Hola
I'm getting pretty sick of being discriminated against just for being a bloke. Just entered the steel city downhill, were I have to pay £5 more just for being male. The organisers say they charge women less to encourage them, which is bollockd as if you've gone and bought a DH bike, travelled to an event , food, fuel etc then the entry fee is usually the cheap bit, so your not less likely to do it if it was equally priced. Another annoying thing is womens only events, such as sportives, you spend 5 hours on a bike riding a road that's not a race so why women's only? Most women I know would rather die than enter a women only event.
Just because most women you know don't want to enter women only events, doesn't mean that there are not plenty that do. Riding with an all women group is very different and it's nice sometimes.
Oh, and clearly reducing the price is working, otherwise they wouldn't do it, would they?
Rachel
Reducing the price is not working, as DH ravcng is still mostly men . Surely women should want to do something for the fun of it not just caus it's cheaper. And this women's only events feel different is a load of bollocks, as events should be about people on a bike, having fun on a bike, not about someone's sex. If women feel hard done by in cycling they should be empowered to change it, not set up there own women's only events as means that things won't change .
As far as I can see, you are a bit pissed that women pay a fiver less for an event you have entered and people shouldn't be offered an event if it isn't aimed at you or your mates?
Why have to change something if what you want is something a bit different? Why not have both?
I suggest you go for a sex change then. That is if you can find anything to chop off in the first place. You dont pay £5 more for being a bloke, women just pay £5 less. Whats wrong incouraging them into the sport? Did some girl kick your ass at the event and your feeling bitter about it?
Some women prefer to go out with their own, especially when new to the sport. I think maybe they should provide further reductions for women entrants, and fund it by increasing the blokes price...
Its a lot of fuss over the 'extra' £5 you are paying.
[i]Did some girl kick your ass at the event and your feeling bitter about it?[/i]
Thats the first thing that came to my mind, but I didn't post it as I thought it might be inflammatory!
If someone knows teamjellybabys name get on Roots and Rain n find out 😉
I've been beaten by women loads of times, I usually come last. I'm all for encouraging women into events. What is pissing me off how unfair it is for a group of people to get it cheaper for no other reason than there sex. Also, if I see a sportive and think that it'd be a good ride, but then can't as I'm the wrong sex WTF! It should be about riding ! Is it wrong to believe in fairness where everyone pays the same and events are open to all?
i'd happily pay the £5 extra to attract more women to mountain biking.
Have to agree with teamjellybaby here, nothing is ever cheaper for men!
depends on how you work it out. do you spend a fortune on make-up, fashion clothes and spend ages getting ready? I have an extra 45mins to an hour in bed in the morning whilst my mrs gets ready. It all works out in the end
It could be argued that no one forces women to spend money on make up or take extra time getting ready, but that's a bigger argument
no ones forcing you to enter into races either!
But he wants to enter races and shouldn't be penalised for being male!
Think of the fiver as a supplement for not having to queue every time you want a piss
I think that one of the main drivers for the women's only sportives is the opportunity to not ride with arsehole men "racing". You'd better get going with this discrimination thing you've got going by complaining about women only fun runs, women only tennis at Wimbledon, all those women only athletic events, mum's bums and tums at your local leisure centre, women only ante natal clinics, ladies toilets, ladies changing rooms, well women centres, oh sod it.
I'm all in favour of women only events and can appreciate why women would want to take part in them.Men are usually idiots and this is x100 when there are girls about, but I don't see why they should pay less.
They may have to queue for the loo, but don't usually queue to get into the club!
but don't usually queue to get into the club!
this depends on the girl tho! the ugly ones que at the door and toilet!
Does seem pretty pointless charging £5 less for women at a DH event, DH racing is about as full-on MTBing as you get - I doubt it attracts women into the sport as they'll already be very committed to even think of entering.
Women-only sportives are fine by me though, there's obviously a demand for them else women wouldn't enter them. Whether that demand is to avoid blokes racing or whatever doesn't really matter.
Its cheaper for under 19 too. Bloody age discrimination aswell!!! Where will peaty stop?
I would imagine the women only events are as a result of them having to listen to a bloke with somewhere upwards of £2k worth of bike and kit moaning about a fiver.
It's great to see more support and encouragement for women in cycling / mtb'ing. Currently, out of all the possible "outdoor pursuits" (such as climbing etc), cycling has the lowest proportion of women.
Women only events are a great idea for a few reasons. Cycling is so male dominated that a lot of the time I'm the only girl. Even on the normal Saturday ride with my local road club I'm the only woman riding with 40 guys, so often cycling is "men only" by default. I would definately ride with a women's group or event - not all the time, but sometimes as it would be good to have other girls to share experiences with, and to compare my performance with others of the same gender.
The £5 less is probably a gesture to try and encourage more women to take part. As for whether that is fair, be aware that women pay a "price penalty" for being such a minority in cycling. There is very little choice in women's cycling kit, so often we have to pay for a high priced product as we have no option to choose a cheaper alternative. Plus, if you wanted to go into wider societal gender differentiation, thd average women's salary is lower than men's, so we have less money per se.
Personally I love cycling / mtb'ing, and happily keep doing it even when I'm the only girl. The guys I ride with are great, but I do wish there were more women in cycling so fully support any attempts to encourage greater participation.
I remember as a teenager many of the clubs had women enter free or get 2 for 1 drinks deals. It was a great way of stopping these places turning into a sausagefest and good for everybody.
It would be nice to have more women at bike events.
I'm not sure if money is the main deterrant though.
If it brings more women into the sport, where is the harm?? I think its a fantastic idea and appluad the organisers
The organisers take a hit on each female entry, but get more women riding
Seems an excellent idea to me - unless your scarred of being beaten by the fairer sex or you still live in the 1970s?
hugor - agree completely that money isn't the main deterrant, but as a 'gesture of encouragement' then it might be appreciated as a way of offsetting the number of times women have to pay a bit more for cycling-related things. But I don't think it will lead to more women entering the event the OP is referring to.
However, women only clubs, training, and events can, and do, encourage more women into cycling, and for many a female only sportive is a great entry point into that type of event which means hopefully they will go on to do more "mixed gender" sportives in the future.
I think there is something in offering women only cycling events. Sandy has worked hard to promote Hervelo in Edinburgh and its an active club offering a lot to members. That wouldn't have happened if there wasn't interest or demand from potential members.
And to be fair, there is also a gents section, Herrvelo, as well...
Op, just accept that somethings are different prices, thats how it is for unemployed, pensioners, students, parents.... take your pick.
I'm getting pretty sick of being discriminated against just for being a bloke. Just entered the steel city downhill, were I have to pay £5 more just for being male
Just to be clear
Are you annoyed that women are getting a discount and you're not? or are you annoyed that you think you are being charged an extra fiver over the normal entry for being a bloke?
If it's the first one, it's just envy then - rather than any extra burden on your finances
UK women 'earn 27% less than men'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4195852.stm
I think the OP should take a 27% drop in his salary, in order to qualify for the £5 discount. 😉
Dude, only birds complain about sexual discrimination. You're a bloke, BTFU.
😉
Hugor - sausagefest - giggles. Do you grill them lightly with some mustard or wave them around a bit first ?
While I admire the sentiment I am not sure if dropping the price by a fiver really helps. What would help is a less macho attitude, and you sir seem to be part of the problem, not part of the solution.
For a start Marcus that's an average and not every company it's not a rule. Also I am disabled you don't see people getting a discount for that and there are a lot less disabled people racing than women.
Think about the uproar if it was more expensive for women?
In a nutshell women go on about equality in all areas of life, this is something I totally agree with. Infact in some areas it is advantageous to be a woman, the difference is you dont get blokes moaning about it (I tend to though).
No one should be disadvantaged due to their gender. Therfore there should not be a different pricing stucture for women unless the prize fund represents this difference also.
What would help is a less macho attitude
You can't really stop the macho stuff when competition and men are involved, it's primeval
Like wimbledon where womens winner actually gets paid more per game played than men?
Cycling is so male dominated that a lot of the time I'm the only girl
I agree but don't think this is because of any effort to keep Women out. (I am treading on very delicate ground here but...)It would appear that Women (generally of course) do not have such singular passion for one 'interest' as blokes do, or at least that has been my experience for 38 years.
Every single sport I've ever been involved with has been male dominated, always. Conversely, every single shopping centre I've been to has been Female-dominated. Take of that as you will.
I'm all for encouraging female participation too, but I'm not sure the balance will ever be......balanced.
fizzpup - Member
For a start Marcus that's an average and not every company it's not a rule. Also I am disabled you don't see people getting a discount for that and there are a lot less disabled people racing than women.
''For a start'', you need to learn to lighten up and not take take life and other people's (in this case OBVIOUS humour) posts so seriously.
Disabled yet your ride mountain bikes? Hope you're not claiming. 😀
Have to agree with teamjellybaby here, nothing is ever cheaper for men!
Hair dresser springs to mind
I suppose the ends often justify the means, I don't agree that girls should get into clubs free or without having to queue, but appreciate they make it a better place. The same goes for cycling events, but it still seems wrong to me that they should pay less and the complete opposite of equality.
Think about the uproar if it was more expensive for women?
In a nutshell women go on about equality in all areas of life, this is something I totally agree with. Infact in some areas it is advantageous to be a woman, the difference is you dont get blokes moaning about it (I tend to though).
No one should be disadvantaged due to their gender. Therfore there should not be a different pricing stucture for women unless the prize fund represents this difference also.
Coming up next on STW - how white men are the most discriminated against group in our society. 🙄
Disabled yet your ride mountain bikes? Hope you're not claiming.
Have you tried looking up disabled in a dictionary at all?
No one should be disadvantaged due to their gender.
Is anyone disadvantaged though ?
Men pay the [b]standard rate[/b] and women get £5 discount.
Should I consider myself discriminated against at the cinema (As a 39 year old, non student in full time employment) as I can't seem to get any of the discounts available !!!!
I think it can be cultural. In NZ there is a huge womens racing scene, a lot to do with the popularity with Triathletism. It is not unknown for 200 ladies to turn up for a road race.
Here, shopping for handbags and make-up and being a bit useless rather than getting out and playing sport seems to be positively encouraged.
It's my eyes marcus not my legs, no reason not to ride just don't win anything
Think of the fiver as a supplement for not having to queue every time you want a piss
Very drole Jota !!
I am all in favour of female events for many of the reasons given above. Why not create an environment in which female participants are going to feel comfortable and able to enjoy their sport. If they exclude me, so what, let them have their moonwalk etc as it fulfils a very good purpose.
But then at least be consistent. Sexism like racism needs to work both ways. Let's cut out the bleating about male only clubs, events etc. Leave institutions like the MCC, the R&A alone. Overwise the excellent logic for female events falls flat on its face. So if most of these posts are correct, the consequential argument for encouraging more female Mtb outweighs the categorical imperative not to discriminate on the basis of sex?
Just evaluate discrimination isn't negative doesn't mean it's not discrimination, possitive discrimination is illegal under the equality act
Also I wouldn't mind a men's only grass roots race (oooooh controversial) imagine how hard it
Is for young men to focus on learning to race with all them giggling girls.
Fizzpup - or constant chatting? I was running a 30m XC ultra recently in all the snow with three guys. For about 5 miles we were running at the same pace as another group including a very nice lady, except for the fact that she did not stop chatting (didn't even take a breath!). We had to put in a couple of fast miles just to drop her and regain the peace and tranquility of the countryside!! 😉
juan, men have to have their hair cut at least three times as often and if I wanted to change the colour evey week it would cost just as much. Anyway the hair money is soon rebalanced by the drinks not bought! 🙂
You do know that the steel city dh is for the greno wood appeal right? It's going to pay for trails that more men are likely to use.
It's also not a serious race, or even really a DH race. Is there any point getting worked up over it?
Also the people organising it are doing it off their own back for the love of the sport, nothing else. Is it fair to criticise something people are doing off their own back?
So if I had organised a race off my own back and said no blacks I'd be immune from
Criticism? Just because I love the sport. I wouldn't but that's the point your making
Well the main difference is that women in presence of men can behave themselves. It does sadly don't work the other way I am afraid.
bagstard if you don't manage to get the girls to buy you drinks you're doing it wrong 😉
juan,I wasn't talking about me! 🙂
Let's cut out the bleating about male only clubs, events etc. Leave institutions like the MCC, the R&A alone.
It is unfortunate that mountain biking is being touted as [i]the new golf.[/i] Some of the misogynism from over there seems to be leaking over already.
Oh and the girls can behave pretty badly in a female dominated environment!
So if I had organised a race off my own back and said no blacks I'd be immune from
Criticism? Just because I love the sport. I wouldn't but that's the point your making
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the average women earns less than the average man.
likewise children also get charged less.
ocrider - Member
Let's cut out the bleating about male only clubs, events etc. Leave institutions like the MCC, the R&A alone.It is unfortunate that mountain biking is being touted as the new golf. Some of the misogynism from over there seems to be leaking over already.
On the contrary, its just a simple recognition that single sex environments can be conducive to enjoyment. So let them be, but on all sides. Misogynism means anti-female, so how can it be misogynistic to support all female events, preferential pricing etc? But if we are to allow all female clubs and all female events or differential pricing for female participants, then the same should work in reverse, otherwise we are not being logical or fair - merely biased.
Disabled yet your ride mountain bikes? Hope you're not claiming.
[img] http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcScIRwt3BLaDWnP6M3vF-kto2AZGZLEPouZDRf0AiEzZRtzujFBsqf_ls39 [/img]
Is this thread a troll convention?
The opinions pointed out against the original point show a lack of understanding for the whole reason the sport is being made more accessible.
Single gender sport groups/events work well for females for a number of reasons, for which there is loads of evidence. If our culture was more balanced, there would be no need. However, it is currently very divided and to deny that is ridiculous.
This isn't just a sexist mtb thing, it's the product of trying to re-balance macho social environments which don't include large numbers of the population.
I'd like to see mixed gender events as well as single gender, but that would need a fair bit of social progress before we had a big enough female riding population for this to gather momentum.
As said by others, I'd love to see more females in the sport. £5 for a bit of progress is a bargain!
+1 to Herman Shake and the rest who aren't doing their best gumby impression.
[img] 
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So if I had organised a race off my own back and said no blacks I'd be immune from criticism?
It's probably acceptable to charge women less for an event to encourage more women, but unacceptable to charge blacks less for an event to encourage more blacks ...
We're allowed 'women only' clubs/events, but not 'black only' or 'white only' ...
So it seems discrimination is ok if it's dressed up as being done for women for 'positive' reasons ...
EDIT: another +1 for Herman Shakes by the way.
As said by others, I'd love to see more females in the sport. £5 for a bit of progress is a bargain!
Hear, hear! And as a male ballet dancer, I am sick of paying more for my kit, more roles for girls and the whole estrogen-dominated society that ballet is. Its so intimidating. Thank goodness for Matthew Bourne giving us the chance to re-balance this distorted art/sport. I hope my club will give us blokes a 20% discount on our subs to redress the balance. 😉
The £5 cheaper element could just be 'sop' to keep the liberal feminist element of the MTBing community happy. The more radical will view it more as a cheap way of removing responsibility for tackling the wider mysoginistic elements at work within these events, the sport and society as a whole.
Just my thinking anyway.
Well my wife is (obviously) female, an absolute stunner and an ethnic minority! Surely that is worth free entry and a podium place?!
Well my wife is (obviously) female, an absolute stunner and an ethnic minority! Surely that is worth free entry and a podium place?!
POIDH.
Ah Peyote, I love satire, chapeau!
Dude, only birds complain about sexual discrimination. You're a bloke, BTFU.
Yep thats true ❓
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sexism
When you consider that in GB we have some of the top female DH racers in the world, top female cx riders in the world, top female road riders in the world, and top female track riders in the world, it is a shame that cycling doesn't get more media attention to encourage more young females to take up the sport.
Having said that, in my usual riding haunts there are a LOT of female cyclists riding for leisure and there are female teams entered into many of the 12/24 hour events, so it's certainly not all doom and gloom for the ladies 8)
Jesus wept, it's only a fiver. I think the OP needs to MTFU a bit.
joao3v16 - Member
So if I had organised a race off my own back and said no blacks I'd be immune from criticism?
It's probably acceptable to charge women less for an event to encourage more women, but unacceptable to charge blacks less for an event to encourage more blacks ...We're allowed 'women only' clubs/events, but not 'black only' or 'white only' ...
So it seems discrimination is ok if it's dressed up as being done for women for 'positive' reasons ...
EDIT: another +1 for Herman Shakes by the way.
Might want to read his post again seeing as yours contradicts it.
Well, I am organising a Womens race (as part of a night that includes a Mens race and a Family ride) and in the interests of fairness I will be organising some podium beefcake to present the prizes. If anybody would care to apply for the job please email me pics.
Hell, I might even give you a fiver for your troubles.
Hell, I might even give you a fiver for your troubles.
😀
Just for you grum and far from good pics.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63889010@N03/6063011788/in/photostream/
Is this based on being genetically female? Will simply declaring myself female and dressing as a woman be enough to qualify for my discount or do I have to go the whole hog and get the op?
I'm surprised this thread has got this far. Last time we went over this it was about a women-only sporting that STW were advertising/featuring and the thread got pulled PDQ.
nealglover - Member
No one should be disadvantaged due to their gender.
Is anyone disadvantaged though ?
Men pay the standard rate and women get £5 discount.
Should I consider myself discriminated against at the cinema (As a 39 year old, non student in full time employment) as I can't seem to get any of the discounts available !!!!
But if there was a £5 discount for all females there, would that still be fine?
Do less women attend the cinema?