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He's winding us up. They clearly cut the course short.
They clearly cut the course short.
Clearly, but they ain't fessing up.
Well I think it's kinda interesting that, whatever they are, Sportives are still growing at a massive rate. (In the way that audaxes & races aren't) So they must be providing something that a lot of people want to do.
(In the way that audaxes & races aren't)
That's very very far from the truth. It might seem like sportives are surging ahead, but that's purely because they're pretty new. And they seem high profile to the cycling fraternity due to pretty intense advertising. After all they are highly profitable for the organisers. Just look at the event I took part in on Sunday, over £3000 worth of pre paid entrants didn't turn up.
As for racing. My local cross league grows in participants and events every year.
And road racing, I can now race road up to four times a week fairly locally if I want.
And as for Audax, well there might not be many new events but numbers are on the up. Then again how many 200/300/400/600/1000km events do you want to ride a month?
Sportives are putting bums in saddles which is bloody excelent, even if it's at a pretty high price for the riders. And that's where it stops.
Turn up at a cross race for example, and you'll find the host club has laid on events for everyone, toddlers to mums and dads to continental pros all for a couple of quid. You could argue that in fact club cycling is far more accessible than sportives.
Sportives have a place in cycling, my club actively promotes them and encourages our riders to take part in them, but we can't see them as races. AFAIC the individual timing aspect of them is already taken care of by TTs. The mass competition aspect is covered by road racing. And much else of it is already covered by club runs and reliability trials.
Out of interest: How many people attend the local cross league events?
If someone can do 100 miles in 4 hours solo then hats off to them (was it hilly/flat?) I did 76miles in 4 hours this aft and I'm goosed!
26 mph solo for 100 miles?well yeh. i would expect you to have a place in a peleton somewhere for that.
**** me mate. thats TT pace, but sustained. for 4 hrs.
Google 100mile time trials, 12hour time trials and 24hour time trials. IIRC the British record for a 24hour is averaging over 25mph.
Well I think it's kinda interesting that, whatever they are, Sportives are still growing at a massive rate. (In the way that audaxes & races aren't) So they must be providing something that a lot of people want to do.
In the north east the Virgin money cyclone attracts thousands of riders. What it offers is something for dedicated riders to challenge themselves with but also newer riders.
HAving said that we also have road races Tuesday and Thursday, Timetrials on Wednesday and races Saturday and Sunday. All are normally well attended with 50+ riders regardless of weather. There are two cross leagues running through the winter too. BC and TLI (NECX and NECCL).
Cycling generally is growing.
It's all good though. Sportives offer something racing doesn't and vica versa. I like the fact sportives are long and challenging because local races are more crit style. This in itself is nice as well though as it offers variety. I still say sportives aren't proper racing but they are a perfectly valid and worthy form of cyclesport, just a different branch of it. Sportive, Timetrial, Crit, Road Race, Audax etc.
Wors, are you Newcastle ish ? We should have forum road ride...
Wors, are you Newcastle ish ? We should have forum road ride...
No mate sorry, Bolton.
i just dont get it? my mate just paid £33 to do a sportive ... £33 to go for a ride??? he could have rode with me for Free FFS!!! Lmao
IIRC the British record for a 24hour is averaging over 25mph.
Er, no. For 12 hours maybe, but the record for 24 is more like 22mph.
I've done 100 miles in 4hrs 21mins - but that was in full on TT mode (and the winner did sub 3:50 IIRC - a certain chap called Kevin Dawson).
Out of interest: How many people attend the local cross league events?
Main race 70 - 120 or more. Then there's the novices race beforehand, the Juniors race before that and all the youth races
Another point, and it perhaps explains the 'I don't get sportives' attitude.
Myself and most club riders all have their Sunday ride, and I suppose the average is between 50 and 100 miles. If like us there are between 10 and 20 regular riders all with different rides to lead, the perhaps you can see why it would be strange to pay to ride a route that is only unique because of it's little direction markers?
Then of course those that have been doing reliability trials will wonder why they only cost a few quid. Well of course we know why, but do you really need (not so) freebies?
Our club reliability trial/sportive.
Entry £5
Free bike checks by a mobile mechanic
Mechanic on course.
Free energy gels
Photographer.
Two waymarked routes
Ample parking
Showers
Free use of country club gym, swimming pool and other facilities.
Access to restaurant.
Maps on site in advance and GPS downloads.
After insurance there's a few quid left to go in the kitty
When i were a lad a race was a 100 miles and a training ride was 110 miles fixed wheel!........rain or shine! They were also very disciplined rides, unlike some of the behaviour one sees from time to time on sportives.
Myself and most club riders all have their Sunday ride, and I suppose the average is between 50 and 100 miles.
I don't know about yours, but at my local clubs, the club runs go at a far slower pace than I'd normally ride a sportive. Pushing hard on the climbs is also positively discouraged. That and they all go over the local roads I know and have already ridden hundreds of times.
Here's a thought..
If it's on closed roads, is fully marshalled, faster riders are seeded to the front, the organisers publish finish times "in order" and they even have a podium ceremony, is it a race or a sportive?
Out of interest: How many people attend the local cross league events?
Race I organised at Christmas had 300+ in total. 180 in the main race, 50 youths and 90 over the two under-12 categories.
If someone can do 100 miles in 4 hours solo then hats off to them (was it hilly/flat?) I did 76miles in 4 hours this aft and I'm goosed!
On a pure road bike they'd have to be exceptional, TT bike not so (I can do a 100TT in under 4hrs and I'm nowhere near exceptional...) but that's with the full kit on a flat course.
If it's on closed roads, is fully marshalled, faster riders are seeded to the front, the organisers publish finish times "in order" and they even have a podium ceremony, is it a race or a sportive?
You like the role of Devil's Advocate don't you? 😉
Presume you're talking about Etape Caledonia? They have a specific insurance policy in place and that event is a very grey area of not quite a race and not quite a sportive.
There's a few other events that have taken to having timed hill climb sections - I did a Sportive last month that had one without me even realising. I was 7th fastest up the hill out of 1200 riders, if I'd have known I was being timed I'd have actually put some effort in! Not that you won anything for it as to do that would turn it into a race and invalidate the insurance...
Depends if the organiser [i]specifically states it is NOT a race[/i] then no it isn't. Quite a few of you seam to not like the actual [i]racing[/i] bit of racing.
If you want to go for a nice long ride that is organised you could do an audaux for £2.00, or join a club and do a club ride every week for about a tenner a year, or buy a GPS and get a group of mates to do a ride where ever. If you want to go flat out for a set distance time trials are £2.50 (also not specifically a race IMO as it is a time-trial but you get ranked and everyone has the intent of completing the course in the fastest time so it is a [i]true[/i] comparison)
However, the best bit about road racing is that it [u]isn't[/u] about who can cover the distance fastest, I've been in track races that probably have had an average speed slower than a club ride as we all screech to a halt at every corner waiting to see who is brave enough to go solo. You need to be on your game to win a road race tactically and physically and that makes it so interesting.
And yes sometimes racing is a little disorganised and hectic, the bunch doesn't sit at a nice constant pace like it would in a sportive where you are all trying to work together to get to the finish quickly. But in a race (mostly crit races) I'm not working for you to get the finish quickly, I want you out the back of the bunch. So as soon as we hit a quiet moment, because no one really wants to take a long turn, I'll be attacking. When you have a group of guys constantly attacking, breaks being caught, counter attacks the pace varying from 15ish to well over 30 and suddenly it's the last corner your elbow to elbow sprinting for all your worth. Then you have a race and IMO about the best £10.00 of entertainment you'll ever get.
Iain
🙂 I guess that I just hate this very black and white definition of "racing" that has been proposed on this and similar threads. It would also help me answer the accusation that I've never raced and therefore can't really comment. Last time I did it, the fast guys finished in around 3:30. That seems like a pretty good pace for a "not-exactly-flat" course.
Of course, lots of folk were just in it for a laugh, so I guess it could never actually be called a race.....
Of course, lots of folk were just in it for a laugh, so I guess it could never actually be called a race.....
That's what I've been trying to say for the last 5 pages!
I don't mind people riding fast or trying to get a best time so long as it's done safely. What I do object to is people claiming to have "won" or people riding like dickheads to get inside a Gold Standard time. Or people who cut the course then claim times of 3.5hrs for 100 miles.
The majority of Sportives I've done have been with friends - I know I could have done them much quicker if I'd have had a group of similar ability to work with or had actually made some sort of effort but for me a Sportive is the road riding equivalent of going to a trail centre - take your brain out riding with no need to map read, find a cafe or accidently end up on some god-awful A road. Basically a social ride with none of the hassle of planning.
And more people on bikes is (mostly) A Good Thing.
I don't know about yours, but at my local clubs, the club runs go at a far slower pace than I'd normally ride a sportive. Pushing hard on the climbs is also positively discouraged. That and they all go over the local roads I know and have already ridden hundreds of times.
Yeah, well it varies of course. Time of year, have we just raced, did we train hard the day before, is it a short one or a long one?
We do try to find new routes all the time.
Something I've been trying to get in place (with zero luck so far) are inter club rides - show me yours and I'll show you mine.
On a whole though we ride sportives slower. With a full racing calender it's hard to put in an effort for such events. For example on Sunday, before the sportive I just had a cuppa and a few digestives before for breakfast, thinking the lack of effort wouldn't require any nutrition. I did take a water bottle and £1.50 just in case though.
Speed of the club rides depends on the club entirely, our rides are at the pace of the slowest rider who turns up, which is nice as they speed up over the year and you can really see peoples progression. Another club I was in had a Wednesday night ride that required a sit down at the end to stop everything spinning.
Iain
I'm doing another sportive this Sunday as well. Three in one week, quite a few for someone that 'doesn't get them' 90 miler this time.
Gatecrashing this one, no entries on the day left, but how many wont show?
What are folks views on this practice? Mine is obviously okay if you don't use any facilities laid on i.e the actual event HQ, food stops, freebies.
druid why not enter a race then you'll be able to comment?
I'm not allowed to comment until I've taken part in a race?
Is that like not commenting on a movie until you've been an actor/director/first grip?
Jeez...
No, your comments on whether sportives are races or not would be a whole lot more relevant if you'd ridden in a race.
I think part of the problem in this discussion is the loosely applied term "race".
Sportives are obviously treated as a form of "race" by some of the participants. They are clearly not "road races", however, because they do not follow the internationally recognised format for "road races" and do not adhere to the rules of competition set out by any of the organisations that administer road racing.
For similar reasons, sportives are not "time trials" because they do not follow the format and rules of competition for time trials (riders competing individually with no drafting, etc).
In a road race, everyone starts together, and the first person over the line wins. Within that apparently simple format, there is a whole world of physical and mental challenge to explore, which is what makes "road racing" so interesting, difficult and very different from sportives. Some riders will want to try and keep the race together for a sprint finish, while others want to break things up to reduce the odds or go for a solo win. The pace will vary constantly, as attacks are made and breaks form or are chased down. The repeated aerobic/anaerobic cycles of a road race are extremely demanding, and typically much harder than riding a "fast" but steady sportive. Road racing is the true test of a rider because you need to use both your athletic ability and your head, and you have to go head to head against other competitors who are trying to out-ride you and outwit you.
Comparing road racing and sportives is like comparing apples and oranges. They both have their place, but deliver very different challenges.