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CH has been educating me on this stuff after my comment 😆
Since Zwift season is now over I'm REALLY struggling to do structured training. If I go out for a ride I'll do random sprints for segments (such as broomfield hill in strava central park) but that's about as far as it goes.
I've tried doing Z1/Z2 rides outside, it doesn't work for me, even with headphones in I get really bored and can't face another cyclist overtaking me. 😳
Today's tactics, should I get a place, is to sit with the bunch and get myself comfortable in there (not sitting at the back for 40 mins then start to work). Purely racing for fun today - not intending to walk away with a point(s).
I don't think you need to worry Nath- just continue doing what has got you this far 😉
You've got enough fitness in hand to get a bit further I reckon....
A bit further?
If you did a training plan for me imagine the possibilities 8)
(and if I could stop eating like a gannet....)
I'm trying to stick with zwift a bit longer as last year I really lost structure once the club TT season kicked off in April and I peaked way too early. I may drop down to once per week though.
Speaking of which I'm now heading into a run of TTs so no more bunch stuff til early may at the earliest.
I'd get someone with a few more achievements under their belt to write the plan 😆
(Perhaps even one would be a start 😉 )
Indeed. But this thread is about racing. And if you want to really enjoy your racing, then training really needs to be structured and goal oriented. (unless you're a real masochist, and the real enjoyment of racing is from hanging off the back chewing the bars for an hour before getting dropped!)But I always try to incorporate some unstructured rides into my schedule. Also social rides with friends are a good way to shut off from the power meter.
i find it really difficult to do proper structured training outside, so my road rides end up being pretty unstructured. In order to get some improvement, last year I decided to join one of the fast training rides in the area
[url= https://www.strava.com/activities/929588272/segments/22692419896 ]Mammoth Chainy[/url] which at least gives me high intensity ride each week. It's also reasonably (type 2) fun.
I also try to make sure i get at least 1 MTB ride per week to try and break up the 'effort' rides (which is basically anytime I get on the road bike)
My NP in a race isn't far off of my FTP. Hence my 1450w sprint doesn't get a look in because I'm too knackered!
So I either need to raise my FTP so that the 290 odd watts I'm using to finish the race correlates to about Z3- or be braver in the bunch and use less watts to get to the last lap!!
My NP for my last 3 races has been around 238W, which suggests that A) my ftp might be set a bit low, and B) I spend too much time at the back of the field 🙂
I think you probably put out enough power to be in the mix at the sharp end of races, so the areas for improvement are positioning (comes with experience) and weight loss (comes with riding more). you may also want to work on your flexibility and core strength so that you can spend more time in an aero position
Today's tactics, should I get a place, is to sit with the bunch and get myself comfortable in there (not sitting at the back for 40 mins then start to work). Purely racing for fun today - not intending to walk away with a point(s).
good luck nath 🙂
Well that was really good fun! It felt the safest bunch I've ever ridden in.
The only moment came a few laps in when one lad CX'd it up the bank at the start of the main straight. I had to burn a serious match to get back on but at least I avoided crashing into him.
Nath and I found ourselves on the front row by accident and Nath followed through on his joke to launch a CX style attack off the line. Luckily he eased up after 300m 😆
NP was 295w, speed was 27mph until two laps to go when I quietly dropped off the back of the bunch.
I was quite pleased that my two solo laps after that were 2min25 each though- that's a solo PB.
With hindsight, I probably wasn't aggressive enough. There weren't too many opportunities to move up but once or twice I did and instead of carrying my momentum to the front, I sat in about half way back.
On a few occasions, I spotted the front going ballistic way before the guys around me which meant I was able to follow the move much easier than them as I didn't give the elastic as much room to stretch as they did.
The weather helped of course, but it was a great evening (if a little short lived lol!) and if I don't enjoy Thuxton next week then I'll not hesitate to come back- I didn't feel out of my depth.
Haha it was too hard to resist when being at the front of the start. I found myself at the front a couple more times by accident.
I stuck to my plan though, stayed mid bunch all the way through building my confidence and trust in those around me.
I'm glad I wasn't the only person shocked when they announced it would be 5+5 only (circa 10 miles). This blew my chillout with the bunch out of the water.
My normalised power isn't showing up: https://www.strava.com/activities/938058299
Heart rate much higher than usual as I've had 3 coffees today and my stomach was cramped (not supposed to have coffee or cows milk 😳 ).
I was surprised it wasn't faster than it was after they said that! Seeing a few of the guys warming up, I thought some would break but it seemed like it stayed together??
My Speed drills have paid off. Cadence was up to 92 average and I was happy through the bends at 100+ I was also able to follow moves with some 120rpm bursts rather than having to change up.
Everyone at the front was just waiting for someone to make a move, but it never came. Normally that's when I do something silly because I can't hold my nerve/get bored.
I headed down to Hillingdon today to do a few laps to shake off last night, however a club had booked it so I left them to it.
Annoyed at a wasted 12 mile trip on some of the crapiest roads for a cyclist I decided to do an FTP test to see where I'm at.
[url= https://www.strava.com/activities/858620594 ]FTP Test 1 07/02/17 = 305w[/url]
[url= https://www.strava.com/activities/939188689 ]FTP Test 2 12/04/2017 = 315w[/url]
Happy with that, although I'm wondering If I had done it while fresher/not having ridden to hillingdon and back as to whether it would have been higher.
BUT it's nice to see an increase! I'll do them monthly to see where I'm at.
a wasted 12 mile trip on some of the crapiest roads for a cyclist
Heh, I've tried to find a decent route through that area but there just isn't one.
(I work at Hammersmith Hospital; often ride from Hillingdon to there, via Southall, Ealing, Acton.)
Good job, Nath. Always nice to see an increase. 4.5 is damn good for a Cat3
What's the rest of your power profile like? (W/Kg for 5s, 1m, 5m)
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/power-profiling/
Ever since I stopped weight training my sprint power has gradually tailed off - but my weight is also down, so other durations have improved in balance (and given I mostly do time trials and hill climbs nowadays, that's not the end of the world. I'm currently at (bests over last 6 months):
5s - 17.2
1m - 10.7
5m - 6.1
FTP - 4.5
So your relative strength is at VO2MAX. In order to get good results somewhere like Hillingdon, you're going to need to get away in a small group when there's a lull in the pace, use your 5m power to build a lead, then TT to the finish. When the pace starts to ramp up at the end you don't have the raw power (on most occasions) to snap the elastic - and if you can, it will be such a huge effort that it will leave you empty and not able to push on.
I have the classic 'pursuiter' profile, which either means I'm gifted for short efforts, or I need to HTFU during longer ones. 🙄
Mine are
5s - 11.4
1m - 5.9
5m - 4.09
20m - 3.37
FTP - 3.23
Which gives me the profile of a (rubbish) all rounder
Looks like I'm going to have to hit the weights, or get in the break of 3/4 road races if im going to get out of 4th Cat
@nathb 315W is impressive; its basically in the same ball park as the Mammoth Team riders (the ones that get free bikes and kit), and they're all cat1/2
Are you guys quoting powers from flat efforts or up hills? The reason I ask is I find my 1 min power is about 1.5w/kg lower on the flats (maybe more if I specifically went for a 1 min hill climb effort).
Raced the first Hillingdon Masters 50+ race last night. Normally the 40-50 and 50+ are run as one race, but last night they were not. We started a minute (half a lap) behind, and set off at a modest pace. I attacked a lot, chased a lot, eventually broke away with one other, and generally tried for a good workout (Zone 4 TT). We were caught by the 40-50 bunch, who then slowed to the extent that me and my wheelsucker were forever trying not to draft the other bunch as I rode past them on the LHS telling the youngsters to stay out of the way! The wheelsucker seemed happy to sit on the back of the other bunch - a strict no-no. A few signs were put up about being one race, then drop back, which I did - only to overtake again! Finally a group of 8 riders caught me, but we merged with the 40-50 bunch when the lap board for 3 to go (for the 50+ only) was shown. Chaos, we had to sprint through a bunch of riders some of whom thought it was the end of their race too.
Anyway I was sixth in the 50+, some points but better, felt strong and lapped in 2:09 on the race bike (faster than TT bike last week when it was windy). Needs to be just the one race though really as in the past. My average speed was a 4th cat 40 km/h, compared with 48 for the 40-50 race. At the pointy end, there really is no difference in abilities.
Woah! That sounds like carnage. Worse then when the guys at the front of the Cat 4 pack pull us alongside the women and turn the power off 😆
Great job on your position and points 🙂
DQ'd 🙁
Doh!!!!!
How come?!?
Broke away with one other and kept getting mixed up with the second race peloton. I tried to avoid them but they kept slowing then speeding up. All a bit of a mess.
Oh well, separate 50-60 race tomorrow to compensate.
So cadence.....
Did 4x 10min intervals just now.
280, 290, 300 and 310w respectively with 3mins at 150w in between.
Now, I don't mind saying that for whatever reason, I was toast after the 300w interval. HR was around 174 for that one.
I had planned on doing an 8-10 min climb afterwards as a Force workout at low cadence.
So instead, I decided to scrap that idea and do the last interval as the Force session.
Now the first three had been 85rpm. But this one was 65rpm @ 310w.
And guess what? That one was 7bpm lower than the 85rpm 300w interval!!
Now, I've been proud of how I've trained myself to spin faster in races, adding 13rpm to my average across a race.
Perhaps this is a red herring? Because I'm strong/fat, perhaps I should be lowering my cadence on the downhills and flats to aid recovery??
Are you guys quoting powers from flat efforts or up hills?
My 1m and 5 min power numbers are from hill efforts.
I did a 5 min effort on the flat the other day that was about 0.5W/Kg down on my best.
It's not just about strength, it's also about acceleration. Much easier to spin up and accelerate with a bunch than jump up out the saddle and honk after the breakaway. You'll use a lot less energy overall by spinning in that situation.
Good work though. You aren't short of power, that's for certain
Yeah, I totally get that side of it and have noticed exactly that benefit.
But during a lull, I'm wondering whether I should change up a gear or two to help calm the HR..
Nath and I were playing "HR elastic band" during warm up on Tuesday and it was noticeable how much quicker his HR dropped than mine from a similar number- proving that great aerobic fitness he's got!!
Also, you may be at a lower HR, but the idea of higher cadence is to work the aerobic systems more than the anaerobic ones so that you still have sprint strength in your legs when you need it. In this case, you will obviously have a higher HR.
Obviously, everyone can be a bit different, so my spinning cadence may be different to yours.*
* Random aside, one of my clubmates had a crack at the medium gear 25 on Sunday. He clocked a 54.08 on the E2 and averaged 132rpm - on fixed! That was 2nd all time to Zak Carr. Crazy.
Yes- I totally get that I've just proved the point that altering your cadence switches the load from one system to the other.
The thing is, I'm not getting to the pointy end to use my sprint anyway right now so I'm just thinking of ways to maximise the potential of what I have on tap at this moment in time.
I guess I could test it on Zwift over a couple of weeks. 20mins at CP60 followed by a sprint. One week at 70rpm, one week at 90rpm. Best sprint wins 🙂
My bike handling is pretty good IMO and I feel as happy as I'm going to get in the bunch now so I either need to find a way to get better results with what I have or stop wasting entry fees until I'm fitter 🙂
That race on Tuesday lost me 1 fitness point on Strava F+F 😆
132 for nearly an hour is CRAZY!!!
Gray is a bit of a spinner isn't he? Raced at Hillingdon last night too. I quite fancy MG fixed too.
Spent 75 minutes lapping Milton Keynes Bowl this afternoon in a 50+ E1234 race. Arrived 10 minutes before the start, so what warm-up? Attacked, attacked, attacked again. Two got away and I tried to bridge, but it was "chase the guy in blue day". Attacked after a Prime too 🙂 . No joy and I bunch sprint with a lot of old trackies out of winter hibernation. Was about 13/50-odd. Was pretty negative racing to be honest, but the course has only a very shallow gradient anti-clockwise, so getting away is hard.
Another tomorrow, but I may be poking the tiger to get a pass for that one!
Gray is a bit of a spinner isn't he? Raced at Hillingdon last night too
He certainly is.
Greg was also there from The Park. Apparently he tried to bridge to Gray's group but just failed to get there, and finished in the bunch. I'm hoping to get down to a couple of vets races this year (big four-oh in 2 weeks 😯 ), but the Mrs does yoga and it's also our club TT series on Wed evenings. Will see how it goes.
Good luck tomorrow @TiRed!!
Quite enjoying sticking the headphones in and lapping around Hillingdon - going to head back there on Sunday morning. Today I was towing West Drayton cycle club around with me 😆
57 Mile FTR spring classic 2/3/4 for me today, in classic conditions.. 5C and driving rain. 80 started 40 finished. Was happy with a bunch finish (and to finish at all) after 57 miles @ 25 mph :-0 in those conditions. Borderline hypothermia at the finish.
I think the weather made it harder, as people slowed almost to a standstill on the corners, and then it was mental acceleration up to 30mph
Sounds grim Djglover!! Well done on getting through it.
I'm switching to Thruxton tomorrow for a change of scenery and Cat4 only.
I went off piste on my training plan over the weekend. I skipped Friday's recovery ride, did Sunday's long Z2 on Saturday instead of some 5min Anaerobic Endurance intervals and then a 3 man chain gang on Sunday.
I'm not sure what I ended up was as Crit focussed as what I had planned- but I was eventually pleased with Sunday's ride. It took an hour to warm up and shake off Saturday's miles 😀
Recovery day today but will be interesting to see how the legs feel.
Crosshair warming up at Thruxton
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2 laps done and he's sitting in about 11th near front of pack. Its quite spread out but none dropped
5 laps, mid bunch. Hard to say from here if he's going OK or struggling. But he's in there!
Wooo go CH!!
How long (miles) is the circuit??
Starting last lap, he's in bunch but looks from here like hard work to hold
2.5 ish?
Spread out a bit in last few corners but he finish in the back half of bunch.
Shouldn't have skipped my anaerobic intervals 😆
After I'd calmed down from my first lap heroics, I just sat in, ebbed and flowed with the attacks and waited!
Approaching the bell, I was drifting off the back but didn't panic, just held my power and let it come back to me.
By the bottom of the hill (finish is Hill, Chicane, Sprint a little like Hillingdon anti-clockwise) I was in perfect position! I couldn't believe it!!
So when the front five launched, I picked a wheel and went!
Doing great! Just got to hold it for what, 40 more seconds?
Uh- no. Died a death 😀
The guys who'd backed my horse to tow them to the line weren't impressed 😉
Still buzzing- I nearly pulled that off for a point!!!!
Well done CH!
At least you're identifying tactics for next time - it's all a big game of cycle chess!
Sounds like it will come CH!