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Mert lawhwill (?) designed brake squat into his motorbikes for exactly that reason.
(His design eliminated brake squat, so he had to design it back in to counter the forward momentum brake dive thing)
And a few bike companies have copied this feature into their mtb's - I'm not convinced they all knew what they were doing...
What do you mean?
Well your weight goes forwards when you brake, so your forks dive and the rear extends. If you can get the action of the brake to compress the suspension you'd counteract that extension. Or what awhiles said.
That's what brake squat does. With a rigid fork 100% brake squat completely cancels extension due to your mass rocking forwards but in the process does reduce grip at the rear tyre. To balance the fork dive you'd need even more brake squat, which could be designed in so the bike stays level but gets lower as you brake - but in the process you'd lose even more grip.
Generally about 70% brake squat gives a good balance of geometry preservation and grip.
However in my experience, having a dropper post is the best way to sort the problem, because you can get much lower and get your weight back. On my bike at least this reduces diving to the point it's not an issue.
Welcome to 2010! 😉
orange 5 recently and I didn't like it at all....Pedal bob was horrendous too
Surprised at that as the old models are very efficient providing your running a 32t, if that's the case then it's a design fault rather than an inherent issue with single pivots, no reason they can't be designed to pedal as well/efficiently as anything else.
OP forget about the number of pivots and buy what you like.
I had one for years, it never bobbed significantly.
Welcome to 2010!
Yes, it takes me a while.. 🙂 I don't spend money on bikes, I only got a dropper 6 months ago.
I wouldn't go back to a [s]single pivot[/s] VPP. I have had a few over the years and at the time liked them. I now have [s]VPP[/s] Single Pivot which is much nicer. I tried a new orange 5 recently and I [s]didn't like it at all[/s] bought one.
FTFY 😉
Seriously, all bikes are great. Especially more so if you've not ridden a type of bike for a while, then it becomes even better. A change is good.
The greatest difference in bike feel for me is that a multi pivot bike grips the ground when you brake, and a single pivot skips over the ground.
As a dobber of a rider, less grip is better for me, as it makes me actually ride faster, and grin.
I never liked having to fight against chain tension when climbing over squared edged bumps. I found my oranges were little better than hardtails on technical climbs because of it. But that was over ten years ago. I've not ridden a modern one.
I noticed that chain growth thing but I got used to it pretty quickly. Saying it's little better than a hard tail though is a bit extreme though. I only get stiffening when I there's a step up, even then it still moves. It feels quite positive to me. But you also get the reverse - after a hit the suspension extends and gives you a little kick at the wheel.
Rickon makes a good point, and it's why Oranges have a reputation for being fun bikes to ride even if they're not considered by some to be the most refined. Personally, I think the newer crops or Oranges are super-plush but they still give useful feedback on sketchy terrain like wet roots. As for climbing, never had a problem with bob on single-pivots - I find they dig in nicely on steep, techy stuff.
I should add I was mostly talking about the Patriot with its seven inches of travel. It was much less noticeable on the Five.
Thanks for all the advice ... plenty to think about. Will go and check it out this weekend. Then it will be what colour 😯
cyan blue or neon orange , the only two colours nothing else should leave Halifax ...Fact
cyan blue or neon orange
Actually agree 🙂
Although Fizzy Orange is also fine.
Not fizzy, it's atomic orange you need. As close to neon as they do. 8)
I've got a neon orange five in the shed. I occasionally toy with the idea of selling it. Then I realise it's a neon orange five and come to my senses 🙂
Technically my Horst-link Smuggler is a better bike, but the five is just so much fun and did I mention the neon orange.
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I've had a Five for a couple of years and it's great fun. I'm no expert, so anything that makes life easier is good for me. I'm generally unaware of the suspension - which is a good thing - it just keeps the bike moving along whatever mistakes I make. Likewise for the Cane Creek DB inline shock - seems to work well with the Five's pivot.
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When you said dbinline is great I though, oh dear, but.... I reckon the coil version will be ideal for the new five.
I had a couple of 03 Hecklers and a mk1 Nomad.
I had a heap of fun on them both but the away the latter climbed in low gears was mildly annoying given it cost 4 x the price (sh). I still lust after the former.
The amount talked about suspension design is unbelievable. It's entirely possible to have a huge amount of fun, go fast, whatever on SP,or any design.
Its also possible to spend hours and ££££ reading brochures and websites, mincing about whether your bikes suspension operates better under braking, climbing whatever, and agonising over the lost microseconds.
I know ewhat I preferred doing.
Well, my Covert (SP) rides great. Have taken a Rocket Max (SP) for a test ride is it was great. Taking a Hightower out today for a test ride. Based on some of the comments about magical VPP suspension it better blow my mind. I suspect it won't, but I remain open minded about it, looking forward to the ride.
Roverpig... That's the only orange colour they should do.... Same as mine 😉
But and it's a big but.. That strange 29er in mountain mint has got the bank account and wife sweating
No OP, I don't think you will regret it. Get a great shock tuned to the suspension design and it will be great.
The other thing about buying an Orange is that you'll most likely turn into a total nobber on the internet.
how long have you had yours?
HaHa ... I was going to ask 'thepodge', the exact same question.
Nothing like reducing someone to a cultural stereotype. 😆