Only looking for a leader if Bertie's been tucking in to the beef again.
It does make you wonder why Nibali, a self proclaimed flag bearer for clean cycling, signed for a team with such dubious management and history.
I seem to remember some merkin proclaiming the same.
Moar news! This is getting big!
Is that actually new though? I guess maybe confirmation of it but I thought all those names were already out there as involved with Ferrari. TBH there's so much crap to rake through I might be getting mixed up.
The thing that stood out for me was the fact they've got more names they haven't released yet.
That's kind of my point - it's just official confirmation of what we already knew.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/astana-accused-of-systematic-doping
And, in the last few minutes...
http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/12/news/cookson-defends-ucis-response-to-doping-amid-brewing-astana-storm_355599
every time this appears again, I assume Nibbles has been caught out
that's sad (for me & for cycling - unless I'm the only one 🙁 )
Apparently the UCI decision will be revealed at 5pm GMT today
Unfortunately the UCI have to follow procedure or else CAS will overturn it, and there was no rule that X positives means the team gets demoted
But it's hard to see how they can go on without major changes to the team - surely Vino has to go
Reckon you're right. UCI will have to follow procedure based on the CAS katusha case or they'd be in all sorts of trouble legally for losses, etc. I did wonder if they'd decline the license knowing what's in the report, on the basis that once the full gos comes out, it'll be a moot point but I think that the liability side would prevent that.
Let's be honest, cheating was clearly rife and BAU at astana. In the balance of probabilities Nibbles was at it too. The onus now lies with nibbles to prove he was clean.
The onus now lies with nibbles to prove he was clean.
You can't prove a negative. The suspicion may be there, but the onus is on regulators to prove it via their testing programmes.
I think they will be very cautious, and perhaps grant a licence pending further investigation and perhaps subject to conditions. They have to digest and implement (legally) the findings from a 550 page report, which they only received at the weekend. I think there might be a further ruling once that investigation has been fully accounted for in their findings.
Guess we'll find out shortly anyway! Personally I think it stinks, and Vino is a pretty unpleasant character. Plenty more riders implicated and to be implicated, and clean or not, it's not good for Nibali.
martinhutch - Member
The onus now lies with nibbles to prove he was clean.
You can't prove a negative. The suspicion may be there, but the onus is on regulators to prove it via their testing programmes.
Look you; don't be coming over here, using you so called "logic" to try and stop a witch hunt! Right! 🙂
[url= http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-awards-astana-worldtour-licence ]Move along, nothing to see here. Doping? No, no, no. Don't be silly. Of course the team run by a convicted doper, with a litany of dopers in their history and with actual dopers in the team aren't doping. Not even slightly. Clean bill of health, carry on as if nothing has happened. [/url]
UCI have chickened out here, I feel.
Surprised they didn't at least issue it with conditions attached.
Are the Ferrari rumours confirmed?
Does it really matter if they're confirmed or not? Five positive tests in the same team (Yeah, yeah, try and say that the feeder team is separate, but we all know it's the same corrupt Kazakh outfit really) in recent months.
Ferrari is a sideshow here.
what the Cpt says but with more swearing and crap spelling.
Its embarrassing to like the sport when they let them compete and it feels so like LA and just looking away as it is to big[ expensive] to deal with/contemplate but he will remain forever tainted and likely a cheat in my view. The UCI, once more, does not look that clean either tbh.
Does it really matter if they're confirmed or not?
Just trying to understand the UCI decision, I guess it can't rule on unconfirmed rumours which kind of omits the Ferrari link?
The five positives and well documented history should have been enough to at least issue with conditions (if possible).
Disappointing.
Are the comments still disabled on CyclingNews?? This must be killing the frothers over there!
It's not the UCI, they've gone with the decision of the independent review committee which acted more or less as these new allegations were coming out.
If the UCI had gone against the decision of the review board, they'd just have taken it to CAS who would have overturned it in favour of Astana. It's shit but hopefully they'll be under massive scrutiny and maybe Astana will trip themselves up during the year.
So, Astana carry on doping, but Europcar have no license.
AFAIK, the latter haven't got a massive history of doping, aren't run by a doper and haven't had five recent positives among their riders. They must have done something terrible.....
[url= http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/2015-uci-worldtour-decisions-the-licence-commission/# ]UCI Link[/url]
Ah, I see. Europcar don't have money, so can't ride. Astana have a lot of very corrupt money so can not only ride, but dope away happily! Party on, dudes!
FFS.
Decent piece on [url= http://inrng.com/2014/12/astana-uci-licence/ ]Inrng[/url] too, sums it up quite nicely for me.
Yep, that Inrng blog is spot on.
What's the news here? Which sport are we talking about?
What's the news here? Which sport are we talking about?
Poor effort by your standards.
What's the news here? Which sport are we talking about?
Accidentally stumbled into the [u][b]bike[/b][/u] forum 🙂
So confused. Did his teammates dope while riding the tour(s) he won? If they did then it taints his victories I reckon.
Like someone else was saying:
Step 1. Dope everyone else on your team up to the gills.
Step 2. Get delivered to the line while they mash everyone else.
Step 3. Profit!
I agree Nibali rode some great stages in the tour, but it's sad if this happened with or without him knowing. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, but there should still be an asterisk against his name in the champions' roster.
EDIT: Can't find anything stating his teammates doped in the tours he won.
Well, riders who rode the tour with him have been caught. Of course they could have been clean at the tour but it seems unlikely.
I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt,
in a team run by systematic dopers, that hires dopers and has members caught doping why would you give him the benefit of the doubt?
TBH a clean rider would be publicly going apeshit and trying to move team as they know they will be tainted by association
His silence is deafening on this issue
oh and what the CPT said again....THIS MUST STOP!!!!
just call me lance.
Agreed.
Genuine question - given all the revelations about procycling that have come out over the last two years, are there any examples of team leaders riding clean while the rest of the team had a systemic doping programme?
That's one of the scenarios that's often put out there by apologists but I can't think of an example of it actually happening.
Which team can he go to that is looking for a GT contender? Probably not good form for him to bad mouth his current team without knowing someone else is coming in for him.
This isn't football where he can do a "Tevez" is it?
BMC?
A bit like buying Birthday cards with pre-written messages... it is hard to explain how I feel about all this doping in Pro-Cycling stuff so here are some quotes from another thread which sum it up for me:
It's a tough situation given the position the UCI has taken on the matter. Creating the bio passport is both a blessing and curse. You're making great progress on the anti-doping front but also creating problems other sports just choose to minimize. Taking the (relative) high road is great but you set yourself up for failure. Either way the information must be managed more carefully.I've said this many times but look at how most if not all of the other 'pro' sports manage the issue. PED's rarely come up and when they do it's government investigation (MLB) not the league blowing it up. I don't have the stats at hand but look at how often NFL player's are suspended for a few games without much fuss. It's treated by the media like an injury not a conspiracy or personal attack. And it's not even an issue for the fans. NHL players have it written into their CBA that they get surprise tested twice a year. I was debating with a friend recently who was convinced that 'no way are NHL hockey players using'. It doesn't register as an issue in other sports. Puerto is another great example of this.
To be clear I'm not lobbying for less testing or a relaxing of the rules. Pretending you're going to eliminate the issue and saying the current generation is clean when you will never have full control is naive at best and only encourages perpetual undermining of the 'credibility' so desperately sought.
It sounds like a defeatist approach. Or being a 'doping apologist'. But it really is the reality.Hard core fans and riders know the reality, in comparison to other sports. But crucially the general public and big sponsors do not. So either we carry on down this road, forever shooting ourselves in the foot, or we...gee...I guess try and find a balance between a sustainable sport and one that won't allow outright PED abuse like Lance did.
It's picking the lesser of two evils really.
Another great example - current Test match between Australia and India.Captain Michael Clarke had four injections so he could bat, went on and scored a century. Is seen as a 'true Aussie battler' and a shining example of a 'hardened' captain.
If a cyclist did that simply to get through a race, never mind win it, he's gone. Two years.
Amazing.
Interesting interview with Cookson over on Cyclingnews. He doesn't seem too happy with the outcome so far, I'd say.
Yeah but he can't do anything about it can he..
Told you the UCI needed the Team, can't run an organisation promoting the sport without them as the UCI need the money Astana pay into the UCI.. Some call it swings, some call it roundabouts.
Only real time I admired Nibbs was when he was with Cannondale and Basso blew his guts out dragging him along up the Doli's in the Giro. Since then Nibbs move to Astana has proven only one point IMO, with the right Team around you you only have yourself to blame if you don't win GT's.
Ahh well, hand wringing aside I'm more interested in Sammy Sanchez not getting a gig for 15' and he may retire. This I'm very sad about.. More than this Astana whirligig at least.
Corruption and back handers still rife in the top echelons of my favourite sport it seems, but them I'm used to that..
😕