Where's a good place in the Midlands I could demo one on some suitable terrain? Preferably something that would come in under a grand used so I don't try out something super high end then get disappointed with the more budget option I end up going for!
Due to never having time to take a full day out to ride MTB somewhere decent, thinking of sacking off the MTB for a while (til the kids are older!) and trading for a gravel so I can ride all the bridleways etc locally from the door and just get out on a bike more. MTB isn't fun on these paths (too heavy and draggy) so I often don't bother, gravel seems like it would be ideal in theory.
I just want to get a good idea of what it's actually like to ride one on anything slightly rough or rutted! As I was also wondering if a light 29er HT with 2 sets of wheels/tyres might be a better choice and give the option of "proper" MTB riding when time allows.
Demo a used gravel bike? Only demos will lead to new surely and riding one from a shop and then buying 2nd hand is as bad as sizing up clothes/shoes in a shop while googling the best online price.
unless you get a very generous 2nd hand seller I think you'll struggle
I think you'll struggle to find a comprehensive demo option unless you can find somewhere that hires out such bikes. Sonder do a try-before-you-buy system:
https://alpkit.com/pages/sonder-try-before-you-buy
And their list of gravel bikes:
https://alpkit.com/collections/sonder-gravel-bikes
Just for context, due to flooding I was forced to ride across a field of sugar beet a couple of weeks back. I would have preferred to be on my fat bike but the gravel bike got me across. I wouldn’t have even considered it on my road bike!
Most of my rides are on a mix of river bank, bridleway, fire roads and restricted byways, a gravel bike is perfect. I’d happily ride it on Cannock Chase.
As Kramer said, great until it gets too technical.
I am in the same situation, limited time due to young family and opted to sell my full suss Mtb and got a Specialized Chisel 29er hardtail. It’s a fantastic bike, I commute on it, ride all the local canal paths/ gravel tracks etc but I can also head into the peak given a chance and it rides amazingly for a 100mm hardtail, very confidence inspiring!! I’ve toyed with the idea of a gravel bike but the Chisel just does it all.
difference with a gravel bike is that you can go out your front door and put some distance in at speed, much faster than a road going mtb and then chuck it down some trails
I think the big consideration is, do you want 1x or 2x, in hindsight id have taken 2x just because it nice to be able to get some serious speed on the roads between the gravel.
And re pricing, pretty sure wiggle had some nukeproof diggers for a grand, i've got the top model digger with the rudy fork and dropper and its absolutely insane fun and so much more capable than you could possibly imagine.
I picked up a rather nice used CX bike in the Spring. Cantilever brakes as I had spare wheels so can swap in road tyres. It's been great fun. Ridden some similar tracks to the MTB but you soon bail on anything a bit technical. It's not the same as chucking a full susser down, but for tracks, canal, road and generally going anywhere its much quicker than the MTB.
i’ve got the top model digger with the rudy fork and dropper
Almost a hardtail mountain bike then? 😉
They’d make a gravel bike much more capable.
You’re going to compromise somewhere either way. Only you can decide where that is. I’m down to one bike, a Ti HT, because the riding position and overall ride quality suits me more than a gravel bike. I’d rather compromise on the road bits and be comfier off road. Lots will disagree with me but even on rough towpath a HT is just comfier
difference with a gravel bike is that you can go out your front door and put some distance in at speed, much faster than a road going mtb and then chuck it down some trails
Yeah that's what I'm looking to do. I'm in Northamptonshire so there are no proper trails (or hills!) to speak of, but loads of country roads and bridleways to link up for an hour or so loop. I used to just ride road locally but it'd be nice to be able to ride something more interesting without it being a slog.
That Chisel 29 does look great though, I wonder if there's much real world difference between something like that locked out with gravel tyres, and a gravel bike. Other than the more aero position on the drops. I've never had a proper xc MTB so not sure how it would feel (body position/efficiency wise) compared with the hardcore hardtail/enduro bikes I've always had.
I've been through so many silly ideas of what I'd want out of a Gravel ish bike.
If there is minimal road and tarmac involved, the rigid On One Whippet with carbon forks and light ish finishing kit is what I'd go for - again.
However, any road and it becomes slow compared to something like a Sonder Camino, even if heavier.
I decided that the off road/double track/farm paths/woodland riding was in the main what I wanted to do and for that my hard tail was only marginally slower yet a hell of a lot more comfortable and of course capable if I chose to take a more mtb orientated route or diversion.
Rewind back to Gravel riding, I found it was really basic blue gravel trails and road that I wanted out of that bike, so I went with a Camino. Built as a F&F package, with decent wheels and 45mm tyres, it does feel very rapid on road (relative to my other bikes) and is surprisingly capable off.
After all that, I surmised that unless significant tarmac distance is involved in riding, a light rigid or even HT is probably better.
If you're in the midlands, a good test of this is the long route round Rutland Water. The bike shops offer hire, although not sure if they have gravel bikes in.
Around there, my average speed is faster on the gravel bike and it is still good fun.
That Chisel 29 does look great though, I wonder if there’s much real world difference between something like that locked out with gravel tyres, and a gravel bike.
I have a Chisel and it's a fantastic bike. It's also way more capable than my gravel bike off road but a lot slower on anything less than a blue trail.
They are very different things.
Orro bikes have some models hugely discounted atm i believe, nice looking kit
As others have said, canal towpath, bridleways, etc they are great. I bought an Aluminium Camino last year and have some great rides on it. I am contemplating getting a Giant Revolt frame and swapping my bits over from a Giant Defy I have which I hardly use. Not sure why it would be any better than the Camino though!
I'm in Northants too. Bridleways round here are a horse filled mud fest, so a gravel bike is pretty useless a lot of the time. Even in summer when it dries out many are still bumpy as hell. Much prefer a short travel XC bike.
Rutland only have Rockhoppers to hire by the looks of things! Shame as that would probably be good place to try it out.
Looking like I might have to go to either Sonder or Cotic for a demo ride to at least get a feel for it. Since I probably can't afford anything without selling at least my MTB frame it's a bit of a risk going in blind!
Bridleways round here are a horse filled mud fest, so a gravel bike is pretty useless a lot of the time. Even in summer when it dries out many
Na, they are perfect for those conditions, as the skinny tyres (which you can't buy now) XC bikes used to be. Just limiting them to towpaths and cycle paths just isn't the fun way to ride a gravel bike. Riding everything including MTB trails is where the fun and adrenalin rush is. Modern MTBs are too efficient for most trails so become boring. Spice up your riding with a gravel bike
A Horse and tractor filled mudfest yesterday
basic blue gravel trails
Are gravel trails now graded? 🤣
What does a black double diamond gravel trail look like?
Fast.
Na, they are perfect for those conditions, as the skinny tyres (which you can’t buy now) XC bikes used to be. Just limiting them to towpaths and cycle paths just isn’t the fun way to ride a gravel bike. Riding everything including MTB trails is where the fun and adrenalin rush is.
Tried that with a NS RAG+ buckled the rear wheel and trashed the rear mech. Was also pretty uncomfortable. HT is just more practical for that sort of riding. Depends what you class as fun I guess
I had this dilemma about 6 months back. Ended up with a Trek procaliber XC bike, very fast. Only time a gravel bike would be quicker is top end speed on the road.
I felt the drop bars and lack of suspension would he too limiting and uncomfortable for me personally.
But depends what your background is and what you like riding.
However I do still see the appeal so hsve recently picked up a decathlon RC500 and plan to fit some 35mm tyres on that for mild gravel 🙂
I'm sure they sold a cheap ish gravel bike also.
@_tom_ what’s your current bike?
Vitus Sommet 275 F170mm/R160mm travel. Great for downhill trails, a bit meh on other stuff. Could just be the heavy built kit I've transferred over to the frame from my old bike.
A Horse and tractor filled mudfest yesterday
I've ridden worse on my roadbike on 28mm GP5000s....
Vitus Sommet 275 F170mm/R160mm travel.
Ha ha, you’d need to travel to the Alps to find something to challenge that!
Rather than go full gravel, I’d try a hardtail if I were you? They make gentler riding much more fun whilst still being very capable if you push them.
How far are you from Northampton Bike Park? It’s only little but it’s quite a lot of fun! I started MTBing in Northants in the late ‘80s on something halfway between a klunker and a flat bar gravel bike.
I guess if I were riding there now I’d want something I could still happily get airborne on (not that I’m great at jumping but I still really like getting air as frequently as possible) but still enjoy the linking road sections. Maybe I’d go for a shortish travel hardtail (I’d rather have a slack steel one like a Solaris or Sirius as I’ve concluded that a slightly heavier bike feels better to me and the marginal loss of speed uphill doesn’t matter to me) with the biggest front ring possible and 12 speed 1x.
The tyre thing is the real puzzle - what feels good on tarmac but can also deal with muddy clay horsey bridleways? Does a gravel width mud-ish tyre work?
Tried that with a NS RAG+ buckled the rear wheel and trashed the rear mech
Yep, this is the trouble with modern bikes. You don't need to learn how to pick lines or use finesse anymore, it's just too easy. No wonder you break stuff if you just blat into things like you 're on a long travel mtb
Does a gravel width mud-ish tyre work?
A cinturato S or tundra work well without too much compromise on smoother drier surfaces
“Vitus Sommet 275 F170mm/R160mm travel”
With that much travel I’ve found you need a motor to liven up most bridleways!
Does anyone know anything about the Specialized AWOL? Are the still up there? I like some of the older standards as they are more adaptable re. chainsets with different crank lengths, singles doubles or triples. Nice long front centre for small and xs small with no toe overlap. Seem to be cheap second hand.
The tyre thing is the real puzzle – what feels good on tarmac but can also deal with muddy clay horsey bridleways? Does a gravel width mud-ish tyre work?
Vittoria Terreno Mix is doing me proud, am having a great time blatting around in the mud as if I'm on a CX bike, but no problem holding road-ish speeds when back on the tarmac. I'm on 38s after getting carried away last winter and rimming my 35s once too often 😖
And just generally, this is the best way to use a gravel bike in my opinion, ditch the MTB obsession with gradient and gnar, embrace the flat, twisty and muddy singletracks, of which there are conveniently miles of around every village. Praise the humble dog-walker! 😎
I had found myself in a similar situation, but with slightly more gentle off road available at the edge of the North Cotswolds. I ended up getting a heavily discounted Santa Cruz highball and went for my first spin today about 60/40 on road off road mix. I’m sure a gravel bike would have got around fine but I had fun popping off any tiny lips and drops i found on my way around.
Sounds like you are in a very similar situation to me a few years back.
My mate got a gravel bike in lock down so I followed him and bought a Marin Four Corners second hand. We had some ace rides, straight from the door over canal paths, roads, bridal ways, old railway lines, etc. Thought the Marin felt a bit big so swapped it for a Ragley Trig on c2w. I really enjoyed riding all the old routes that I used to as a child and exploring the more gentle local rides that I probably wouldn't have considered on my big MTB.
After a few bar swaps I wasn't convinced I liked drop bars so picked up a rigid Whippet when they were very cheap and I had a few quid spare. That was okay, but very white goods and the build kit was not very XC and not very light which kind of spoiled it. Oh, and the Sram SX gears were hopeless so when I decided to build up a more aggro hard tail I sold that instead of the Trig.
Still couldn't get on with the drop bars though so sold it at the back end of the summer and bought a Cube Reaction C:62, carbon XC 29er, upgraded with better suss forks and full XT group set. Sold the Trig for around £625, bought the Cube for £600, both were/are in vgc.
The Cube has been great and just what I wanted. I have a few routes that I now regularly ride and it's quicker than the Trig in plenty of sections. Maybe a touch slower on road but quicker everywhere else I'd say. Miles better off road but the tyres still catch me out compared to the proper off road rubber I'm used to. Guess that's the compromise to make it so quick everywhere else?
Still got the aggro HT and my FS so can choose horses for courses but the Cube is easily the most ridden.
Was very nearly tempted by a shiny, new Chisel recently as they can be had half price for £1k but the mince SX group set put me off and it felt heavy in the shop compared to my Cube.
The tyre thing is the real puzzle – what feels good on tarmac but can also deal with muddy clay horsey bridleways? Does a gravel width mud-ish tyre work?
I find my WTB sondero 47mm 650b a versatile tyre. Ok on the road ok in mud, good on farm tracks
A gravel bike works well for me in Bedfordshire. Although being on the green sand ridge probably means more terrain and better drainage than you have.
I think you can rent a sonder gravel bike when you enter a Glorious Gravel event
Na, they are perfect for those conditions, as the skinny tyres (which you can’t buy now) XC bikes used to be. Just limiting them to towpaths and cycle paths just isn’t the fun way to ride a gravel bike. Riding everything including MTB trails is where the fun and adrenalin rush is. Modern MTBs are too efficient for most trails so become boring. Spice up your riding with a gravel bike
You have posted a photo of a distinctly non-muddy bike on some hard pack double track with a bit of mud at the edges and down the middle? There's even a patch of gravel immediately in front of you. 🤣 Also, I cannot see a single hoof print? We have hoof prints that are 8 inches deep around here - they have their own ecosystems, and people literally break bones when misjudging them.
How far are you from Northampton Bike Park?
It's about half hours drive, we've also got Leamington half an hour in the other direction. They're pretty good for a quick ride and the kind of jump trails I like, but yeah still an hour round trip in the car so not ideal to ride to!
Ha ha, you’d need to travel to the Alps to find something to challenge that!
Rather than go full gravel, I’d try a hardtail if I were you? They make gentler riding much more fun whilst still being very capable if you push them.
Previously rode an old Scott Voltage FR for everything and didn't mind that so I thought I'd be ok with big travel. I think this much travel combined with more modern bike geometry just makes it too much for anything less than full send. Also bought it thinking I'd be riding like I used to back in the day, but that's not really the case haha.
My previous bike before this was a 26" hardtail, but again it was built with all the same parts so pretty burly with draggy tyres. Still a slog on the bridleways. I've never had a more lightweight xc/trail or a 29er so not sure if that'd make enough difference.
I was amazed by how much more fun my Ragley Marley (140mm hardtail) made my local (quite tame) trails.
A classic (ie not LLS) geometry hard tail on gravel tyres works just fine . Hardly any slower that a gravel bike but comfy and capable
Basic blue gravel trails - I actually meant the blue trails that are basically gravel, although it can clearly read as you suggest 😀
Was thinking of man made trails like Perrys trail at Cannock, or more local to me, Hicks Lodge.
These types of trails, blue graded and gravel covered in the main, is what I meant.
They are great on a gravel bike, more so when you can ride on the road to get there.
Basic blue gravel trails – I actually meant the blue trails that are basically gravel, although it can clearly read as you suggest
I was only jesting anyway, but yeah, I get ya 😉
Two things I’m considering…
- convert existing short travel XCish bike to commuter/gravel bike (voodoo bizango)
- get a dirt jump bike for winter and blatting around adrenaline alley when it’s cold, dark, muddy OR I’m short on time
“My previous bike before this was a 26″ hardtail, but again it was built with all the same parts so pretty burly with draggy tyres. Still a slog on the bridleways. I’ve never had a more lightweight xc/trail or a 29er so not sure if that’d make enough difference.”
I don’t think it’s the weight that’s the issue, it’s having a bike with a riding position that likes to be pedalled, and some tyres that actually roll well.
I’d get something like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285590081291?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=5G0zxUmZSse&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=lxxt7yr4quq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
You have posted a photo of a distinctly non-muddy bike on some hard pack double track with a bit of mud at the edges and down the middle? There’s even a patch of gravel immediately in front of you. 🤣 Also, I cannot see a single hoof print?
Well, I can't convey the whole bridlepath of around 1.5 miles in one photo and I'll admit the pic was taken after the last few days if dry weather so it's not at it's wet best (worst?), but come and ride it on your gravel bike and see how you get on
Yep, this is the trouble with modern bikes. You don’t need to learn how to pick lines or use finesse anymore, it’s just too easy. No wonder you break stuff if you just blat into things like you ‘re on a long travel mtb
rocketdog you have a clear bias towards gravel bikes, you even wrote an article about them for here. That’s fine, different strokes and all that. I didn’t damage the RAG from having no finesse and I’ve only really ridden HT’s with sub 140mn travel. Gravel bikes are simply the wrong tool for certain jobs. It’s all about compromise and where you’re willing to draw the line on that. I prefer comfort and reliability off road. Just giving the OP a different point of view. If he wants faster road with some mild off road a gravel bike is probably a good shout. If he wants to still have fun on more capable stuff without being beat to shit and riding a bike that has a bit of front suspension or big arse tyres is better
If he wants faster road with some mild off road a gravel bike is probably a good shout. If he wants to still have fun on more capable stuff without being beat to shit and riding a bike that has a bit of front suspension or big arse tyres is better
It's probably the former based on what I've ridden round here, but will try and force myself out over xmas break on the big bike to see what the other bridleways are like 🙂 at the minute it feels like I'd be better off with a gravel and a DJ bike to make the most of what we have in this area. I do kinda like the idea of a fast xc bike too though but looks like I'd be paying a lot more for that if I want something good.
Wishing I didn't jump on the Sommet in the first CRC sale so I could have picked up one of the bargain Vitus Substance or Rapide they had in the liquidation sale instead.
A classic (ie not LLS) geometry hard tail on gravel tyres works just fine . Hardly any slower that a gravel bike but comfy and capable
Yep. Bars are overrated off not going at fast speeds. I can easily swap bars between risers and drops on same bike and it make negligible difference when averaging 16mph on a gravel ride. Drops would be more aero but let's say they make me .2mph faster, not really going to make a noticeable difference to my ride is it.
A hardtail, (XC if you prefer the position - I do), with fast rolling lightish tyres will be pretty much as fast and easy to ride as a gravel bike.
However, if you like/prefer drop bras then get a gravel bike.
However, if you like/prefer drop bras then get a gravel bike.
Love a dropped bra. Still not getting a gravel bike though 😉
Agree that modern geometry and long travel makes traditional UK mountain biking such as riding bridleways a bit boring, however the terrain that can be, and is ridden has fortunately evolved from just being allowed on the occasional bridleway to singletrack at trail centers and now bike parks.
I do kinda like the idea of a fast xc bike too though but looks like I’d be paying a lot more for that if I want something good.
As I mentioned above, if going second hand, in the current market I paid less for my carbon XC HT with XT 12sp group set and reasonable Rockshox fork than I got for my steel GB with 11sp GRX and a carbon fork. From what I've seen there's better value in the XC MTB market.
When I was gravel curious I got a secondhand Boardman ADV 8.9.
Later sold it for pretty much what I paid, when I bought one of those half-price Ragley Trigs.
Would recommend the Boardman in particular. Tons of them about, great bikes, Shimano hydraulic discs - and you'll probably get a bargain if buying secondhand the week before Xmas.
I've a Scott Scale and a Giant Revolt, both are carbon frames and both weigh about the same at around 9kg and a bit with bottles.. the xc bike is a bit draggy and tedious on local loop tarmac and I feel like I'm killing the tyres on the road, although its obviously 'better'/faster in mud and on some of the more lairy Surrey/Kent bridleway descents and technical climbs.
The gravel bike is fun on both and I enjoy the seat of the pants stuff of being 'underbiked' and it's often surprising what you can get up or down with 40mm tyres and no suspension. There are no real drops or jumps on my local bridleway loops and the ground is a mix of gravel tracks and dirt, mud and stretches of loose flint singletrack... the loose rocky bits do hammer the headset..
The xc bike hasn't been out since August as I need to drive 1.5hours + to Swinley, Bedgebury or the Surrey hills to make it worth taking. Gravel bike out the door and I'm in the North Downs and beyond in half an hour of tarmac, park paths and bridleways.
If I could only have one, it would be the Revolt.
rocketdog you have a clear bias towards gravel bikes
It's not bias, it just common sense. Modern MTBs are too good at the off road bits, great if you live in the Alps, but makes riding around Birmingham a bit boring and the numerous tarmac bits tedious. Gravel bikes have brought the thrill of riding local stuff back. A nice flat bar hybrid would do just as good a job but suspension and 2.6" tyres are a bit of a waste/overkill
As I mentioned above, if going second hand, in the current market I paid less for my carbon XC HT with XT 12sp group set and reasonable Rockshox fork than I got for my steel GB with 11sp GRX and a carbon fork. From what I’ve seen there’s better value in the XC MTB market.
Yeah does seem like you got a steal on that bike! Before I decide on anything I'm going to have to reassess the local bridleways on the bike (haven't ridden them for ages) and see if it feels like an xc bike would be better. If it's anything like the ones we use for dog walks then I think gravel would be ok!
GMBN (maybe GCN) did a head to head on gravel bike vs. XC bike over a long distance. Think it might have been the south downs way?
Was mainly gravel trails with a few more spicy downhills.
Although the XC bike did do better on the small number of tech bits, overall the Gravel bike pissed all over the XC bike on that terrain, IIRC.
Matches my experience also. I tend to think XC bikes generally, particularly
hardtails, have been squeezed out other than for proper racing.
Personally I'd usually rather be on my gravel bike until the going gets a bit too tech for a bit too long...and then at that point I'd usually want to be on an fs trail bike instead.
I've been messing about building various kinds of gravel/adventure/touring bikes for decades and always comeback to the same conclusion that a reasonably light, short travel XC hardtail based build is the best for me. Most of my riding is sub 2 hour rides to squeeze them in around a normal busy life though I manage a longer day out or couple of days bikepacking every couple of months, usually an A to B ride when I'm going away somewhere. For the last 3 or 4 years I've had everything from fast gravel bikes, singlespeed gravel, flat bar hardtail with bar ends, more touring type wider tyre gravel bike, and a Rohloff adventure bike build. Of the whole range, my go to bike for the majority of riding has been a steel 29er hardtail frame, 100mm Sid, 100mm dropper post, 50cm non flared drop bars and a 50mm rear gravel tyre with a light 2.1 XC tyre up front. This set up has been used for all sorts of riding, pootling round with the family (I found the drop bars great for when the kids need a push as I can ride closer to them without poking the end of an MTB bar in their ear), fast local gravel, long distance multi day sustrans type rides and even the full loop of the Calder Divide. The same bike with flat bars and bar ends works OK for most stuff but isn't quite as road useful, is a pain through the many gap stiles on lots of my routes and I get achey wrists on long multi dayers. My frame also means I can fit full guards and a rear rack when I need to which is a bonus. Obviously it's going to be different strokes for different folks but that just works really well for me. A recent ride, heading up into the dales on what I thought would be ideal gravel bike territory actually turned out to be the final nail in the coffin of the light gravel bike for me and I sold the bike as I just found it too limiting where my drop bar 29er is really good fun.
Before I decide on anything I’m going to have to reassess the local bridleways on the bike (haven’t ridden them for ages) and see if it feels like an xc bike would be better. If it’s anything like the ones we use for dog walks then I think gravel would be ok!
There really isn't a wrong answer and it'll all come down to whether you get on with drop bars or not. Only reason I changed was that after trying 3 different bars with very different dimensions I still got uncomfortable after 25k or so. As for riding on the drops for any length of time, no chance! I liked every other part of my Trig and liked the variation a GB gave me.
Get down to Sonder and demo a Camino. It'll answer a lot of your questions.
What’s it like doing hops and drops and jumps with drop bars? Not big stuff, just the fun messing about, getting a small distance off the ground, that’s usually possible if you look for little features when you’re out on any XC ride.
What’s it like doing hops and drops and jumps with drop bars? Not big stuff, just the fun messing about, getting a small distance off the ground
Terrifying, and usually accidental, for me.
Others may disagree though.
I'm still advocating a gravel bike
I don't get on with drops, but find the hoods massively more comfortable, and being able to hop to the flats every now and then, i only use the drops for brief intermissions or if i need more aero for a fast downhill or to counteract a horrible headwind
re drops and jumps....
the drops are more secure, on the hoods it feels like i could easily bump off them, also your grip gets much less secure if you try to cover the brakes. so drops is where its at when you hit anything really. It's a little disconcerting because you really are putting your face forwards so you are trusting the bike to not fold under you.. that being said... you are really engaged in the drops, super secure. The whole experience is more thrilling for sure, and you probably aren't doing anything as gnarly as you would on your hardtail, but it feels different for sure. There's a split trail at my local, one side is no more than a kerb onto some rough braking bumps, other side knee height onto a smoother landing... not had the balls to have a go at the larger yet.........
the worse thing is coming into something interesting on the hoods and not being able to transition to the drops due to the rough surface
GMBN (maybe GCN) did a head to head on gravel bike vs. XC bike over a long distance. Think it might have been the south downs way?
Was mainly gravel trails with a few more spicy downhills.Although the XC bike did do better on the small number of tech bits, overall the Gravel bike pissed all over the XC bike on that terrain, IIRC.
Yet we're still waiting for the SDW Double record to be set on a gravel bike (a drop-bar 29er doesn't quite count). I guess it could happen but I expect it'd be more about the rider than the bike if it did.
A gravel bike is never going to be the most efficient bike for longer distances off-road unless the 'off-road' is basically no rougher than a lot of country lanes. Lower volume tyres can't carry speed as efficiently and you get more beat up, plus any riding position that has aero gains on the road / fast gravel is hard to maintain off-road, the more like actual XC it gets the worse the gravel bike geometry is. It all takes its toll on a long ride ime.
What’s it like doing hops and drops and jumps with drop bars?
It's a long time since I was regularly jumping anything on an MTB so this is from a more trad XC kind of rider, but the basic layout of any bike that's half-decent on tarmac (like a gravel bike should be) puts more of your weight in front of the BB than an MTB would. Plus the bars are lower. Anything involving getting the front wheel unweighted is much harder - or if you set the bike up to make it easier it then feels odd on road. And if it has drop bars (imho) it should be a good road bike before it tries to do anything else well too.
There were some hoof prints under this.
https://flic.kr/p/2pnrVwr
And a lane under this
https://flic.kr/p/2pnrVz2
And I still don’t know how to embed Flickr images here. The bars are Whisky Winston before anyone asks. Not drops. Not flats.
Not my usual riding area: I was out of wales and around Melton way.
“It’s a long time since I was regularly jumping anything on an MTB so this is from a more trad XC kind of rider, but the basic layout of any bike that’s half-decent on tarmac (like a gravel bike should be) puts more of your weight in front of the BB than an MTB would. Plus the bars are lower. Anything involving getting the front wheel unweighted is much harder – or if you set the bike up to make it easier it then feels odd on road.”
This is very interesting. So this road/gravel set-up is like the opposite of the Dutch / Jeff Jones approach, with MTBs sort of splitting the difference in where your default weighting is. I’ve hardly ridden drop bar bikes, like a handful of times in my entire life. Does this not cause some issues as soon as the path is even slightly lumpy, with the front wheel bashing into things or hooking up annoyingly?
I used to hop up curbs, over pot holes, speed bumps etc on my road bike so the MTB skills are somewhat translatable 🙂 I never found the drops that comfy though apart from when descending or in headwinds and pretty much spent all my time on the hoods. May have been better off with bullhorn bars!
@chiefgrooveguru One just shifts body weight backwards, to unweight the front wheel slightly. Same as a mountain bike.
Reminded me of a couple of photos from the same obstacle at a cyclocross race where my spare bike was my mtb. Body positioning is pretty similar, but being further back you can see the arm/torso lean is less on the flat bar.
I’ve hardly ridden drop bar bikes, like a handful of times in my entire life. Does this not cause some issues as soon as the path is even slightly lumpy, with the front wheel bashing into things or hooking up annoyingly?
Modern gravel bikes (those not based on road geometry with a bit of extra clearance) handle quite well on lumpy stuff, a 29er wheel us good at this and the 700s on a gravel plus the extra tyre volume react the same smoothing out stuff up to a point if course. You're not going to be winning a DH race on one.
Like most things, riding drops, and you need to be on the drops for technical stuff, hoods are for cruising, it'll take a few rides to adapt to a new way of riding. Especially if you've only ridden flat bars off road. But it becomes intuitive.
So this road/gravel set-up is like the opposite of the Dutch / Jeff Jones approach, with MTBs sort of splitting the difference in where your default weighting is.
As a generalisation, pretty much. Though modern MTBs with steep STAs also put your (seated position) weight more fwd than they did in the past, still, they aren't really designed around seated pedalling like road/gravel bikes are.
I’ve hardly ridden drop bar bikes, like a handful of times in my entire life. Does this not cause some issues as soon as the path is even slightly lumpy, with the front wheel bashing into things or hooking up annoyingly?
Not really but fair to say they can get more tiring to ride on anything rough, sooner than an MTB would ime.
I still don't know quite where the line or tipping point is, or if it stays in the same place for long for any of us .. but there's certainly a point where in the quest for better off-road handling a gravel bike becomes a poor-handling bike on the road - often through a lack of the fwd weight distribution that is a questionable characteristic off-road but something that all good drop bar road bikes have. It's almost as if the Italians learned something between the 50s and the 80s that isn't going to be undone by some grubby MTBers and their LLS ideas : )
Having typed that, LLS had similar issues to a point until the super-short chainstay idea died down.
I'm quite happy adapting to the limitations of a gravel bike (i.e. mine are much more like road bikes with 40mm tyres).
Virtually anything double track is fine although I need to learn to control speed over loose stuff if only for the sake of my rims.
Any singletrack that isn't seriously steep or lumpy is brilliant, dare I say better on a gravel bike than on an MTB. You might say 'what's the point' but having lived in Central Belt Scotland and now Perthshire, I'm almost literally tripping over awesome, flat, sinuous singletrack all over the place, connected by road or farm track.
I don't even miss the old feeling of having to seek out 'gnar' singletrack as there's just so much CXable singletrack out there. Replace gravity with legs and you can ride until you drop. Since I could never jump and didn't really relish drop-offs I don't miss that capability.
Gravel is perhaps the most natural 'niche' I could ever have adopted, I basically have 4 variations of gravel bike in my garage now 🤣
Does this not cause some issues as soon as the path is even slightly lumpy, with the front wheel bashing into things or hooking up annoyingly?
It's an interesting question, because exactly how lumpy ARE the paths you regularly ride? Granted I recently rode Comrie red on my MTB which with roots and rock armouring would have been very unpleasant on the gravel bike. But most natural stuff always has a relatively smooth line through it, worn by feet or wheels. The beauty of the gravel bike is that it's quicker handling also so easier to thread a narrower smoother line between holes and rocks (more-so my old CX bike gravel build, the new custom build with the lower bottom bracket seems less nimble, shows what I know about geometry ☹ ).
Obviously not talking Torridonian descents or descending off Ben Macdui etc. etc.
I have 2 gravel bikes, the more mtb orientated one, a Topstone Lefty, has replaced my hardtail and is more fun on the stuff that I use it on. I do also have a FS eMTB, and a more road orientated gravel bike (Diverge)
more-so my old CX bike gravel build, the new custom build with the lower bottom bracket seems less nimble, shows what I know about geometry
Yep, that is what I like about CX frames and track frames - the higher BB is less stable. I only ride for between 1 and 2 hours and like an 'exciting' bike to ride so prefer quicker handling bikes or twitchy to some I guess.
That is why it is hard to recommend a certain type of bike for gravel riding as there is quite a bit of scope in types of bike that can be used so just need to ride whatever style you enjoy the most.
Yep, that is what I like about CX frames and track frames – the higher BB is less stable. I only ride for between 1 and 2 hours and like an ‘exciting’ bike to ride so prefer quicker handling bikes or twitchy to some I guess.
Yeah, I deliberately asked Rourke to build mine with a 70mm BB drop instead of the 60mm or whatever my Kinesis CX frame is. I confused 'stable at speed' with 'fast handling' 🙄
On the other hand the lower BB means I don't need such an ungainly selection of spacers under the stem 😎
“Reminded me of a couple of photos from the same obstacle at a cyclocross race where my spare bike was my mtb.”
That’s a great pair of photos, it really shows the difference! Are you quite tall? The MTB’s wheelbase looks vastly longer than the CX bike’s.
I’ve been curious about having some kind of rigid off-road bike for years but rationalisation due to limited hours to ride has me at a singlespeed hardtail and a e-full-sus (both with 160mm forks) but if there was more space in the garage I can imagine I’d be trying to work out if a gravel bike, a normal rigid MTB, a Jeff Jones or something like a Cotic Cascade that’s in between gravel and modern MTB would be the way to go. Whichever way, it would have to have a dropper post!
Whichever way, it would have to have a dropper post!
I replaced a Fugio 30 with my Topstone Lefty, so both at the MTB end, both on 650 x 47. I'd had the Fugio for about a year and found the dropper of minimal benefit, and a hassle when attaching a seatpack or bikepacking gear.
On the few times it was useful I'd have been much better off on my FS MTB, so wasn't keen to have one on the Topstone.
I have a small Travers Russti frame and Lauf fork in the loft. I was wondering whether it was worth building back up again with drops or corner bars and gravel tyres. 69.5 Ht angle , 61mm. BB drop with a 60mm stem. Plenty of clearance for decent sized tyres. Thoughts?
I have a small Travers Russti frame and Lauf fork in the loft. I was wondering whether it was worth building back up again with drops or corner bars and gravel tyres. 69.5 Ht angle , 61mm. BB drop with a 60mm stem. Plenty of clearance for decent sized tyres. Thoughts?
Sound like fun, do it!
The AWOL was a great bike, I had one and really enjoyed it. Force 1x and 29x2.1
Comfy riding position and surprisingly capable off-road.
Sold it to finance a custom ti AWOL from Waltly which was the same geo etc but loads lighter. And then because I'm an idiot I sold that when I was doing less riding.
If the old standards don't bother you I would absolutely get one.
Topstone Lefty, has replaced my hardtail and is more fun on the stuff that I use it on.
Yeah, but let’s face it, in a world of blurred lines, the Topstone Lefty is about as fuzzy as the memories of an early 20s night out.
It’s not bias, it just common sense. Modern MTBs are too good at the off road bits
what? Too good as in they have evolved to become exactly the right tool for the job. That’s not showing common sense at all. Just buy an older one or one with less progressive geometry. By that logic we should be riding MTB’s on the road bits because road bikes are too good at that 😂 so OP needs a road bike for off road and a full sus for the road sections!
I’ve been curious about having some kind of rigid off-road bike for years
I’d highly recommend a Stooge. I had a Dirtbomb and it is the only bike I really regret selling. Pretty good at everything and just a really pleasant bike to ride.