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I've got an Ortlieb version of the one above. Fully waterproof and you can fit a surprising amount in it.
Nice one, Kevin. You're several steps ahead of some TD riders who will be putting on bags for the first time in Banff!
I'm hoping to have my super-light gear well before the Welsh Ride Thing.
Don't worry about your speed. If you can ride all day, you'll do great. I felt pretty unfit on the start-line last year and picked up speed along the way.
Slightly different set up to some of the others so far:
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Went on a stag do on the Llangollen canal at the weekend. Got there on the train so was loads easier with my Brompton. More people than beds so I bivvied on the back of the barge:
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Woke up to these inquisitive critters:
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Panniers have got beer and crisps in them 😀
Used my cheapo decathlon 2 season bag and decathlon thermarest. Was a bit cold so ended up wearing my jeans, merino socks and hat, and Finisterre Etobioke.
Weather was great, good weekend, and I had a nice ride along the towpath.
I think I might do a bit more bikepacking with a folding bike.
some great pics there Colonel, the ducks must have sensed the crisps 😉
I think flatfish has a bell to stop that happening to him 😆
Fair play to ya fella.
i have a bear bell, not a duck belled platypus.(see what i did there).
😉
kerching very good sir 😉
Is this the most 'tagged' thread ever?
Boblo - I paid £245 from field & trek. We have one in town but available mail order. Current tent a bit small and in TD want a tent i will look forward to getting in to.
Aidan - thanks again for advice a few months ago. I had achilles problems a few years ago just stepping on a loaded bike to ride all day about 4 days in. Learnt my lesson. Planning steady start and pick it up in Wyoming....
That's a good price for the Photon. Bargaintastic! I have the Laser Comp and (IIRC) they are the same size/spec, just different weights.
When you can get a 'proper' tent under 1kg, I can't see the point in messing around with tarps... Runs and hides 🙂
Boblo, you can run but you can't hide 😉 ... from time to time I do know what you mean though.
Field and Trek have some good prices but you have to keep checking. I got a Force Ten Helium for £100 in store, there was no mention of it on the website though.
Edit - I can't read
Page 10/11 has a good account of tarps and why some prefer them as opposed to tents. I also have a Laser Photon - never used it. I've not yet found an occasion where I'm expecting to camp out in weather bad enough to warrant a tent, though I'm loath to sell it. {edit: it was bought for a Polaris, just before they axed the proper overnight wilderness camp style events 🙁 }
I've bivied in very cold and quite wet, but the tarp has still seemed the right choice for being flexible and offering me much more space and convenience for cooking and a greater feeling of being out in the wilderness. I've had to learn a fair bit about tarp set-up particularly in worse weather, but it hasn't put me off using tarps.
Also, my siltarp weighs 306g and my Hunka 340g. Still sufficiently lighter than a photon 😀
but what about the midges?
I think what Ian says is very true ^. I find the real benefit of a tarp is the space it offers against a lightweight tent. I believe what lets people down is not taking the time to practice and understand what you can and can't do with a tarp ... it doesn't just have to be a straight forward ridge or lean to but it's those set ups that people see in their mind when tarps get mentioned.
@Colonel ... great stuff, I've a pic somewhere of one of the Rough Stuff Fellowship on a folder high in the Cairngorms - barking mad 😀
Midges - Gossamer Gear bug canopy - 85g, or buy a bivi bag with a built in bug net, like a Rab or something.
Yes my Rab bivvy bag has a built in net. It's also what they term a Crocodile entry. You can zip the midge net up and tie the entry up high (tree, bike etc) so you've a couple of feet of head room but still away from the winged teeth.
OK, tarp vs tent mission. August; Glen Affric. Midges so bad you're inhaling them. Or midwinter, 30mph winds, driving rain/snow. I know the Lasers are not that much bigger than bivvy bags but at least you can sit/eat/wriggle etc which in a bivvy bag is not much fun. And a tarp plus BB must be ~600 - 700g? Does this include miles of string, a machete and inflatable Fatty Mears? Not much in it really.
Tarps... pffffl. 🙂
Ianb, you may want to sell that Photon. I may know a [s]gear freak[/s] potential interested party if you want to move it on. Email in profile.
Having bivvyied lots and wild camped lots - if you are out in the wilds in bad weather a tent wins hands down every time.
For the record, I agree with you TJ 😀
Tent for me if the weathers rubbish...!
Post #1300 (get in)
Bugger missed it again.
My recommendation for a cheap-ish alternative to the Laser is the Terra Nova Argon, don't think they make them any more but they're not too bad a price
[url= http://www.terra-nova.co.uk/Product_Type/Tents/Clearance_Tents/Argon_800_GREEN_END_OF_LINE.html?view=description ]£90 ish from TN direct[/url]
1.1 kg for a 1 man tent you can sit up in. I've got the 900 which you can fit 2 in. Packed size is quite small, and you can ditch the poles and hang it from a tree too.
Thinking of getting either the Altura seatpack as per the previous page, does anyone what the volume is?
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The Ortlieb equivalent is 2.8l. Which one has the most volume if anyone knows?
Hoping to sort out a bivy in the next week or so to test a superlight setup and see how miserable the experience will be. Setup will a balloon bed, 220g(ish) poncho tarp, silk liner and one of these to act as bivy bag and sleeping bag;
I expect it to be a miserable expierence but wish to see how miserable is unbearable and there's only one way to find out...
Ray Mears spends something like 250 nights/year sleeping outside (according to a Radio 5 interview a few weeks back). More often than not, he's sleeping under something he's put together himself. Plus he spends much of his time in parts of the world more extreme than Wales or Scotland.
Tents vs Tarps is a personal preference, and as with most gear choices there are lots of options available. I'm not saying tarps are better than tents in all instances, but don't dismiss tarps if it's a bit wet and windy as there are configurations that offer a good deal of protection if you practice them (though I'm not an expert in this field by any means).
Boblo - I'll think about it. I have my eye on some PHD stuff, so it would fund that I suppose.
edit - Boblo: yes, my tarp inc lines and 10 pegs weighs 306g. My Hunka isn't the lightest at 340g - if you could be confident of reasonable weather, a Rab Alpine Lite is only 200g, which would save a whole pound over a tent - even a Photon.
PSA - Just spotted this deal on Rab Bivvy Bags on Cotswold Outdoors -
[url= http://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/index.cfm/dep/equipment/cat/tents/subcat/shelters-bivis/fuseaction/products.list/group/230/level/3 ]£70 of Alpine and £25 off Storm bivvy bags[/url]
Good luck with the thermo-lite Jimmers ... I haven't tried one myself but I imagine if your aim is to be cold and fed up you'll do right well 😉
Good luck with the thermo-lite Jimmers
Cheers! I've already got a Alpkit Hunka, PD400 sleeping bag and a Wee Airic mat. Which are fairly lightweight and comfy (did the WRT last year and the SDW in winter). I want to measure the relationship between shedding grams versus grimness factor.
EDIT: Plus how much single malt to drain from my flask to keep warm (ignoring advice regarding ingestion of alcohol when mildly hypothermic)
Jimmers be interesting to know how you get on, like you say there's only one way to find out ... will you be taking your PD400 as backup?
No won't be taking the PD400. The bivy spot will be some woods within 40 minutes ride back to my house. Plus I will take a down jacket to be on the safe side.
I also want to try it on a coldish night with rain to see good (bad) the setup is. Will post my thoughts when the deed is done. The thermolite is meant to be warm down 9 degrees with thin clothing so it will be interesting to see how it fairs. And it isn't meant to crackle like Blizzard bags.
These seem to be flavour of the month at the moment.
http://www.discountcyclesdirect.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=6693
http://www.cycle-promotions.co.uk/ were selling those last year or the year before at their day sales for a tenner. Might have been a bit smaller though. Got one and never used it as yet.
£10 on the table if you want to sell it on?
IanB - MemberRay Mears spends something like 250 nights/year sleeping outside (according to a Radio 5 interview a few weeks back). More often than not, he's sleeping under something he's put together himself. Plus he spends much of his time in parts of the world more extreme than Wales or Scotland.
I don't believe a word of that.
I spent 3 weeks in patagonia sleeping under tarps in a bivvy bag during the autumn. One of the most unpleasant experiences in my life. I was damp the whole time - just about got trench willy! Some of the group I was with got hypothermia.
Your sleeping bag gets wet when you try to pack it up, your kit all gets wet and cannot be dried out as you have nowhere dry to store it, a tarp simply does not provide the protection from driving rain and soaking ground
It might be fine on a good day in the UK but for multiple nights or bad weather it is unpleasant verging on dangerous.
Your sleeping bag gets wet when you try to pack it up, your kit all gets wet and cannot be dried out as you have nowhere dry to store it, a tarp simply does not provide the protection from driving rain and soaking ground
This is a limitation to bivying. If you read the Book of the Bivy by Ronald Turnbull he recommends that every other night or say 1 night in three is spent at a YHA or B 'n' B to dry kit out. As long as the limitations of bivying (with or without a tarp) are understood it is perfectly safe and much more enjoyable than a tent IMHO.
To be fair, if you spend multiple poor weather nights in a Laser Comp with a down bag, you're going to be getting wetter as time goes on. That's the downside of multi day backpacking in our maritime climate.
Wet during the day and unable to dry during the night. I've tried the 'wear it in the sleeping bag till it dries' approach and after a couple of nights, it's grim (especially in winter).
These days, if it's realy pissing down all day/all night, a couple of nights/3 days is my max before a YH/B&B/5* hotel 🙂
I bet Fatty Mears spends 250 nights tarping just like Bear spends nights sleeping in camel corpses 😉
BTW, that Thermalite thing will be plastic bag like. When young and poor, I used to bivvy in one of those silly orange plastic bags. You could count on being cold/soaked/miserable. If it's anything like my Thermalight bivvy bag, it'll weigh ~120g. My Goretex BB weighs ~250g. Well duhhhh! (i.e. reach your own conclusion) 🙂
@Bigface0_0 - Am going to give it a try and will happily sell-on as nearly new if I don't get on with it.
IanB - MemberRay Mears spends something like 250 nights/year sleeping outside (according to a Radio 5 interview a few weeks back). More often than not, he's sleeping under something he's put together himself. Plus he spends much of his time in parts of the world more extreme than Wales or Scotland.
I too, do not believe a word of it, I'm pretty sure that man is never more than 5 mins from a pub and a pie. 😀
More often than not, he's sleeping under something he's put together himself.
Look, I've stretched a blanket between two pub chairs and made a den!
I'll enjoy my pint and bar meal here..
Plus he spends much of his time in parts of the world more extreme than Wales or Scotland.
Yes, wild Etchingham, although it doesn't look that extreme but if you go in the local with your muddy boots on then there will be hell to pay..
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If you look hard enough you can see Ray under a table.
nb. I love Ray really 🙂
The thermolite has a hole in the bottom and velcro sealable side for ventilation and the inside is meant to reflect bodyheat which a bivy big doesn't. Not saying it's better than a bivy bag (probably not) but as I said before there is only one to find out.
Jimers, you're not planning on using a down bag in it are you?
Ok then, TJs comments have scared me. The potential litigation could be tremendous ... next year it'll be the Welsh B&B Thing 😀
No, only on planning on using a silk liner and (synthetic) down jacket (if required). I am expecting moisture to be on the inside in the morning. Will be using a tarp as well so I won't be breathing into it.
still s8tannorm
Sorry 😳
Ok then, TJs comments have scared me. The potential litigation could be tremendous ... next year it'll be the Welsh B&B Thing
i think some people did that last year?? 😆
Wah, wah, wah.
Blimey, you lot are tetchy this afternoon. I quote a statement from the horses mouth and people still say it's rubbish 🙄
Even if Ray Mears spends half his sleeping nights outside, it's quite good I reckon. I only caught the tale end of the interview, but in the bit I did listen to he says that is what he does for a living - learning about different survival techniques around the world. He said he felt extremely privileged to be able to do it and how it was something he'd been interested in when he was a boy.
Boblo, which goretex bivvy bag weighs 250g?
I reckon it's the fact the sun's come out ... everyone's going slightly odd (er than usual) 😉
New here hello 🙂
This thread is what got me to sign on to STW, it has been a very good read with some excellent links and information, i like the leaning to extreme lightweight kit £££ and Lidl specials, keep up the good work.
As valleydaddy pointed out the Lidl special i sort of went into one today for a look, and bought it, for £12.99 you cant go wrong and wont cry if you burn it down.
Some random weights, i bought Mrs ace a Terra Nova laser several years ago, thats 1270grams bagged up, excellent tent.
I also have a british army poncho that i have spent many nights under, that weighs 952grams.
The valleydaddy special 🙂
Well you get what you pay for, the poles are nasty but usable, overall tent construction seems very good, and it had a dual door of windproof or open with midge net. Hydrostatic head is 2000mm, floor size is 120cm X 190cm and it sits at 90cm highest point by door and comes with a 3 year warranty ! it has some internal pockets in the tent. Overall cant moan at £12.99 if it only lasts several trips its a good base to start from.
Rocktrail Hiking tent by Milomex Ltd (no web address anywhere on packets or manual)
Overall Bagged weight 1600g
Unbagged weight 1512g
Guy Ropes, Flo green x4 29g
Pegs steel 20g each. 11 supplied 217g (factor in a +/- variance on weights to uncalibrated scales and i didnt weigh each peg to check)
Tent, single skin 777g
Poles, fibre glass shock corded, front is 2 pole A-frame with a 3rd running the spine. A-frame 207g Spine pole 274g both 481g.
I reckon with a play around you might be able to ditch the poles and use extra guy lines to hang the tent, also swapping out steel pegs to alloy or Ti or carbon as well could drop the weight down to around 1kg.
Its cheap and ripe for a starter to play with and could be bought down a fair bit in weight, quite a good impulse buy. Just have to put it up and have a look.
Listening to the arguments above I decided on a tent rather than a bivy for the Tour Divide as weather is unpredictable. Bugs are a problem in some areas and I have not done enough bivying to be confident about it. When the TD is over I will be travelling around a bit and may need some privacy as well.
My thought process was something like 'what would it take me to leave a town early evening to do another 2/3 hours on the trail?' A tent I hope will allow me to do this.
I also sleep 'cold' and a tent might keep me a bit warmer than a gale blowing around inside bivy. I have an Alpkit pipedream 800 but it proved to big for my set up and bought a smaller, less warm bag.
Excellent thread this. (Did 4 hours with fully loaded bag today in the sun)
Would still go for a bivy if the weather was looking good and just for a weekend.
Anthony - Member
Boblo, which goretex bivvy bag weighs 250g?
Errrm, well, errrrrmm, shuffle shuffle...
You when you 'think' you remember something and, well, errr....
Suffice to say, I just went and weighed it. GOOD NEWS!!! The top half weighs 250g. Bad news, so does the bottom half... 🙂
Yep, senile cretin that I am. It weighs just over 500g. Heavier than I remember for sure.
That happens when you get older. I find myself repeating things these days. At least I'm not repeating myself.
I hope this doesn't annoy Ian too much, but George Fisher are selling Siltarp 1's for £45 with free delivery.
I may have indulged and it's showing as being dispatched 🙂
Erm ... must resist, must resist, must resist!
Following on from the cheap aluminium pans a few pages back .... it would appear they're now cheaper. 4 hard anodised pans for under 7 quid seems rather good value.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Coleman-204028-Solo-Cook-Kit/dp/B000YESELO
Looking for a tarp myself after alpkit have sold out. Siltarp 1 looks a bit small though?
You are made of sterner stuff than me Stuart - I have just succumbed..
How much weight do you mind carrying Chew? DD stuffs well made and well priced but not the lightest.
http://www.ddhammocks.com/products/tarps
We had 5 and a half under a big one before Christmas.
EDIT: Or have a look here, plenty to go at. http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/page112.asp
We had 5 and a half under a big one before Christmas.
Steve won't be happy 😕 his toes still haven't thawed out 😉
Thanks Stuart
Think thats ideal, and hopefully i wont need it for this years WRT if we're not going to be able to bothie it like last year.
that links sold out but this is fine
http://www.proadventure.co.uk/acatalog/DD_Tarp__new_lightweight_model_3m_x_3m.html
You've met her Kevin ... she'd kill me if another one turned up 😉
Anthony, that sort of thing usually happens to me.
It would be wrong to order one from George Fisher and send it back to Winwood wouldn't it?
It's second hand now so I'll give you £30 😀
wow this thread is on fire tonight!!!
Who mentioned fire again 😳
Cheers for the PSA on the rab bivy bags.
sold
Andy
I'm currently feel like I'm stuck in some sort of a bivi limbo...
... There's nothing I can think of that I need to buy or make. My next definite bivi is all planned out (a crafty little Easter sea kayaking excursion along the South Devon coast). And, although we might be able to get a Dartmoor biking bivi in this Saturday, the weather looks crap and there's a beer festival attendance planned at Newton Abbot on Friday night.
If I'm not careful I might have to turn my attention to putting some shelves up or turning over the vegetable plot in the garden 🙁
There must be something I need to fashion out of old tent flysheets or coke cans or something ❓
Funnily enough i have the same feeling at the moment.
I need to spend some money that the wife doesn't know about. 😳
Whores and lapdancers are old hat now so don't bother with those kind of suggestions.
Slightly different purchase but.... (Slugwash's Kayak reference made me think of it)
... as a side and as a Dinghy owner as well a bike owner if anybody fancies a really good book have a look at this.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Unlikely-Voyage-Jack-Crow-Odyssey/dp/1574091522
Read it a few years back and it stands out as one of my all time favourite books.
Sets off in a Mirror form Lake Vyrnwy in North Wales and end up by the Black Sea. Most nights he stretches a tarp over the boom and sleeps on the boat. Gets captured by pirates, stays at Eton, negotiates the Bristol Channel with a breeze block on some rope for an anchor and all while wearing a Pith Helmet. Great book and well worth the £10
Last of the big spenders I picked up one of these today 😉
http://www.poundland.co.uk/product-range/a-z/outdoor-solutions-ground-sheet/
just to use under bivvy or to sit on
also a pack of these for emergency warmth
http://www.poundland.co.uk/product-range/a-z/outdoor-solutions-twin-pack-emergency-blankets/
decided against the tarp as on page 33 (I think as it was really heavy) the above ground sheet is a lot lighter
Poundland, full of win!
you know you loves it you do! 😆
Did you get the Vesta meals though?
I tell you the best Bivvy food for a £1
yes sure did they only had beef curry today in the Merthyr branch so will give that a go, I just hope my guts can take it 😯
anyone tried the [url= http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-gb/shop/mountain/shelters/twilight-bivy/ ]black diamond twilight bivy bag[/url]? Only 220g for a bivy bag at £119, seems pretty light, shame about the colour.
Any other recommendations on which bag to get? Currently considering the [url= http://www.alpkit.com/shop/cart.php?target=product&product_id=16414&category_id=253 ]Alpkit hunka xl[/url] at 525g for £40. Is the [url= http://www.rockrun.com/products/Rab-Ranger-eVent-Bivi.html ]rab ranger event[/url] at £75 worth the extra?
Oh i'm 6'2" and fairly broadly built shall we say hence considering the hunka xl for extra room 😉
The siltarps certainly are tempting for the weight, are they fairly durable or likely to rip at the first breath of wind?
I had a normal Hunka, it was a touch tight/small for me, I sold it to IanB, Ian looks like he may weigh 10st wet through with his coat on. I don't (I think I may be half again) the XL suits me better.
Great bag though and it seems to breathe just fine.
6'2 and broad get a Hunka XL! or a tent/caravan/B&B
from what the boys say the Hunka xl is well worth the money 😉
but as Stu says above the RAb is good value to - so you pays your money and takes your choice 😉
BBC 4 now about lightweight fabrics for camping.
just catching last 20 mins 😉
Didn't see all of it but wild camping gets a mention. Maybe worth watching on the iplayer tomorrow.
saw the end of the 2 guys wild camping in the snow - bit like us last year 😉
No one seems to be mentioning tarp tents here
im currently using the Golite Shangri La 2 has the options of outer only ,inner nest or floor if foul weather/ winter
The S.L.3 and S.L.5 are also real popular with loads of room for little extra weight and shared between 3 or 5 people
http://www.golite.com/Product/ProdDetail.aspx?p=370002110&mc=&t=&lat=
im also selling my mint condition North Face Solo Tent
1 man 1.1kg , 80 rats if interested
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/the-north-face/solo-12/
Mau, that £120 Black Diamond bivvy is 300g and only water resistant? Rab Survival Zone-Lite and Terra Nova Moonlite are both considerably lighter and cheaper, not sure on the sizing but the standard Survival Zone is huge compared to my sleeping bag.
Ian, to wet your appetite for the phd kit further, I bivvied last night in the Lincs Wolds. Car temp when I returned was 3'C (5' below their recommendation of 8') and I was toasty enough to do away with the silk liner-
Tarp,
Balloon bed,
Rab Survival Zone,
PHD Ultra bag,
Silk Liner,
PHD Minimus vest,
Lifa Base layers,
M&S Merino socks,
Wool beanie.
Was a glorious kit and bike-loading test for my WRT set-up, 8.30pm start- 3 hrs riding on dusty fast trails riding mostly by moonlight, solo bivvy, breakfast then home by 6.30am. I'm just sat catching my breath having a cuppa then off to work. It's lovely making the most of this beautiful weather we have been having.
I also managed to stumble on the 200g Moonlite bivvy on F&T for £50! but with their reputation I don't hold my breath 🙁 It was showing as 1 in stock so fingers crossed.