[Closed] SRAM one upping Shimano... 10-52t

Am I the only one who thought that while Shimano looked a bit silly going to 51 to beat SRAM, SRAM look even sillier for coming back with 'just one more tooth'..?

Is this going to be the start of some kind of ridiculous gear war where we end up with massive cassette's and 40t chainrings under the guise of 'improved drivetrain efficiency'..?? God I hope not.

Mine goes up to 11

with massive cassette’s and 40t chainrings

New Boost Minus frames to accommodate mega chainrings.

Nah, development and competition is a good thing. If that's bigger range cassette, so be it.

Still waiting for an 200mm reverb AXS though, SRAM.

And GX Eagle AXS would be nice, too. They're probably saving that for when Shimano release their electronic XT/XTR groupsets.

What if this is the preamble to introducing a new wheelsize.!! 'Sorry but the mech for our new 10-62 cassette would drag on the ground with 29" wheels so we'd like to introduce our "new" 36" wheel standard, with 20mm thru-axle for increased rigidity and 126mm spacing for heel clearance..!'  AAArrrghhhhh..!

Rotor goes up to 13...

H1ghland3r
Member

Am I the only one who thought that while Shimano looked a bit silly going to 51 to beat SRAM, SRAM look even sillier for coming back with ‘just one more tooth’..?

Is this going to be the start of some kind of ridiculous gear war

Yes it's a bit silly but not how you see it I think. SRAM have led all the way on this, from narrow/wides to larger cassettes (twice) to 10T. 1x has been an absolute gamechanger. Shimano have missed every boat but did pull a bit of a blinder with the 51T "this goes one bigger" so they could grab back some of the market without doing any of the work. The difference between 50, 51 and 52T is very small, but it's still "one more" so is being frantically sold that way. Can't fault SRAM for playing the same game.

Besides, we've been in a ridiculous gear war since at least the 90s 😉

Rear mechs are just getting closer to the ground and weaker, it's time to stop, who the hell needs 52t, thats one helluva steep climb.
At this rate tyres will find their limit before the cranks get too hard to spin.
That copper version is so nice though.

I wonder if the new Mechs will be more robust than the old ones?

I say this as a GX owner with a brand new XT M8100 mech on my desk...

Erm... All they're doing is replacing the 50T with a 52T... Making what is already a fairly sizeable gap at the low end of the cassette, even bigger! 🤦🏻

I've been on SRAM Eagle for years, and I now have SLX 12spd on my Hardtail. I must say that Shimano have put a lot more thought into their gear ratios rather than just the spinal tap approach. The lowest 3 gears, the 51-45-39 are all closer spaced than on the SRAM, the ones you use for climbing. Then there's a larger % wise gap from the 39 to the 33, but this is less of an issue, as it's the gear you're likely to go to once you've crested the climb (and on SRAM, I'm often double shifting at this point anyway), and from there on down both cassettes are similar.

Introducing a 10T gap at the bottom of the range on the SRAM... No thanks!

Erm… All they’re doing is replacing the 50T with a 52T… Making what is already a fairly sizeable gap at the low end of the cassette, even bigger! 🤦🏻

It certainly doesn't seem like there has been much effort put in, even if it was all marketing, Shimano at least tried to explain their 51T as something other than 'just a bit bigger than that other lot'.  I seem to remember Shimano getting slated for doing the same thing with their 11-46 cassette which had a huge jump on it that everyone thought was heinous and went and bought SunRace instead.

What's the point?

I've got a 32t chainring and 10-50 GX. Actually balancing on the bike in 32-50 is a challenge. Why did it need to go lower? It's like suspension "you don't actually need to use all of it every ride", well no, but having had the old drivechain obsoleted I feel aggrieved having to carry a 100g 50t sprocket up every hill for the next 5 years.

TBH I originally intended to go micro spline and use Shimano's 10-45 cassette, but it doesn't actually weigh less (as far as the quoted weights go) so seems fairly pointless apart from smaller jumps. Now can't decide what freehub to get, given the better availability of XD hubs I could save the price difference of GX Vs XT anyway by not getting Hope or DT and that's 2x cassettes, say 18months each if I singlespeed the worst of the winter that takes me to 2025 by which point standards will be different anyway!

I had to check it wasn't April Fools, is this REALLY better than just running a front mech?

Wishful thinking time as it's ostensibly a completely revised group set not just a big sprocket:

The alloy GX chainset will disappear as SRAM will use it's OEM pricing to undercut SLX/XT with the GX carbon chainset.

The revised rear mechs will be more durable.

Perhaps if the first 11 ratios haven't changed, they have at least shed some weight from them?

13thfloormonk

I had to check it wasn’t April Fools, is this REALLY better than just running a front mech?

Yes, it is. !00%. For multiple different reasons.

Yes but....that copper would go smashing with my copper Nukeproof Horizons. I’m such a punter 😂.

I had to check it wasn’t April Fools, is this REALLY better than just running a front mech?

Or a smaller chainring. I had a 10-50 GX cassette on my old bike and only used the 50T a couple of times, the new bike has 12spd XT and I have never used the 51 at all, and that's with moving from 27.5" to 29" wheels as well.

The alloy GX chainset will disappear as SRAM will use it’s OEM pricing to undercut SLX/XT with the GX carbon chainset.

This is cool, but I wonder if they've found something better than window putty to use for making the bottom brackets to go with them...?

The revised rear mechs will be more durable.

The macaroni cheese that my kids made for my lunch is more durable than a SRAM rear mech, but I do hope this is one area that they've finally got sorted now. As always, Shimano have been very slow to get to the table, but now they are there, their kit is /really/ good, especially in the mid-range...

The revised rear mechs will be more durable.

I dont think they could make them any less durable, for sure!

This is cool, but I wonder if they’ve found something better than window putty to use for making the bottom brackets to go with them…?

To be fair on them, I've not had a bad GXP since about 2014. That one lasted about 4 rides before dying and being replaced with a shimano crankset. Since then they've all died for other reasons, the last one did 100 miles on my SS (plus whatever it did before that) before dying when hopping over a water bar and landing with the water bar jammed between crank and BB!

So far DUB's been fine, but is only a couple of hundred dry miles old.

The alloy GX chainset will disappear as SRAM will use it’s OEM pricing to undercut SLX/XT with the GX carbon chainset.

The chainset isn't really new, its just the first time its had GX written on it and so I dont think it would make more or less of a dent than before.

I had to check it wasn’t April Fools, is this REALLY better than just running a front mech?

The front mech is a relic and deserves no place on a modern MTB.

And are the new mechs ACTUALLY lower? The 52t is compatible with the AXS mechs which are 10mm higher and have more chain wrap, vs the 'old' non electronic mechs.

who the hell needs 52t, thats one helluva steep climb.

Come to the Pennines, there are some climbs/times that you'd probably be able to usefully use a 52t cassette.

I live in Kent and regularly use the 50t on my bike (32t front, 29er), especially at the end of a ride or when you're not bothered about how fast you get to the top, and/or your legs are dead.

Yeah the gap is 2t bigger, but the eagle gear was always a bail out gear, this one is just a bit more!

Come on, admit it, who's been in thier 50t and still tried to shift one lower? I have, I know.

And, the 10-50t isn't going anywhere, it's not a replacement, it's a 2nd option. Don't want/need the 52t? Buy the 50t version.

I can't help but wonder if 1x isn't actually working for many people. That size ring could be sorted by a smaller front ring (but then loses top end speed). Top end speed requires a larger front ring, which makes climbing harder as the gears aren't low enough.

I'm running Eagle but I'm finding I'm not using first as often as I feared - admittedly last 3 months have been relatively flat.

However, I'm unsure people really need that, so is it pandering to those who can't in the hope that they will?

I really like 1x but have also no problems with 2x or 3x as I know I'll find a gear that I can turn (unless it gets steep and my lungs stop working). Not a brag as I'm definitely slow and steady, I just don't get the need for such a massive cassette...

I can’t help but wonder if 1x isn’t actually working for many people.

I’ve been running 1x for years, 1x9 with a 30t front (terrible) 1x10 and 1x11 with 1x11 32/42 it wasn’t quite there for me, I’d end up pushing a lot (I’m old and fat) 32/46 was better, but 32/50 was the first set up that let me climb the same stuff I could with 2x and not losing too much top end, as I recall if you’re spinning out in top you’re really shifting.

Looks like I'm in the minority here but I certainly use the 50t. For me it's a definite bail out gear (or when out of principle I'd like to at least try to ride a steep incline rather than give in and walk) so the gap doesn't bother me. Sure it won't on the 52 either.

Not read the article yet, will the 52 work with the current Eagle mechs?

Edit: I see a new mech is needed but I wonder if the standard Eagle shifter still works?

I don’t like this. Agree with most comments above.

Yes, some people need lower gears then others. But then, who needs high speed gears on their mtb? Most of the time, on real mtb trails, your descending speed is limited by skill in cornering and braking, not by you spinning out.

If you want lower gears, just put a smaller chainring on!
Improves ground clearance too.

In the early days of the EWS(11 speed, 10-42), I remember Jerome Clementz saying he didn’t put more than a 34t chainring on the front, often 32t because the speeds he could pedal a 36t up to were to dangerous, and he’d have to brake to much for the technical sections.
That is coming from someone with best in the world handling skills, and in a racing situation. Most of us have neither.

I agree that in some situations, 420% range was a bit limiting for some people. But for mtb use, 460%, let along 500%, is already more range than needed.

And then of course, there is the whole why do we need 12 gears question. In mtb, you either go up or down. Al we need is a few moderate steps at the easy end, then a bunch of big jumps up to the top speed. 10 cogs is plenty for that.

Holy dinner plates and sprocket tooth jumps, Batman!

If they get much bigger, the rear wheel will become a semi-aero disc rear. 😆

In mtb, you either go up or down

10's of trail centres across the UK would disagree with you there.

Al we need is a few moderate steps at the easy end, then a bunch of big jumps up to the top speed.

So, you spend no time in the middle of the cassette? For me, that's my most used gears. Trails which are downhill but not steep enough to not need a few pedal strokes when coming out of a corner, for instance.

Some people also ride their MTB's on the road, to get to trails... Shhh!!! 90rpm on a 32x10, 29ers wheel is 25mph - on a nice smooth tarmac, slight downhill or tailwind, that's not that hard to sit at.

Of course, you can always ignore the 10-52t cassette and just buy the 10-50t, which isn't going away. 🙂

I use the top and bottom of a Shimano 10-51 pretty much every ride. Admittedly with a 34t chainring.

On the subject of mechs hanging lower, I suspect it's not true. On paper yes but only in the lowest gears, where it tends to be less likely to take a hit (and at that point, it's as far inbound as it can). The actual gear you're in has such a big effect on this as to make direct comparison not really work I think.

thisisnotaspoon
Subscriber

What’s the point?

I’ve got a 32t chainring and 10-50 GX. Actually balancing on the bike in 32-50 is a challenge. Why did it need to go lower?

It hasn't, it's gone wider range- sure, if you don't change the front then it's lower but it gives you the potential to go a little higher at the front for better top speeding.

If it works it works, it's 2t more than the old one, i have the 10-50 and use pretty much all the back end including the 50t more than i'm down in the 10t terrain, i can't think of a time, bar going down steep roads where i would risk being in such a high gear, for me i wonder why they eeked out that high gear side to 9t or 10t when it's barely used by most.

As for the 50t, it's a great push up path gear, or around my area, the quick slog to the top, but on techy stuff it isn't really that much more use, if i'm in it and doing a tech climb the front wheel is so light i know i'm walking pretty soon, that's on anything with a low gear over 44t, let alone 52t!

Size isn’t everything, it’s how you use it.

My experience is,

Sram is overpriced tat.

Shimano is under appreciated quality

“ Trails which are downhill but not steep enough to not need a few pedal strokes when coming out of a corner, for instance“
Indeed, common situation. But in that situation, you don’t need tiny jumps form gear to gear like a roadie sitting in a pack at the limit of their sustainable power.

“ Some people also ride their MTB’s on the road, to get to trails… Shhh!!! 90rpm on a 32×10, 29ers wheel is 25mph – on a nice smooth tarmac, slight downhill or tailwind, that’s not that hard to sit at”

I disagree , the vast majority of people, can not sustain 25mph on anything resembling a flat road on their mtb, barring a gale force tailwind. But anyway, it doesn’t really matter if many people can or or only a few, because the people who CAN pedal their mtb at 25mph on a nearly flat road, can also pedal a 32x46 up any climb.

“ I use the top and bottom of a Shimano 10-51 pretty much every ride. Admittedly with a 34t chainring.“
Yes, once you have it, you often end up using it. But if you had a smaller cassette, and a 32t or 30t chainring, how often would you end up really struggling because of the lower top end?

It hasn’t, it’s gone wider range- sure, if you don’t change the front then it’s lower but it gives you the potential to go a little higher at the front for better top speeding.

This is 100% the point.

Lots of folk claim they spin out on descents on a 1x system, this is for them, not the spinners.

Bit of a damp squib innit.

I'm going back to 11sp anyway, recently got a 460% range cassette (10-46t) and that is plenty enough for me, it was a revelation riding on some big hills recently actually.

Bit of a damp squib innit.

I’m going back to 11sp anyway, recently got a 460% range cassette (10-46t) and that is plenty enough for me, it was a revelation riding on some big hills recently actually.

Quite. Rather than all this expensive narrow-wide, huge rear mech, dinner plate sized sprocket nonsense, you could just use 2 chainrings.

Still, then they wouldn't have any "new" products for excitable fanboys and girls to shoot their load over; and bikeradar, pinkbike et al wouldn't be able to call us luddites for not getting on board yet.

Still, then they wouldn’t have any “new” products for excitable fanboys and girls to shoot their load over; and bikeradar, pinkbike et al wouldn’t be able to call us luddites for not getting on board yet.

Look, you just have to accept the fact that setting up a front mech is beyond many folks capabilities. And then there are those for whom the ability to co-coordinate two thumbs seems to have been genetically un-programmed.

The STW front mech appreciation society returns

I love a front mech almost as much as I love Compo, Cleggy and Foggy 🙂

The STW front mech appreciation society returns

I was about to mention chain retention, better designed frames, no chain suck, and better dropper lever placement as reasons why the front mech is dead and something from the 90's.

But that says it better.

I use the full range of a 10-51 too with a 36t chainring. Had 11-42 before that. Wasn't enough. This is for a hardtail that gets used for commuting as well (50:50 on/off road), a mix of everything, like MTBs used to get used for. Yes, i tried a gravel bike, awful things.