getting lost out on a ride is frankly ludicrous, because the cable would have to be removed totally from the guide to enable the guide to unscrew itsself, which I just cannot ever see happening. I happen to like Brant's frame designs, which is good as I have two of them, but that came about due to other frames not looking quite the way I wanted, which brings us back to aesthetics again. I wouldn't have bought a Cotic, because I don't like normal wishbone stays, but I do like De Kerf stays. When I bought my first one I wanted a dedicated SS frame, and I would have prefered a Dialled, but Mike doesn't do singlespeeds, so they're out as well, which meant an 853 tubed SS for £250 suited me just fine. The fact that a great many people had bought On-Ones and seemed to be happy gave me confidence. As it turned out the bike fitted me perfectly and is an absolute delight to ride. Brant has done cycling a great service by creating a brand of bike that has a hugely enthusiastic following due to neat design, good construction, and great ride qualities, all from his shed, which must have encouraged the other 'cottage industry' brands like Cotic, Dialled, Singular, etc, which is good for everyone on here not wanting to be stuck with what a designer in Marin County thinks British mountain bikers want. I love my two 'Breds, and will enthuse about them to anyone who'll listen, and if RB wants to interpret that as arse-kissing sycophancy, well, it's still, nominally, a free country with something that passes for free speech, so he's quite within his rights to. Perhaps, though, he'd like to sit down and design a product, put it into production then open it up to the public jury that's the STW massive and suffer the same sort of critism.

Thanks for that CZ.

Can you find me a link to the Wells Cathedral buttresses. I remember seeing (ironically) Fred Dibnah do a TV programme on them but can't see them right now. There was a similarly fascinating bit on a repeat of COAST last night where they were speaking about the guy who designed the first lighthouse down Cornwall way, who used the shape of an oak tree as the profile, for strength.

Bauhaus eh? Crikey.

Can't wait for the steel and alloy ones to appear - they're more representative of what I'm intending doing - it's only the fact that I kick Lynskey so hard, and they're so great at prototyping that this appeared first - but as I say - common features in all the models.

CountZero - Well put...good post

[i]I remember seeing (ironically) Fred Dibnah do a TV programme on them[/i]

😆

[img] [/img]

how has no one noticed his:

...................................................................................................
brant - Member

Out of curiosity, any singlespeeds on the horizon?

Calderdale Nu-skool is all about the gears innt! 😉

Aesthetics & Bauhaus aside (never liked them after they murdered Ziggy), did Mike's question in the original post get answered?

Crikey, they're impressive.

Does it matter if it didn't?

Brant, get your act together and give us a singlespeed. Or at least a tandem.

Singlespeed schminglespeed.

And that is truly beautiful irony brant indeed.

I have a geared frame by Brant - 456SE, so will want a schminglespeed too. And a tandem one day 😈

I rather like the look of the frame although I'd be after something in steel. However, 140mm forks is rather too long for me, I'm still running 100s and am wondering whether there might be something in the pipeline (more at the standard Inbred end of the scale) that'd work with shorter travel forks.

Is it shedfire, Shed Fire or Shedfire?

Non of the above.

It's sausagefire isnt it?

So far so good! But what do you think of that frame with those bars?

The screw-in cable guides I really don't see a problem with, TBH. If running as a SS, then a couple of stainless bolts will neatly keep water out, while maintaining a nice clean looking stay, but allowing the easy replacement if going back to geared. RB's comment about them getting lost out on a ride is frankly ludicrous, because the cable would have to be removed totally from the guide to enable the guide to unscrew itsself, which I just cannot ever see happening.

Looks OK to me, but I am not really one to pick things to bits and look at every bit of the aesthetic this that and the other. (Which is probably why i ride a battered 8yr old Stumpjumper).

Seatstay bridge - looks OK to me. A little cut-out in it of a shed on fire (or a naked woman) would be nice, but obviously cost more. Whatever, it's a little bit of metal.

Chainstay thingummy....it does it's job and looks a bit different. My concern with it would be in places like Thetford where the mud is mixed with long piney tree bits it forms a goopy mesh (like a composite) that sits on things like that chainstay prongy assembly and quickly builds up. Thing is, the only bike I have seen that doesn't this kind of problem to the same extent as most bikes is an Orange 5.

As for the cable guide bits....so long as they are put in carefully when first built I don't see the problem. When the bike is contructed, they won't really show as the cables will virtually cover them, the won't come out as the guide won't be able to rotate about the cable and when purple anodising comes back you can buy some nice purple cable guides to go with your purple bars, brake levers, pedals, hubs, cranks etc.

Chainstay thingummy....it does it's job and looks a bit different. My concern with it would be in places like Thetford where the mud is mixed with long piney tree bits it forms a goopy mesh (like a composite) that sits on things like that chainstay prongy assembly and quickly builds up. Thing is, the only bike I have seen that doesn't this kind of problem to the same extent as most bikes is an Orange 5.

I don't think it would collect debris any more than any other chainstay bridge design. It's more about the clearance, which is big.

So can I get one in Oz?

I don't think it would collect debris any more than any other chainstay bridge design.

I think stumpy01 acknowledged that.

Of course, not all bikes have a chainstay bridge.

my two penny's worth - I've no idea what the guides actually look like, but tbh, there's other bolts on the bike I'd be WAY more worried about coming loose mid ride. Like stem bolts. And brake caliper bolts.... none of those have come loose on a ride before (and don't bother me), so the a bolt holding a hose/cable on really wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

In fact, I really like the idea

Those bars struck a chord ! I have a pair in my garage which were a prototype from either PX or O-O and they are a [b]very[/b] similar shape except on mine the tubes are continued to make a clamping area + a top brace.

Strongest and definitely the heaviest bars I have ever owned and would certainly live up to the sales tag of [i]"would be good in a fight"[/i] 😯

Brant, can you have the option of having something laser cut into that seatstay bridge plate? Own design supplied (subject to engineering requirements) or a logo or something.

Or maybe just something etched in there if removing material would be a problem.

Brant, can you have the option of having something laser cut into that seatstay bridge plate?

Of course. But I'm not sure what, if anything.

cup of tea?

Just been having a look at those bars on Twitpic.

Why???????????????????????

Does that design make them stiffer, cheaper to make (weld vs bend), lighter?

Not sure I get it. Afraid I don't like the look either, makes them appear unfinished.

There's a news story on the front page of this site mavisto.

There's a news story on the front page of this site mavisto.

God help us if this went off topic 😉

Cheers Kelvin.

Unfortunately there's not much more info.

Built by Lynskey usually means they're made well and will be super light, just don't like the look. Reminds me of my motocross bars with the bottom cut off.

just a question though why is the top tube not bent?
IIRC you said for the 456 titanium frame that it was better lighter stronger?

IIRC you said for the 456 titanium frame that it was better lighter stronger?

you don't recall correctly then 🙂

where will i be able to buy a hebden bridge from?