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Howdy all.
I've had a bit of biking resurgence in recent years, I'm guessing many people have a similar story.
When I was young I wouldn't spend a minute off my bike (an Orange Air-O jump bike). I got to a reasonably level of ability but as I got older I stopped getting out as much and couldn't justify riding round on a tiny frame. A couple of years ago I felt the urge to get back on the bike and brought a cheapish mongoose xc jobby. It looked fairly slack in geometry but boy did it feel different. I felt like a dead weight on it and was near impossible to manual or flick about.
I've since moved on to a Genesis Alpitude which is much much better! But it still feels a bit long and not quite what I'm after. I've checked the geometry and it does seems to be a bit longer that some of the others (seatstays length etc).
Maybe I'm after a bike that doesn't exist. I'm well aware my dirt jumping days are over but they're must be something which is still flickable and easy to get on the back wheel? There's plenty of hardcore hardtails out there but I think many of them would be the same as my Alpitude. I've heard some good things about the Stanton Slackline and the NS Surge. Just wondering if anyone has got any ideas or has been through the same thing?
Shabba
Ps. I'm well aware 'It's Not about the bike' and it's a lot to do with rider ability but geometry does make a difference.
Most hardcore hardtails have suprisingly long chainstays to give them some stability (presumably compensating for the lack of suspension).
I used to do a fair bit of jumping on my 456 but that doesnt fit your ideas, you could considder a Chumba HX1 which is really short stays/low BB/slack angle. Neither's got that 'stays so short you'll fall off the back feeling' though.
The surge has adjustable chain stays which obviously helps. Mine jumps really well - only leaves me short in guts and ability.
Evil Sovereign, short and adjustable chainstays. Slack enough without being silly. It's very design brief was a play bike for city and trail.
Obviously I have one which is why I'm recommending it, but read the reviews.
Any bike with adjustable chain stays would fit the bill, evil sovereign does.
Charge blender
Chain stay lengths
Chumba Hx1 - 16.7"
Stanton Slackline - 16.3"
Evil sovereign 16.22" - 16.93" (edited)
Evil Sovereign with slammed chainstays. Second hand only but they are EXACTLY what you're after.
Lol. A 456 is pretty much the opposite of the poster request. Long long long with long stays.
What the op describes is deeply unfashionable these days. All the mags say long is better. Well that's ok if you ride trail centres and are deeply dull but those of us from a bygone age still lust after small and fun.
The dude from black market bikes knows the score. I read an interview a while back where he was taking the piss out of dhers for riding massive barges. If you ride for fun surely fun geometry is good?
I used to have a revell that was great. Useless as an alrounder but so much fun. What's the geo on a charge blender? Ns bikes. Curtis bikes. Even dmr may have somthing but unless you are a shorarse day rides would be horrific. Not sure you'll find a trail bike with short stays sadly
As mentioned, the Ns Surge, adjustable chainstays 16.2"-16.7". Had mine nicked recently and bought a 2nd hand full suss with long chainstays to replace it, very stable at high speeds but nowhere near as fun :(. I'm seriously considering buying another surge frame or something similar.
Stiffee
My yeti dj frame, must have the shortest stays ever!!
At last some people making some sense! I nearly got crucified for saying a Cotic didn't really fit the bill on bike radar. I think many of these 'Hardcore hardtails' are great bikes but they really are designed for ploughing over stuff rather than flicking it about. Not knocking them but it depends what kind of ride you're after.
Would love an evil sov but they're rare, like wise I can't seem to find a surge anywhere! What's going on! As Van Halen says they seem to be 'deeply unfashionable'. In my younger days I would have made some comment about cross country but I'll refrain...
Cheers for the dimensions tricky disco
all these large frames, big wheels, slack angles and long wheelbases are taking the fun out of biking...
and dont get me started on 11 speed... my bloody fruitbowl is smaller than your cassette!
andiskin. contact hotlines. they are the NS importer so should be able to get you a surge if anyone can.
they do look ace. i wonder if i could get one past the wife...
You are talking about a cotic [url= http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/classic_BFe ]bfe[/url] 16.5 inch chainstays, positively begs to be jumped. I do not understand why you think cotic bfe would not fit the bill? Most 4xers using them use smaller sizes.
Sov
Not got experience with many bikes but +1 on the Charge Blender.
Another vote for Evil Sovereign here. Build quality, all the right angles/ measurements for what you're describing, sliding dropouts etc.
If you can't find one, a Stanton Slackline is pretty much a modern eqivalent in terms of quality and geometry.
I've had a Sov, and 2 NS Surges. Either of these bikes would do the job nicely.
Sov with slammed stays is possibly the most fun bike ever. Not the best all rounder, but it is great for jumps, wheelies and skids 😀
Regarding the all day rides comment above, I use my surge for 30 milers with around 4000 feet of climbing regularly and it is absolutely fine. I'm bang on 6' by the way. I built it up as a play bike to compliment my full suss. After a couple of rides I sold the full suss.
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It's been four years and 9 different lt hardtails and this is the one I remember the one that was most fun
The Sovereign is probably the answer - the earlier ones (as above?) are so steep and short compared to even something like a BFe let alone a 456 or Blue Pig. Or an alternate approach is the Blender which is much slacker with a shorter reach but similar ETT and similar front-centre because the slack seat angle adds ETT length and the short reach stops the front-centre from being really long due to the slack head angle - but that means it won't like being pedalled uphill (wheelieing seated, knees into bars standing).
Cheers fellas,
toys19 to be fair I've never tried a bfe and you may well be right (though I've not heard of anyone using them for 4x?). As far as I'm aware is exactly the same geo as the soul? It's not just about seat stay length, I think the over all geometry is just made more for stability and big drops etc. Of course you could huck it over a few jumps there great bikes just not what I'm after.
Totally agree with you Van Halen! And the wife will never know.
"Wait a minute...are those seat stays shorter! You've gone a brought another one haven't you!"
On another note what ever happened to the term 'Dual Salom' ay!?
You need to read the spec abd developmentnhistory of the bfe on that link i gave you.
And this http://robbierickman.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/bfe-extra-small-and-extra-slate.html
Interesting, it would be good to try a small one and see what it felt like.
andiskin, I have an xs in devon you can have a go on..
Also talk to cy@cotic, he is a top bloke.