[Closed] Sexism in MTB'ing on homepage

Media and advertising

some people in the industry

Sounds like a lot of industry navel-gazing whereas for the most part, people who go out and ride just get on with it in spite of "Media and advertising " and "some people in the industry" and whatever fatuous hand-wringing subject has seized their attention for the moment.

Hmmm, it would appear that I'm a lady then. That's going to come as a shock to the wife !

Sounds like a lot of industry navel-gazing whereas for the most part, people who go out and ride just get on with it in spite of "Media and advertising " and "some people in the industry" and whatever fatuous hand-wringing subject has seized their attention for the moment.

I think the OP was suggesting that the writer of the article seems confused. Saying its wrong to advertise cycling as 'extreme' as it may be sexist, but then in the same hand saying its wrong to advertise to women by saying they only enjoy the gentle things.

661's next poster...

[i]Cycling - its average, buy our stuff.[/i]

😆

I've said it repeatedly on the numerous threads on this subject in the past. As a designer who has worked extensively at the creative end of marketing departments for all kinds of companies, when I hear someone come up with something as tired, cliched and sad as having a half naked female on a poster or advert to promote a product, my heart sinks.

I just think, and generally tend to voice, the opinion: 'is that it? Thats the best you can come up with? You're actually so ****ing terminally dull, unimaginative and backward that of all the creative possibilities open to you, you fell back on that? That really is the best you can manage?

Its tragic that in this day and age, people still think like that

I just think, and generally tend to voice, the opinion: 'is that it? Thats the best you can come up with? You're actually so ****ing terminally dull, unimaginative and backward that of all the creative possibilities open to you, you fell back on that? That really is the best you can manage?

While I applaud your sentiment would it be fair to say that they keep falling back on that cliche because it's been shown time and again to work? Set against all that evidence, all the other creative options start to look like a bit of a risk.

Its tragic that in this day and age, people still think like that

Yes - but these marketing 'people' are just representative of 'people' at large.

Until consumers stop being duped by obvious sexist advertising it will be an easy fallback for the marketing 'people'.

I lose count of how many adverts I accidentally see (I try to switch the TV over most of the time) that I say to my wife afterwards "so, the message is 'buy our product and you'll get to shag a fit woman'".

Luckily I am immune to all this as I tend to only go shopping when I really need something and all my internet purchases are preceded by a 'sort by price ascending' filter.

...do not generally need to push their limits, race against time and increase their adrenaline when riding rough downhill trails,” “They just want to enjoy the time spent in nature on the bike...

Apparently I'm a lady.

Its tragic that in this day and age, people still think like that

It's true, but then you have a woman supposedly standing up for equality saying:

“Female cyclists do not generally need to push their limits, race against time and increase their adrenaline when riding rough downhill trails,” “They just want to enjoy the time spent in nature on the bike, and their expectations from the bike are completely different than men’s,”

Which is pretty much saying "you're not really very masculine if you just want to go for a ride".

Now the 661 advert was most likely as you said, the result of a complete lack of original ideas. But look at the shop window of any clothes shop, full of good looking women wearing the products. Where do you draw the line between good looking female models advertising clothing to women, and the same but aimed at men? Maxxis and the socks are obviously on one side of that line, 661 you could (tenuously, it's a fragile straw man at best) was doing it's best to say "look, hey ladies, you can look good in body armor, it's not just all about looking androgynous covered in mud on a hillside in wales"

And before someone says "body image" or "it's not supposed to be about looking good, it's about riding a bike". Just look at ANY MTB advert, not a single 40 something with a slight paunch, it's all Gee Athertons chizzled abs.

[quote=Stoner ]Sounds like a lot of industry navel-gazing whereas for the most part, people who go out and ride just get on with it in spite of "Media and advertising " and "some people in the industry" and whatever fatuous hand-wringing subject has seized their attention for the moment.And/or it's just more click-bait.

And/or it's just more click-bait.

will shortly be "un-following" singletrack towers on twitter unless they pack in the click baiting bolleaux.
We're not all twelve.

661's next poster...

Cycling - its average, buy our stuff.

661s stuff is average at best ime 😉

hence the need to have naked ladies selling their stuff?

What click bait?

It's only click bait if what is at the end of the click isn't what the headline suggested was there.

That's the whole point of a headline! To intrigue you enough to read on. This is not new - it's how the media has always worked and always will. It's a good thing. Honestly, the whole click bait accusation thing really boils my piss.

Plus, the OP seems confused. I know he admitted as such. The Bad quote was not the opinion of Kane, the author but a quotation from a company who reckoned that was a fair generalisation to make about women. The whole valid point of the piece is that out on the trails equality seems to be the norm but in the world of marketing there's some ground to be made up. There is, in effect, a disparity between the real world and what marketers think is the real world.

This is not click bait. This is a valid point well worth making.

bah its all a load of bollox

[img] [/img]

Pretty overwhelmingly unremarkable article really, badly written and full of inconsistencies.

(handbag/ Fairly typical for these parts, if I may say /handbag).

As much as I implore the need to address this issue in MTBing (and everywhere else in life), the Czech marketing blurb 'do not want to push their limits, race against time and increase their adrenaline when riding rough downhill trails,” “They just want to enjoy the time spent in nature on the bike..'

Pretty much describes to a T my GF's attitude to biking. It's the fact that the quote implies that 'all women' are like this that is wrong. Part of me feels that some of the outrage at this quote may be due to a lost in translation thing. The elephant in the room... is that probably quite a lot of women (in proportion to men) do enjoy just riding their bikes, rather than getting involved with the stupid tw@tish aggressive competitive male side of things that is marketed so attractively, and lapped up so hungrily, by most of us..

It is so, so easy to get [i]outraged[/i] by everything on the internetz though.

It's not the best article, but has been written by an "apprentice", so I'm willing to give the youngster a bye on this one. The general sentiment, if not the execution, is well meaning. However, it brings nothing new to the debate, so will probably do as much harm as good.

Nothing to get too frothy about...

will shortly be "un-following" singletrack towers on twitter unless they pack in the click baiting bolleaux.
We're not all twelve.

Sorry, forgot, this is STW, there's obviously loads to get frothy about. 🙄

The elephant in the room is that probably quite a lot of [b]men and[/b] women do enjoy just riding their bikes, rather than getting involved with the stupid ****tish aggressive competitive male side of things that is marketed so attractively to most of us..

FTFY

I don't see anything remotely 'clickbait' on STW....

fin25 - Member

The elephant in the room is that probably quite a lot of men and women do enjoy just riding their bikes, rather than getting involved with the stupid ****tish aggressive competitive male [b]and female [/b]side of things that is marketed so attractively to most of us..

FTFY

FTFY also.

I don't see anything remotely 'clickbait' on STW....

Potentially interesting headline on a popular topic, followed by a article with nothing new in it. It's not "local man earns £2685978333 and gets all the gurlz, click here before this loophole closes", but it's not exactly high quality journalism.

It's a whole month since we last did it
[img] [/img]

Mark - Resident Grumpy

What click bait?

It's only click bait if what is at the end of the click isn't what the headline suggested was there.

That's the whole point of [b]using half neekid ladies[/b]! To intrigue you enough to read on. This is not new - it's how the media has always worked and always will. It's a good thing. Honestly, the whole click bait accusation thing really boils my piss.

Changed that for you.

as a designer myself and having working with loads of clients, I'm glad to report, without exception - companies do seem to be very thoughtful about avoiding anything sexist. i think that as an audience we are also far less likely to just accept stuff thrown in our faces.

i remember as a kid, the peanut backing cards in pubs, page 3 etc etc etc and all sorts of hideous misrepresentations of women. slowly everyone will understand its not cool.

maxxis worked it out recently. it just going to take some longer than others...

“Female cyclists do not generally need to push their limits, race against time and increase their adrenaline when riding rough downhill trails,” “They just want to enjoy the time spent in nature on the bike, and their expectations from the bike are completely different than men’s,”

The problem with saying that women "generally" conform to the quote above, is that those of us who don't conform (and who actually do like pushing our limits, racing, and doing silly things whilst going downhill fast) are seen as a bit un-feminine by both genders.

And it raises a psychological barrier to those women who [b][i]might[/i][/b] want to ride their bike in a "masculine" way but don't want to be seen to be "abnormal".

What click bait?

Maybe it should be called [b]"Do Mountain Bike Marketing Departments Have A Sexism Problem?"[/b]

A lot of people just buy a bike and ride it around with their friends and aren't generally forming stereotypes about other riders, so saying Mountain Biking has a sexism problem sounds misleading.

The issue seems mostly contained within the industry doesn't it?
And I'd be surprised if it was unique to MTB'ing, in fact, maybe the article should compare the advertising to other types of cycling, road riding, triathlon etc. Are they all the same? Is it unique to the "adrenaline" side of things, in which case do Snowboarding, Skateboarding suffer the same marketing issues?

It does seem to be more of a problem in marketing than in real life. I see plenty of women and girls out riding. There's loads of kit out there for women. The top end female athletes are as much a household name to me as the men. I'm sure there are still a few issues, I know woman only skills courses are popular. I presume that's to get away from some male macho dick ruining it but I suspect most people would like avoid him. The sooner the marketing companies catch up, the better

Mark - Resident Grumpy
What click bait?

e.g. when STW kept tweeting link to the mechanical doping article, despite no new content.

FEB16:
Video: The (6 year old) Boys Are Back In Town http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/video-the-6-year-old-boys-are-back-in-town/ …

FEB17:
Six-year-old twins on bikes absolutely shredding it.
http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/video-the-6-year-old-boys-are-back-in-town/ …

FEB13 and FEB14 Millar piece

or "How could this potential buyout affect the way we shop?"
links to an older article about the CRC/Wiggle rumour that had already been tweeted. It doesnt link to an article about anything to do with "the way we shop". It's clickbait. (then another 3x tweets linking to article)

3x "Top tips of the pros" tweets
3x "Icelands legends" tweets

etc
etc

I can manage to remember a tweet. All 140 characters. I dont need another one tomorrow.

Is it me, or are some of you deliberately mis-reading the quote "female cyclists do not generally..."? It's clearly being held up as a bad example of a mysogynistic approach to marketing, in this instance by a czech bike company. It's NOT a quote from someone wanting to encourage gender equality, is it.

I'd be interested in the following analysis...

Take a sample of print publications (yes print because it's a well defined sample group) from action sports (and maybe more general sports publications).

For each one:
Editorial pictures: %s of Male, Female, Neither (eg landscape) or Both
Ad pictures: %s of Male, Female, Neither (eg landscape) or Both
Number of "suggestive" Ads: Be they bikini or 661/Specialized Nurse type.

Also some sort of comparison of whether people are clearly models or althletes by sex too.

I wouldn't mind betting that compared to Moto, Surfing, skate etc. MTBing comes out rather well.

Is it me, or are some of you deliberately mis-reading the quote "female cyclists do not generally..."? It's clearly being held up as a bad example of a mysogynistic approach to marketing, in this instance by a czech bike company

Why do a comparison on a very selective, poor performing baseline? It might show that mtb mags might be a bit better, but it's no comfort if it's merely less sexist than more sexist mags, but more sexist than it needs to be.

Stevet1 - it's because the second statement is from a manufacturer prescribing what women should want, whilst the first comment is about promoting plurality. That's the disctintion i'd make anyway....

@Stoner - for me what you are describing isn't clickbaiting. It's using twitter to promote yourself cleverly as (unless you only follow a few people) tweets are easily missed in the noise of a busy timeline. Whilst I can see your point and accept it might annoy, I'd say it's unjust to put STW's twitter feed on the same level as genuine clickbait feeds.
RM.

I have to say though that the article doesn't help it's cause by being so quote heavy, with a number of voices trying to blend into the central argument. Brave of STW to give space to an apprentice on what was the most viewed news story/topic of last year! 🙂

The point was that when the Chech company said it there was righteous indignation, but when a woman says it on a panel discussion about women in MTBing then it's apparently OK.

The double standards is between people saying "that's not what we want", and marketing departments saying "well, actually, that's what the majority of you do want".

The PC way to promote it would be to just show pic of anyone, any shape, color, sex whatever in the adverts. But that's not what happens, we get black and white photos of white men from Rapha, and boobs from Maxxis. Both could be argued as sexist (or even marginally racist) in their own way. Or they're just acknowledging that biking is the sport of white men.

@legolam

...those of us who don't conform (and who actually do like pushing our limits, racing, and doing silly things whilst going downhill fast) are seen as [S]a bit un-feminine[/s] [b]totally freakin' awesome[/b]

FTFY 😉
.
.
.
(There is also a likely psychological barrier to some men who might want to ride their bike in a chilled out way and not push their limits, but don't want to be seen as 'unmasculine' in the eyes of their peers)

I can manage to remember a tweet. All 140 characters. I dont need another one tomorrow.

You don't but then we don't tweet JUST for your benefit Stoner. What you mistakenly assume is that once you have seen a tweet everyone else must have. Twitter is a stream. At any particular moment only a proportion of users will see any particular tweet. We have close to 50k followers. On average a tweet is seen by 10% of that number, leaving 90% who have not seen it. We retweet the same link to stories often in order to reach the people who didn't see it the first time. Of course there will always be people like you who sit on Twitter 24/7 and see everything. Most other users have other things to be doing.

The answer of course lies in your opening gambit. Just unfollow us.

It's still not clickbait.

"there’s often a focus on the danger and extreme elements of the sport, rather than the benefits to mental health or the opportunity to have an adventure with your friends in the great outdoors."

This is true, but it's nothing to do with gender.

"Media and advertising still largely represents mountain biking as a ‘gentleman’s club’"

This is also true but not really anything to do with the other point.

It just seems really confused tbh, only a small minority of dudes are really into the danger/extreme side of our sport/hobby. (and then there's lots of others who'd like to think they're extreme) This isn't a gender split, it's just an imbalance of writing/visibility.

And no wonder, because it's easy to write about, it's interesting and it presumably sells.

I'm a bit of both....

Does that make me transgender?????

I don't see the need to constantly distinguish men from women in mountain biking. Some people like racing, some like the more extreme stuff, some want a long ride in the countryside. We don't even need women-specific bikes. And we definitely don't need women's kit in pink and purple!
I'm not into 'downhilling' but I like to push myself, learn new skills and I like a bit of adrenaline - fairly similar to the group of mostly men that I go biking with.

I was going to chime in with a statement about what an absolute knockout Traharn Chidley (whose sealskinz vid this article led me to) is, but I don't want to lower the tone. Plus it's probably not a good choice of thread to do so in.. Best not bother.

The thing is some men like watching other men doing sporty stuff, but dont have an intrest in females doing sport, as is seen in football, cycling, swimming etc.

Eg tour series cyckle races, hardly any people watching the womens race, and when the mens races started all the women spectators and riders who where there seemed to disapear, unless they where with a bloke.

Ask yourselves men do you watch womens sport.

[quote=thisisnotaspoon ]The point was that when the Chech company said it there was righteous indignation, but when a woman says it on a panel discussion about women in MTBing then it's apparently OK.

There is a significant difference between the two though. It's not a great analogy, but it's a bit like black people happily using the N word. The thing is, the company was stereotyping, whilst the woman on the discussion wasn't.

BTW I solve the STW Twitter SPAM issue by not bothering to read Twitter (I think I'm subscribed, but it's so long since I've checked I'm not sure).

[quote=project ]Ask yourselves men do you watch womens sport.

Other than beach volleyball? 😉

As it happens I watched more of the women's races at the World CX champs than the men's - though that was mainly because I was cheering on a local girl in one race.

BTW do we get to rehash the whole Maxxis Babes thing on this thread?

Yeah.. Go on then.

🙂

I'd like to see more females in cycling, I don't care
A)how they ride
B)what they wear
C)who tweets about it more than once

[quote=aracer ]BTW do we get to rehash the whole Maxxis Babes thing on this thread?Ok then

Knuckledraggers
Handwringers
Ad hom
Logical fallacy

In
Before
The
Lock

/endofthread

@OP

Am confused.

It's not *that* confusing, surely?

If marketing focuses solely on the macho aspect then that serves to exclude a swathe of the population and a large chunk of potential market (and, as Chris G notes, a chunk that's key to both growth and longevity).

But if a manufacturer's marketing generalises that same swathe as only being interested in (and, arguably, by implication only being capable of) pootling along, then it can also serve to exclude much of that same chunk, because it says that the market has prejudged them and will only cater for certain requirements.

So, whilst it may be true that some women (and, hell, men) are really only in it for little more than pootling, it's deeply patronising and prejudicial to define all women by that, whilst at the same time offering men the whole gamut of choice.

What's needed (and again, this is something picked up on by the article) is an approach that can encompass the universal benefits of mental and physical health, family time, and everything else; but at the same time acknowledge and support everyone's potential and everyone's goals, regardless of sex.

In the grand scheme of everything is it really that big a deal? These types of articles can make me cringe more than the offending piece of literature that it is out to publish its deflammatory remarks against. If you removed the media and the sexism lobbyists that constantly get on their high horses about the subject then I can bet the majority wouldn't be too fussed either way. Mountains out of molehills for the most point. Discriminating sex for the sake of sexism.

For me when I'm out on the bike it makes no odds who I'm out with. Men, Women, we're all the same. We're all Riders.

Glad someone summed up the Maxxis thread. That was one I really couldn't be bothered to even have a look at, such was the entire tedious predictability of how such a thing would run.

It's made clear in the article that it's put together by a journalism student, so take it easy on him.

I cringe when I remember some of my early attempts at feature writing.

As someone who doesn't read mtb mags, i like to ask are there really macho images in them?

but it's a bit like black people happily using the N word.

This gets me. I deal with colour as part of my job and they are [i]not[/i] black. Just like my skin isn't white (the lucky bit are a very light brown while the rest is a translucent bluey colour). Labeling people a colour they are not must be as 'ism' of some sort.

i like to ask are there really macho images in them?

I don't think the issues is whether they are Macho, it's the fact that women are largely excluded save for the purposes of being adornment for selling things.

I've a copy of Jan '16 What Mountain Bike here, and of 114 pages they are 2 articles that are aimed at women. It's a "Gear of the Year" edition, and whilst admittedly there isn't much 'soft' gear anyway, none of it is aimed at women, or the pack test (none are womens versions) or bikes...

I've a MBUK here as well, I doubt it'll be much different.

Edit, a column article about Hannah Barnes, no kit tested, no bikes tested, no images of women.

I think the point for me is that it's just lazy advertising aimed at the teenage gnarshreddes who might want to buy 661 pads.
Sad as impressionable kids don't see a problem with it.

Of course we all grew up peeping over the top of bars hoping the dry roasted dad just bought might reveal a nipple or at least a bit of sideboob, and it's not turned us into a bunch of grumpy old misogynists 😉

My twopence worth..
Novice women that I ride with aspire to be fast daring riders but lack confidence..
Is that because women my age, the target audience with the most disposable income, (children of the 70s and 80s) grew up in an era where sexual stereotypes were more strongly defined..
As a result they may have spent less time honing their cycling skills in the naturally competitive environment of an adolescent peer group, preferring to get themselves a boyfriend with a car..

The best way to build confidence in a novice rider is maybe to take the focus away from rad skills and just get them riding bikes initially..

Seems logical

The internet is stuffed full of socially inadequate people desperately trying to assert their dominance in this cosy safe anonymous new dimension though..
9/10 this seems to be expressed in the form of moral outrage amongst a certain demographic..
Gay as ****

There is a significant difference between the two though. It's not a great analogy, but it's a bit like black people happily using the N word. The thing is, the company was stereotyping, whilst the woman on the discussion wasn't.

It's not though is it,

She's complaining that mountain biking is portrayed as a macho thing to men. Which as a side might be insulting to some women, but it's also flying in the face of the witch hunt against the Chech bike company.

Personally I agree with her, 90% of the women I've met MTBing have erred on the side of endurance racing, days out in the hills etc rather than DH or dirtjumping.

There's some subtleties around the language that maybe could have been better in the advert, but that's probably just lost in translation, the core of the advert was probably in the right place. How are companies supposed to promote cycling to women if they're not allowed to act on what their market research tells them the average women want's form cycling?

It'd be like trying to market XC bikes to trail center stormtroopers, a quick visual survey would sugest that 90% of MTBing blokes would rather bumble round a waymarked route on a 150mm travel bike than get a map out and ride XC bikes. But we don't perceive adverts about the latest Camber/Stumpjumper/Enduro as sexist do we?

(There is also a likely psychological barrier to some men who might want to ride their bike in a chilled out way and not push their limits, but don't want to be seen as 'unmasculine' in the eyes of their peers)

I'm not sure it's just peers. I think it goes deeper than that.

I like to ride my bike, on my own, in nice places, away from the traffic. There are trails that I can't ride that I'd like to, so I'm interested in improving my skills in order to ride those trails comfortably. But comfortably is the key. I'm not interested in the adrenaline side of the sport. I've broken a few bones and it wasn't much fun. I don't enjoy scaring myself and don't want to spend my leisure time doing something I don't enjoy.

I'm comfortable with all that and ride on my own, so don't have to worry about what anybody else thinks. So, why do I still beat myself up if I walk down a section?

Bez - Member

@OP

Am confused.

It's not *that* confusing, surely?

If marketing focuses solely on the macho aspect then that serves to exclude a swathe of the population and a large chunk of potential market (and, as Chris G notes, a chunk that's key to both growth and longevity).

But if a manufacturer's marketing generalises that same swathe as only being interested in (and, arguably, by implication only being capable of) pootling along, then it can also serve to exclude much of that same chunk, because it says that the market has prejudged them and will only cater for certain requirements.

So, whilst it may be true that some women (and, hell, men) are really only in it for little more than pootling, it's deeply patronising and prejudicial to define all women by that, whilst at the same time offering men the whole gamut of choice.

I agree advertisers need to be more inclusive in their advertising at whatever level they pitch at, but I don't think currently men are 'offered the whole gamut of choice'. By advertising to men only at the extreme end only (or at least as much as advertising says women only pootle) that is setting a standard for men to achieve and could be putting off just as many men who don't feel they are capable of that; this is the same as the widely criticised approach idealised adverts telling women how to 'look good'. Of course you could say that most men are bullish and would try anyway, but that's just as sexist a stereo-type as saying women are timid.

What's needed (and again, this is something picked up on by the article) is an approach that can encompass the universal benefits of mental and physical health, family time, and everything else; but at the same time acknowledge and support everyone's potential and everyone's goals, regardless of sex.

True. Making more of this centred approach (in amongst other levels/extremes ranges of our hobby) would be a good way to go. Obviously its not right for advertising everything, a DH bike is aimed at speed and adrenaline for example, but it is getting a more popular approach (i.e. it now leads to sales) through certain brands so that's good to see.

Off the top of my head Charge seem a good example, they sponsor a range of people not just a race team. Women and men doing range of riding. Their adverts/media does not just focus on shredding.

A lot of reference to the Czech brand and it caused some stink at the time, but wasn't the quote lifted from the intro to the women's recreational model and basically a word for word repeat of the info to the men's equivalent but with 'women' inserted in? It was clumsy and jarring taken out of context, from memory STW did a follow up with them that explained it, so it's a little disappointing they're trawling it up as an example of sexism.

The other thing here is women seeing something that 'they' don't agree with (colours, sizing, marketing text, etc) and calling it sexism. Not wanting to pick specifically but Vickypea has an issue with pinks and purples, Mrs hoppy likes purple and will purchase that in preference, it's hardly like men get a wide choice in colour, typically we get black, one of blue or red and enduro neon. Mrs hoppys issue is the lack of kit in her size so where men's runs from xs to xxxl women's is often run only over s to xl and cut on a different shape to her. Both of these are issues for them but I'm not sure they're indicative of sexism just companies selling in sizes and colours they'll sell in suitable quantities to make it worth their while. Yes it can become a self fulfilling prophecy but there are smaller, nicher companies doing non mainstream that will fill those gaps.

Is there a problem with sexism in MTB, maybe but in my experience it sits within the mainstream media/companies rather than the riders and therefore the concept of the article seems to be a bit odd to have a mainstream media outlet telling the riders about an issue that they should be dealing with.

Here's another thing..

I find videos of red bull rampage and youfs hooning around BC railing berms and sending it dull as ditchwater..
I'd much rather watch the sweaty northerners cos that's the kind of riding that I identify with

OK my two pence...

These Twitterstorm advertising gaffes are pretty much outliers and MTBing doesn't have a notable problem with sexism that I can see.

I see a growing number of women on the trails and an inclusive attitude towards them.

One of the UK MTB mags has taken on a female staff writer recently, showing that young women are equally as willing as men to work for peanuts and free parts in order to live the MTB dream.

Set against all that evidence, all the other creative options start to look like a bit of a risk.

Risk? In an "extreme" sport? What were the thinking.

Saw this .... Surfer 'not pretty enough to sponsor'...
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/features/magazine-35663889/35663889 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/features/magazine-35663889/35663889[/url]

Really good article about parallels with gaming on the front page just now

I'm not just trying to be contrary here, but gaming is hardly comparable to MTB is it? The games industry looks massively more sexist to me even as a casual observer - institutionally sexist probably.

I consider myself more right-on than most, but I'm struggling a bit to stay with Singletrack and its recent tubthumping on this subject.

Current article on the parallels between gaming and cycling I thought was very good.

However even as a fully fledged lentil knitting Guardianista I did think the Jeffsy "sexism" outrage was a bit far

I don't get this at all, I've read the whole thread, from what I can see folk aren't happy objectifying females in advertising? Although it is arcaic and on the decline some still think that it sells particularly when targeting a certain audience. Then one forum contributor Vickypea is demanding equality on bikes and clothing?

Car manufacturers target a specific audience, I wouldn't drive my wife's car round on a daily basis as its a girly car, does this make me sexist? Like wise when she bought a new MTB a few years ago she wanted a female specific design a female seat and female specific clothing, she wanted Pink grips and even bought Troy Lee gloves in pink with sparkly diamonds on, if that's not targeting a specific audience then I don't know what is.
She wanted girly clothes and wouldn't give two hoots about its colour she's more interested in fit, form, function, too short or too big wrong fit. She even bought a bike with a girlie name, Two wholly different customers from a specific discipline wanted two very different outcomes.

There's no wonder the advertisers don't know what to do,

I thought Pink didn't generalise a specific genre these days, Pink is often used on the Pro road cycling circuit and I'm not sure they moan about looking like a girl, look at the new FOX racing clobber, cerise Pink and electric blues and greens which I thought were a hark back to the 80's fashion of tight curly perms and big shoulder pads, if you don't want FOX clothing with Pink on then don't buy it, buy a generic bike Unisex it was called when I was at school.

I see advertising but only take notice of the ones that are relating to me I ignore the rest.

I'd say that sexism is a problem in mountain biking but I can't quite understand why Singletrack has chosen to rally against it so much in the last few months. It's been relentless enough that it is perhaps diluting what it's trying to do, lessening the impact.

I appreciate that it is an important issue but is Singletrack the place to tackle it? I can understand it tackling trail access rights etc but sexism in sport is an issue that goes well beyond cycling and there are already organisations taking that on.

I'd say that sexism is a problem in mountain biking but I can't quite understand why Singletrack has chosen to rally against it so much in the last few months. It's been relentless enough that it is perhaps diluting what it's trying to do, lessening the impact.

I appreciate that it is an important issue but is Singletrack the place to tackle it? I can understand it tackling trail access rights etc but sexism in sport is an issue that goes well beyond cycling and there are already organisations taking that on.

Clickbait, they [s]write[/s][i]jump on band wagons and regurgitate press releases into[/i] articles that generate clicks and sell advertising.

I wouldn't drive my wife's car round on a daily basis as its a girly car

What's a girly car? Is it pink, with a rampant rabbit permanently attached to the drivers seat?

I agree MB, I'd prefer to tackle it out on the trail,

Last year riding langsett to ladybower we bumped into two female cyclists at the Jctn to North America. Shit bikes, Inproper attire no food not enough fluid. The girls or in fact women asked how far it was to the cafe, we explained then mentioned carry on or turn back, they carried on we waved them good bye and off we went, We did ladybower onto hag farm cross 57 up to Roman road back round and down fed at the cafe back along the res pushed up rode the flags and got to the top where the bogs are WHERE we met the same two girls, who didn't find the cafe who had no food no water her trainer had split and her feet were hurting they were in a sorry state. We gave them fluid from our camel back and she wasn't bothered about germs etc, I taped her footwear up with some carpet tape from my pack, I gave her some energy gel and some flap jack. We did the old told you so and had a laugh,

**** me 5 or 6 weeks later the EXACT same couple were staying at Cair Gwyn at CYB the same weekend as us, they were well chuffed, Quite nice really as they said had they not bumped back into us they would have never bothered again, the fact that they did had resulted in them spending large amounts of money on biking kit and bikes and were a lot more prepared for the great outdoors, I'm not sure what I'm actually getting at. Except that WE as bikers do what we do for others as we know how to conduct ourselves.

At the top flight of cycling I don't think there's much difference in respect for both sexes, I for one am totally in awe of Laura Trott, her parents must be so proud and her Mum was her inspiration.
We need to spread the word at our level and let others get on with the other shit, just ride and enjoy yourself and don't worry about stupid advertising campaigns because all it goes To highlight is that they don't actually know what we want or need.

Just ride

The article reads to me like an article solely about sexism in video games, but then someone thought if they stuck a couple of mixed paragraphs in at the end comparing it to sexism in mountain biking they could whack the article up on a mountain bike website too.

The next articles should perhaps be:

sexism at motorbike/car shows & sexism in mountain biking
sexism in F1 and sexism in mountain biking
sexism when buying a car & sexism in mountain biking
sexism in mainstream R&B/pop music & sexism in mountain biking

relentless? weve had maybe 4 articles out of a couple of hundred thatve made the stw front page in that time

Its a bid sad to try and accuse stw of throwing out clickbait (any more than any other website) when they want more facebook followers, they go on the forum and ask 😉

STW towers seems to have some women working there, and its nice that they address the issues around being a female mtber in a male dominated industry

lets be honest most of the forum chat is blokey blustering

without wishing to get start an argument

why do some men seem to get so wound up whenever sexism is mentioned?

Theres plenty of road biking and football or fatbikes threads on here I just dont read them as im not interested

@boardinbob, why would it have a rampant rabbit on the drivers seat?

It's a Beetle with a flower in a vase on the dashboard,

Gotta laugh at you kimbers, you're one of the worst for posting sleazy pics. Sexism is right here on the Forum, go you. 🙄

my last sleazy pic was of a Ryan Reynolds being shagged by a strapon for international womens day, thats equality!

I did post a pic of a woman sliding on her bum in fgf last week that was quite sleazy/sexist, so apologies for that, if there are any others please point then out

I haven't noticed his smut-peddling antics, but I'll take your word for it CG.

Kimbers pictured yesterday...
[img] [/img]

I think we should be more concerned about the way that it still seems widely acceptable to call xc riders and xc riding "gay"

I think we should be more concerned about the way that it still seems widely acceptable to call xc riders and xc riding "gay"

Someone from here described 29ers as "gay" on Pinkbike. When I and others called him on it he claimed it's not homophobic. In his world the term "gay" means "girly" or "unimpressive" 😯