[Closed] Strava alternative for offroad downhills?

(Aside from riding with your mates or entering an actual event, that is - I take it as given that either of these are a different, and obviously better thing).

re make the segment? I think you can also appeal the dangerous if it is actually safe ie. not crossing stuff etc. not a really popular route in both directions - you also wouldn't be racing down blind bridleways etc would you?

I also see this thread ending badly but only after 15 pages...

How do you appeal? Does it involve emailing them?

PS have fun with your 15 page epic, just remember I asked a question that has a simple unambiguous answer in spite of my biased wording 🙂

yes there are humans at the other end of the interweb and they are really helpful!

unlike the idiotic Strava system, actually allows you to compete on xc/dh segments that one person one time thought were dangerous?

I'm a bit ambivalent about strava for road or XC uphill but racing downhill on public trails is soooo dodgy.

So flagging takes one click and appealing takes an email - guess which side will win...

So flagging takes one click and appealing takes an email - guess which side will win...

Common Sense

I'm a bit ambivalent about strava for road or XC uphill but racing downhill on public trails is soooo dodgy.

sideshow - Member
So flagging takes one click and appealing takes an email - guess which side will win...

There's a number of popular off road routes and DH tracks on Strava and other sites as Segments, if they're not already there or some paranoid individual has flagged a segment as dangerous you can re-create the segment from your own logged rides...

However...

...allows you to compete ...

I think you've fundamentally misunderstood the whole point of Strava/Endomondo/sports tracker/map my Ride/IP Bike/etc... They're all just GPS logging apps and your place on a table on the interwebz isn't actual [I]Competition[/I]. At best it's an indication of your speed compared relative to others. you can take that data and do what you like with it... but it's not a real Race or competition, call it "Training"...

How about riding down them quickly? One mans quick and controlled is a lot faster than some biffers racing

I don't really have strong feelings about strava (enough to comment on this thread obviously) but I just don't think DH should be on there. Sure idiots can be idiots without help but inciting/encouraging* people to do dodgy stuff is a bit off.

*I'd say publicly posting a leaderboard and listing times falls into this classification.

At the risk of stoking the hornets nest-

How do you search for downhill segments on Strava?

I have no interest in racing, just finding trails

do segment explore and set the Catagory to zero (no climbing) they should pop up, in reality it's a bit hit and miss as to what is and isn't a segment, then you should be able to back track into the ride itself from the leaderboard to see what they are. But obviously in the UK it's about the same as looking at a map in most areas, finding a ROW and seeing if it points down. You have no idea if it's any good till you ride it.

How do you search for downhill segments on Strava?

Segment search same as any other. You'll have to work out for yourself if its up or down.

I have no interest in racing, just finding trails

[i]hypothetically[/i] you could look for a hilly area, narrow your search to flat/downhill segments (i.e. exclude categorised climbs), switch to satellite view to allow higher magnification, and then pan around until you find the most ridden trails, making sure they have the right kinda gradient, identify when they have been ridden quickly, and by whom, find the next climb, plan the next descent (especially the end of the segment!), and see how many achievements you can rack up over your strava-optimised route.

I couldn't possibly condone this sort of behaviour though.

[img] [/img]
Sorry it's U rather than Zero

I find the Strava Heatmap best for finding trails;

http://raceshape.com/heatmap/

Using the actual Strava site the segments seem to appear and disappear totally randomly based on your zoom level.

Cheers Chaps,

Sorry for the hijack OP...

All rather faffy - I have found trails in this manner myself, though at the cost of more screen-gazing in the great outdoors than I would like. A downhill-oriented strava (which alas nobody has yet told me exists) would do well from allowing users to rate trails for quality and difficulty and colour them according to their scores on these fronts.

(A bit more like UKC logbooks but with timing right..?)

Strava is based in the US isn't it. Good luck with waiting for common sense to prevail.

Using the actual Strava site the segments seem to appear and disappear totally randomly based on your zoom level.

Most popular segments isn't it?

An easier way than repeatedly searching is to find who's KOM on a few known downhill runs, then look through their rides. Unless they're some traveling Pro, they're likley to be local and know the best routes. Also finds the hidden/private segments.

All rather faffy - I have found trails in this manner myself, though at the cost of more screen-gazing in the great outdoors than I would like. A downhill-oriented strava (which alas nobody has yet told me exists) would do well from allowing users to rate trails for quality and difficulty and colour them according to their scores on these fronts.

(A bit more like UKC logbooks but with timing right..?)

Strava is based in the US isn't it. Good luck with waiting for common sense to prevail.

The problem with that is STRAVA keeps itself safe by encourageing climbs, which are obviously safer than decents. If you created a site geared towards decents, especialy if you graded them you're opening yourself to a whole world of legal pain when a downhill run is graded as 'easy' and someone breaks their neck on the 8ft drop that was 'easy' for one person.

Common sense is not going flat out for personal bests (or racing others) on trails that are open to the public. There's pay-to-play places like PORC, Aston Hill, Innerleithen (kinda), Artur Stiniog, BPW etc for that kind of riding.

Strava is based in the US isn't it. Good luck with waiting for common sense to prevail.

It already has by allowing users to "report" a dangerous/hazardous segment.

A downhill-oriented strava (which alas nobody has yet told me exists) would do well from allowing users to rate trails for quality and difficulty and colour them according to their scores on these fronts.

If you think there is a gap in the market, go for it, get a legal team and some web programmers and have a go.

A simple "no" to my original question would have sufficed lol

sideshow - Member
A simple "no" to my original question would have sufficed lol

Don't you know where you are? This is STW.... 🙄

[url= http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/06/news/family-sues-strava-over-descending-death_224889 ]http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/06/news/family-sues-strava-over-descending-death_224889[/url]

think about it for a moment.

Downhill high speeds, accidents, someone is always at fault! Don't start arguing any different. The reality is if a third party gets hurt or worse killed, Strava will be sued and you will be sued. Use it to find trails, but use common sense when it comes to speed. If you want to race go and enter a race is the basic fact.

If you are wanting to record times on "safe" downhills ie BPW, then I guess no one would flag them as they are accepted downhills and minimal chance of horses, dogs etc.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/06/news/family-sues-strava-over-descending-death_224889

Social fitness website Strava has won a court battle over its role in the death of cyclist William Flint, who was killed while riding in Berkeley, California, in 2010.

According to court documents, San Francisco Superior Court judge Marla J. Miller granted a request by Strava, Inc. for a summary judgement in the civil suit on Monday, June 3.

“Plaintiff’s claim is precluded as a matter of law because Mr. Flint impliedly assumed the risks of bicycling,” the court wrote in its register of actions. “The defendant has shown that bicycling is an inherent risky activity. Defendant’s request for judicial notice is granted.”

All rather faffy

Well Yeah, that's the nature of the beast, all of these sites simply log GPS activity and provide tools for its analysis, primarily for training purposes, not overtly for competition or even navigation.

If they break cycling down into more than three categories ("Commuting","Cycling" (Road) and "Mountain biking") you'll be lucky TBH. They are all multi-sports services, the time and money they'd have to invest in tailoring functions to suit DHers Vs the business they'd generate (These are Commercial outfits after all) just wouldn't stack up...

Strava have already found themselves caught up in some of the liability issues that come when people absolve themselves of responsibility for their own safety because a KOM was at stake...

The trouble with going that little step further, identifying the best, and one would assume, Gnarliest DH spots, and then providing a GPS based timing and comparison service, is that sooner or later someone will spangle themselves. Then they, or their next of Kin, will come looking for "responsible parties".
Armed with the arguments that this poor rider would not have found their on way to this "Dangerous DH course" without your assistance and would not have ridden as "aggressively" if the table on your website hadn't introduced an element of competition, you'll have to have your disclaimers terms of use and counter-claims sharpened and ready before you even take the site live...

In short, Its just not worth the bother...

Just a note on the "next of kin", or injured people suing STRAVA, usualy it's not them doing it directly. It's morst likley the deceased persons life insurance or the injured persons health insurance.

I read a case recently where the defendant was being sued by the insurance company. The twist was the insurance was paid for by him to insure against any shortfall in the event of him defaulting on his mortgage whilst it was in -ve equity, so he'd handed the keys back, the insurance had paid out to the bank, and then come after him for the money!

So it's no use relying on the good will of MTBers accepting the risk. they'll just make a claim on their private health cover, or loss of earnings insurance. The insurers are the ones that'll sue. Heck, my employer even has a clause in the contract which says if I'm off sick then any pay is an indefinate loan, so if it was a car accident (for example) and I go to a no-win-no-fee lawyer, they have to submit a claim for lost earnings which I then have to pay the company.