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That big jump into the 52t is annoying, just like it was with XT 46t cassettes. I have Eagle and do use the 50t but also don't need it. Last drivetrain I got was the 10-45t Shimano because the gear steps are even, close together and 45t is plenty low enough for me.
Guess I can see the benefit of running a bigger chainring to get a higher top gear but my bikes are mostly full suspension. Bigger chainrings reduce the anti squat so make pedalling spongier.
Instead of something more useful like "here's what we've done to make this stronger, lighter, longer lasting or shift smoother/under load" it's just another Sram marketing gimmick.
I’ve been on SRAM Eagle for years, and I now have SLX 12spd on my Hardtail. I must say that Shimano have put a lot more thought into their gear ratios rather than just the spinal tap approach. The lowest 3 gears, the 51-45-39 are all closer spaced than on the SRAM, the ones you use for climbing. Then there’s a larger % wise gap from the 39 to the 33, but this is less of an issue, as it’s the gear you’re likely to go to once you’ve crested the climb (and on SRAM, I’m often double shifting at this point anyway), and from there on down both cassettes are similar.
Interesting. I've just spent an unreasonable amount of time comparing 12 speed cassette ratios (just the numbers; different/larger gaps might result in a more suited cassette for different types of riding/preferences):
1st gear on the new 10-52 is 4% slower than on the 11-50, and top gear is 10% faster. A larger 1-2 step leaves 2nd gear unchanged, and so are 3/4/5. Despite the slightly larger 11-12 step at the other end, the steps between 5 and 11 are now longer than before.
As has been said, the lower gears are closer together on the Shimano 10-51. This does result in larger steps further up the range.
Maybe they should spend a tooths worth of effort on thier production engineering.
Though not officially endorsed it seems the normal Eagle mech will indeed work with the new 52t "fine".
Not as slick as the new mech apparently which makes sense. If the rest of the cassette is the same as the 10-50 then the only difference will be that the change to 52 and back won't be as good.... I could live with that. It's not like im constantly in and out of the 50...
Oh, the new mech has a shorter cage and actually sits a bit higher up then the old mech when in the 50t.👍
When is the new Eagle due to hit the shops guys? I think initially I'd just get the cassette and keep the rest standard Eagle.
The front mech is a relic and deserves no place on a modern MTB.
Ho ho!
I'm still sticking to 2x; it means I can ride to my ride, ride my ride and ride home again.
And I know this may limit me when its time for a new bike.
For now though Shimano stuff simply outlasts everything else I've tried on the market and a 38 22 (my modification from the standard 38 24, cos it gets me up steeper hills) and a really common 11x36 on the back lets me ride to the Lakes or Cannock or even Morzine, have a laugh with my pals and go for a beer..... thats what its all about I think?
My 1x allows me to do exactly the same. In lockdown I’ve ridden both my fs and ht bikes to Ashton Court and Leigh Woods in Bristol (8 miles each way to get there / worked out as as 42km ride overall last time), and on rides out towards Bath joining up bits of singletrack.
One is 11 speed 10-42 with a 30t chainring and the other is 10-42 11 speed with a 32t chainring.
I’m considering going 12 speed just because I fancy a bigger bail out gear for the end of big day rides (like Brechfa forest black / red loop), but I don’t desperately need it.
Was thinking 10-50 Sram gx when it was down to £260 ish for the groupset vs XT 12 speed (but that was more expensive plus I’d need a new freehub £75 extra). But new Sram GX 10-52 is out with nice Carbon cranks so I’m waiting to see what sort of price that gets sold at once it’s on sale.
I’m considering going 12 speed just because I fancy a bigger bail out gear for the end of big day rides (like Brechfa forest black / red loop), but I don’t desperately need it.
Have a look at the Sunrace 10-46t cassette.
It fits an XD driver and works well with Shimano 11sp GS mechs.
All the front mech love club - that's cool, we get it, nobody is forcing this on you. Shimano still do 2x and 3x.
But please stop banging that 'you're too shit to set up a front mech' drum.
The main issue with front mech for me is the lack of NW ring viability. I've lost count of the number of times I used to throw a chain, or get chainsuck due to not having a spotless drivetrain, and since going 1x 4 years ago I've had a single chain drop. One. Because the ring was worn.
So just please stop that boring old trope, it's really dull. Horses/courses.
I’ve lost count of the number of times I used to throw a chain, or get chainsuck due to not having a spotless drivetrain, and since going 1x 4 years ago I’ve had a single chain drop.
Hmmm, well in the 3 1/2 years I ran XTR 2x11 on my Tallboy, I don't remember ever having chainsuck, or throwing chains - it just didn't happen. In fact, the only transmission problem I ever remember having was late last year at Hamsterley, when the transmission was pretty worn out, when the chain went...well, I don't really know how to describe it, but it took a fair old amount of time to untangle it all!
(now happily running XT 1x12, incidentally, so no axe to grind here about 1x setups 🙂 )
Have a look at the Sunrace 10-46t cassette.
It fits an XD driver and works well with Shimano 11sp GS mechs.
Yes but that’s less shiny
please stop banging that ‘you’re too shit to set up a front mech’ drum.
Please don't make me go through the forum linking to all the posts where folk admit either (a) they can't set up a front mech or (b) struggle coordinating two shifters. No one has time for that shit.
I can setup a front mech, I just don’t want one on my mountain bike. On stuff like Bike Park Wales even with relatively new chainrings / cassette / chain / mechs I’d still lose the chain at the most annoying times.
Also coordinating mechs is a thing - when you’re riding off-road technical stuff it’s far easier to just have one lever to go up and down. The road bike is different as I’ve got time to think about that more - but I’ve still gone di2 there and it’s much nicer than a mechanical front mech.
Additionally, a 1x style dropper lever is much nicer than the push button type and the front shifter would be in the way for that.
There is definitely a place for front mechs still. Just not on my bikes.
I think it's great to be able to have the choice, that way everyone gets what they want.
520% is not enough range for me, I'd want an 11-64 to give me equivalent range (581%) to my current setup of an 11-32 cassette and 22-32-44 chainset. I regularly use the bottom gear winching my way up into the local hills and spin out the top gear on the way back down.
520% is not enough range for me, I’d want an 11-64 to give me equivalent range (581%) to my current setup of an 11-32 cassette and 22-32-44 chainset. I regularly use the bottom gear winching my way up into the local hills and spin out the top gear on the way back down.
Sounds like you have some exceedingly steep / long hills to go up that are very smooth on the way down. I rarely spin my road bike out on completely flat tarmac that has a 50t chainring and 11t highest cog on the cassette. And if I spin it out I’m going seriously fast.
Poopscoop
SubscriberThere is definitely a place for front mechs still. Just not on my bikes.
Oh, absolutely. I think it became pretty obvious early that 3x wasn't the right choice for the default on most bikes any more, except for cargo and touring and the like. But there's still a good argument for 2x, both it and 1x bring something to the table.
All mine are 1x and it works best for me but 2x was decent too, especially with a clutch.
(I was a pretty early adopter of 2x and I remember all the same arguments that you now hear about 1x being trotted out... and yes some of them I know and some of them are now riding on 2x and saying the exact same things about 1x as they did about 2. But equally, I was pretty early on 1x too and some of the most enthusiastic adopters of that, are back on 2x.)
Some of the minor changes are welcome, but it’s interesting that we’ve essentially reached a hiatus with ever increasing range… Which is solving a problem that doesn’t really exist.
I think Box were on onto something with the wide range, fewer gears approach. It’s interesting that Shimano have gone that way with their M4100 and M5100 Deore.
The thing it find most is that I don’t really need the 10/11/13 gears. Basically hardly ever used, which is probably an argument for running a 30t chainring and 11 to 45…
I think the consumer might head back towards a more rhythm step model. That being said, less durable, designed obsolescence components are where the profit is at.
When is the new Eagle due to hit the shops guys? I think initially I’d just get the cassette and keep the rest standard Eagle.
Looks like it will hit the UK shops in Mid july. I could sell you a cassette now but it would be expensive, but I would chuck in the rest of a bike for the price 🙂
@benpinnick I’ve already had an Aeris and now an Aether from you so surely you could throw me in a new gx groupset on the cheap 😝🤷♂️
Not a SRAM user so happy to let them play the oneupmanship game, I don't need to buy it.
I think Box were on onto something with the wide range, fewer gears approach. It’s interesting that Shimano have gone that way with their M4100 and M5100 Deore.
I've noticed this with switching between two of my bikes during lockdown. the hardtail has 11-42T Deore 10 speed where the full sus has 11-42 XT 11 speed, both with 32 T chainrings and 650B wheels. While the top and bottom gears are the same I've noticed I ride differently due to the differences up and down the block in the middle. Takes a few minutes to mentally adjust when switching between the two but I am finding myself preferring the gaps on the Deore cassette for some reason! Normally I'm all about even gaps across the block and prefer Shimano's thinking on it to SRAM's but I'll wait until I've done a few bog mountain rides once lockdown is over before making a final decision. The tester will be when I get the Rocket back out as it's got XT 11 speed but with a SunRace 11-46 cassette as I didn't like the big jump on the Shimano one. The SunRace has a weird jump 2/3rds the way down the block, see if I notice it after riding the Deore one so much.
That 10t jump is a monster, but it might suit some people. I'd see it more like having an 10-42t 11 speed, with a 52t bailout sprocket stuck on, that doesn't actually see too much use. However If you frequently climb by progressing through the bottom 3 or 4 gears in sequence, and thus want more consistent steps then shimano might be a better option, 1 tooth difference for the overall range isn't actually that much of a difference (IMO).
for me i wonder why they eeked out that high gear side to 9t or 10t when it’s barely used by most.
This was my thought too, I think what will probably happen, because SRAM are clearly into spinal tap marketing, is that the 9t will be stuck on the opposite end to a 52t sprocket eventually so they can claim the biggest overall range, once more when they need a new marketing tool.
I do hope shimano don't engage with SRAM and just play the "moar teeth/ratios is betterer" game, and instead carry on producing cassettes with useful ratios and sensible steps, even if for no other Reason than making sure there's some diversity of choice between the two brands...
I do hope shimano don’t engage with SRAM and just play the “moar teeth/ratios is betterer” game, and instead carry on producing cassettes with useful ratios and sensible steps,
You mean like their 11-46 11 speed cassette with a big jump - and noting it was Shimano that made a cassette 1 tooth bigger than Eagle to start with?
You mean like their 11-46 11 speed cassette with a big jump – and noting it was Shimano that made a cassette 1 tooth bigger than Eagle to start with?
Nevermind that they're doing an 11-46 10 speed obviously with even bigger steps (which I'm tempted by personally) as part of the Deore group, very obviously pitched to compete with SX/NX on value for money price points builds for OEMs (and maybe the likes of sunrace now?) But then beggars can't be choosers and all that, as pointed out there are a few people still looking to stretch the range of 8/9/10 speed these days...
I'm not saying shimano are above the big cassette marketing BS but both companies are offering very slightly different flagship products.
Again in the middle ground shimano are now offering viable 10 and 11 speed wide range 1x options, while SRAM seem to want everyone to opt into 12 speed across their MTB groups from SX up, probably so they don't "back slide" towards fewer cogs, even though at cheaper price points there seem to be reliability issues (anecdotally)...
Both companies have subtly different 1x offerings now, you choose whatever suits your riding/maintainence habits/budget. That's actually a good thing IMO.
Come to the Pennines, there are some climbs/times that you’d probably be able to usefully use a 52t cassette.
... and or some descents you could use the 10T/36 ... for about 10 secs.
The thing is do you really want to spend the extra £ or carry the extra weight for a few minutes out of a 4 hour ride? (or in reality the extra drag from the tyre that still grips)
I sometimes have a bit of fun with Jnr playing "how far up can you get" and its a giggle for a while but really not worth buying a new hub, cassette and sticking a tyre on just to win.
Looking forward to 2 x 7 with short mechs that don't get smashed off rocks.
Tomorrow I shall mainly be riding 3x10 on 26s.
I may upgrade sometime but I like the 42x11 gear.
13thfloormonk
I had to check it wasn’t April Fools, is this REALLY better than just running a front mech?
No.
Are SRAM and Shimano still making cassettes with <50 teeth? If so I don’t see what the fuss is. If you don’t want a big ol’ cassette on your bike then use a smaller one.
Yeah, I really don’t get why some folk seem to take it really personally if some random guy off the Internet chooses not to use the same gear setup as them.
It’s horses for courses.
My rigid mtb/bikepacking/touring bike uses 2x10, 32t ring, on a 11-42 cassette.
Works flawlessly, shifts silently etc, but gives me a top speed of around 20mph.
(Plenty on that bike)
My ebike uses the same cassette, pulled by (the equivalent to) a 37.5t* ring, gives me a top speed close to 30mph, works flawlessly, yada yada yada.
My cx bike useS 2x10, 34/50 up front, 11-32 cassette, that can be spun to C35mph, works flawl . . . You get the idea.
The crucial point, is using gears that are appropriate for the intended usage.
1x does work for most people, just not everyone.
The 2x systems i use on some of my bikes work for my needs, but will be sub optimal for other users.
*it’s a 15T, but gets turned at 2.5 times the crank speed, so equivalent to 37.5T
This came out to retail pretty quick from the initial announcement. Mantel had stock over the weekend of GX and X01 so I ordered a combination of both. Epicly fast delivery as usual.
In hand, the new lunar grey colouring is quite a step up in styling.
It has antagonised my riding buddies profusely tonight because it's a) new, b) not out in the UK and c) out ranges their recently upgraded XTR groups. I have now accended to the Ibex status of climbing impossible gradients.
The new b screw adjuster tool is definitely better than the previous itteration.
It rides and shifts as well as the last gen 500% range XX1/X01.
Must resist!
Not ordered yet but will have a browse and prob do so over the weekend.
Torn with this -
I’ve had Sram drivetrains for ages on my mtb’s and they just work well with minimal maintenance. I also like the thumb shifter levers.
Every shimano lever I have used has a weird thumb shift position for shifting to higher gears.
I had a look at mantel and the gx group would work out slightly cheaper for me than the XT one I’ve been looking at as I don’t need a new freehub and I could keep my current crank / chainring. But the XT cassette has a better last jump to the biggest 51t cog. Hmmmmn. Wish shimano had adopted the Xd driver in this case.
The only thing Mantel don’t seem to have is the new carbon GX crank - I’m curious to see how much that is going to cost as I fancy one of those.
You can order the Truvativ Descendant carbon dub crank for c£210 shipped from R2-Bike. They weigh 550g and look like the new GX Carbon Crank (same company anyway). Their Sam Hill version weighs the same as X01.
There are boost and non boost variants. I ordered a boost one out of curiosity at the weekend and it arrived today. Bang on weight and the profile of the arms looks like the new GX Carbon from the pics.