[Closed] Santa Cruz nomad 27.5 worth the extra money over 2015 Orange Alpine 160 27.5???

The Nomad, although chunker, is not a particularly 'flickable' bike.

I'd race the SB95 myself.

In fairness I'm 6'3" and it would be easier to throw it around than the SB95 carbon

It was a nice ride but is it worth £1000 extra over the Orange Alpine 160??

You really need to demo both before buying. I'm a huge Orange fan and was left extremely underwhelmed by the Santa Cruz I recently demo'd.

Do you think the SB95 would stand up to it??

I like the New Alpine 160 and whilst the Nomad was a nice bike it didn't blow me away.

Plus you don't have to worry about an Orange I guess. Owned a couple of single pivots but never an orange

Hob Nob is right. The Nomad is a long bike with a low BB so it's hardly going to be "flickable" whatever that means?

An Enduro 650b or even 29" sounds like it would fit the description of what you want better.

Do you think the SB95 would stand up to it??

Yes, though you might need some sturdier wheels.

I'm finally writing a review of my Banshee Spitfire after the best part of a year with it. It really has been bloody brilliant. It's interesting that initially it felt like quite a tank, monster trucking its way over everything with bigger wheels, 160mm Pike and the the magical back end that feels like far more than 140mm.

Now that I've got it tweaked to perfection it is very flickable despite the long wheelbase and slack head angle - partly from running less monstrous tyres (amazing how much grip you get from a bigger wheel and really good suspension), partly from running quite light rebound damping so it's easy to get off the ground, partly from swapping to wider bars and shorter (effective) stem length.

The rougher the terrain, the better it performs. If you want a longer travel version then the Rune is very similar but 160mm at the back. I don't have a problem with carbon frames but they are rather a lot of money for what I consider a fairly insignificant weight saving (might make a difference if you're trying to podium on a race but I'm far from that quick) and although they're probably stronger in terms of longterm fatigue failure resistance they're more prone to crash damage. And the manufacturing process is not terribly nice for anyone. New Alpine looks great! I'd pay the extra for a CCDBA to get the most out of the single-pivot suspension.

I like the adjustable geometry on the Banshees because it changes the feel so much. I don't change it often but it's great to drop the Spitfire to sub 66 deg HA and ground scraping BB for downhill stability on uplift days and then bring it back up for more pedal clearance and flickability on my home trails.

Well I guess an Enduro 650b is what I'm after. Something that will cope with the overly rough stuff a bit better but still pedal reasonably well

Not considered the SB6c? There is certainly a lot of choice out there currently.

Only you can decide if the Nomad is worth the extra money. For me it would be, as I don't like Oranges, or the way single pivots ride. So most bikes would be worth the extra, your own opinion of course may differ.

The Nomad, as said is a big, long bike, that's not very playful, but it is fast, so would be good for the DH racing you want to do. I may (as a Nomad owner) question whether it's too much bike for UK Enduro racing. Something shorter travel, snappier handling & responsiveness might serve you better.

The banshee sounds good and it's a brand I've not looked at in fairness.

I managed to get the SB95 for half price new in a shop and it's my first carbon MTB so I'm still pretty nervous about it but it wasn't quite so hard to justify as it was 3k instead of 6k. I've recently changed the wheels to a chris king on cx ray spokes with stans flow rims which has made a difference but it's still 140/130mm trail bike more so.

Think the real problem is that I've got this shiney build kit sat in my spare room and I'm itching to get it on something

I should point out that I will intend on taking it to bike park wales (and the like) and a few local small DH spots, hence looking at the chunkier end of the enduro market.

I like the sb6 but don't think it will be as strong as a nomad, plus it's not supposed to be available as frame only till July time -ish

Hob Nob is right. The Nomad is a long bike with a low BB so it's hardly going to be "flickable" whatever that means?

The Alpine is WAAAAY longer than the Nomad.

If I'm right a Large alpine 160 27.5 is roughly the same size as an XL Nomad???

My new medium Alpine 650 is 35mm longer in the top tube than my old 18 inch alpine definitely rides more planted.

No, it's bigger. I've just looked. The new Alpine is a massively long bike.

The Alpine isn't WWAAYY longer than the Nomad, the TT is (near enough) the same.
Wheel base ins't far off either IIRC, but I can get & give you exact measurements on Large on Wednesday when I'm back in the shop as we've got both.

The medium Alpine is 42mm longer than the medium Nomad, in terms of bike geometry, that's quite a lot longer. TT length doesn't matter as it doesn't tell the full story, again the reach on the Alpine is considerably longer than the Nomad.

1212mm wheelbase is in the realms of downhill bikes.

Have not noticed the extra length in the wheel base to much when riding, as you say it is quite a bit longer but still climbs just as well as my old alpine and descends even better now 😉

That would be great goldenwonder cheers bud

Could you also have a look at bike weights if you get chance??

To be fair I demoed an XL Nomad and size of that seems similar on paper to a large Alpine.

Felt good but wouldn't want to go any bigger to an XL Alpine.

But wheelbase will also vary depending on fork used, so will vary from bike to bike depending on the build.
Chain stay length & BB height will also dramatically affect the characteristics of the bike, but as I said I can get accurate measurements when I've got them both in front of me later in the week.

1212mm wheelbase is in the realms of downhill bikes.

That is a big bike! My medium Spitfire is 1170mm long and I have no idea how to ride fast enough to exceed its limits. I'd like to see how fast it can handle the rockiest stuff at BPW - when I was there last Sunday it was carrying more speed through the rough than all the other 6" bikes with us, despite my manflu holding me back.

L Alpine 160AM was 33LB on our digital scales.
Nomads are lighter, but by how much depends on the spec. We've built them quite easily to 28lb if you're prepared to spend!

[i]Do you think the SB95 would stand up to it??[/i]

Since you own it already, try it? 🙄

I wonder how much difference there is in frame weights then as my crossmax enduro wheelset should shave some weight along with the 160mm pike solo airs compared to the AM Alpine. I guess my build would be closer to the RS Alpine with Renthal carbon bars and Apex stem etc.

Hopefully with a wheelbase that long ill be going bloody quick but more comfortable than my canyon torque ex vertride which is getting sold. Nice bike but found it a little short on reach even with a 620mm tt length. Find myself having to consciously move my weight backwards.

I will try the sb95 for some smoother enduros next year but won't be entering the MiniDH races on it, lol

Chute, you don't buy an Alpine to care about weight anyway. The geometry will see to that.

I wouldn't want to ride a 28lb Nomad in the Alps anway, it would have some heavy duel plies and wheels attached. As that is too light for it's intended purpose, I'd also rather have that weight in the frame as opposed to having to bang it on at the wheels.

My alpine medium sitting at 29.9llbon the digital scales not to bad weight.

350 ncr forks
1x10 hope trex
middleburn cranks
e 13 trsr rims hope hubs
hope brakes
renthal apex stem carbon bars
cane creek db air cs
schwalbe magic mary super gravity front
Hans dampf rear.
No dropper post as yet

In my opinion Orange bikes stopped being good by comparative standards about 10 years ago, the mountain bike world has moved on a huge distance whilst Orange have stood very very still. I know lots of Brits still love them and thats fine by me but I would not have one given to me !

Not sure I would choose a Nomad either and the Pivot Mach 6 I demoed was very ordinary and not worth anything like its £5k price. I've played around on a top of the range carbon Foxy, it had promise but could not be pushed too hard because the loony distributors have left it shod with Maxxi Ardents which were useless in anything other than a straight line. I would also avoid anything with an Intense badge, they have got to be one of the most overrated, expensive brands there is.

Sorry I could not say, try this or that, its the dogs do dahs but I'm still searching for a top notch enduro bike.

That's not bad at all element for 29.9lbs.
My large sb95 carbon is the same weight!

As long as it still pedals well the weight isn't so much of an issue but I would like it to be as close to 30lbs as possible whatever I end up with. It's true weight isn't everything and it's easier to loose a few lbs off my arse but heavy bikes are hard work and largely a result of poor choices for the Enduro segment any way.

Any thoughts on the new Devinci Spartan alloy or carbon?? Looks pretty solid full carbon frame for £2100

http://www.bikeactive.com/transition-patrol-frame-2015-c2x14677526

Don't know if it's any good, Transition seem to make good bikes though.

Try a Pivot Mach 6. I bloody love mine. But pb2 wasn't so taken with it, so best thing to do is demo all you can, different stokes for different folks and all that. I demoed the Mach 6 and wanted it right away.

In my opinion Orange bikes stopped being good by comparative standards about 10 years ago, the mountain bike world has moved on a huge distance whilst Orange have stood very very still. I know lots of Brits still love them and thats fine by me but I would not have one given to me !

I disagree. These are still very relevant weapons of fell destruction.

 

pb2 - Member 
In my opinion Orange bikes stopped being good by comparative standards about 10 years ago, the mountain bike world has moved on a huge distance whilst Orange have stood very very still. I know lots of Brits still love them and thats fine by me but I would not have one given to me !

The biggest load of bs I've heard on here for a long time....you obviously don't have a clue about bike geometry then do you..

Long story short, hired both a carbon Nomad and (begrudgingly) a Five from Alpine Bikes at Inners in September. Next year I will be getting a Five.

Well I guess an Enduro 650b is what I'm after. Something that will cope with the overly rough stuff a bit better but still pedal reasonably well

I have a carbon Enduro 29 and it certainly does what you are after. It's all the bike I could ever need and then some.

I'd be considering an Alpine Five if I were you. It ticks all the boxes you're after, and is the best bike in the whole of Oranges quiver.

Nah don't want another 29er for the more aggressive rides.
Has to be 650b especially as everything I've got to build in 650b

Going to demo an Orange alpine 160 27.5 next weekend round my local (ish) FOD trail centre routes. Sunset bikes have been pretty cool and I've got it for the weekend so plenty of time to get to know it.

Thinking about trying a pivot Mach 6 afterwards tho

I'd get a knolly warden, and I'm a Santa Cruz rider.

I looked at them knolly's they are right tanks just like transitions

Pb2 - wtf are you on!?

Maybe we should nominate you to be chief tester at whatmtb lmao!

Gotta say those 2015 Transitions look reet tasty and like they're well sorted even before looking at the geo of them.

Knolly warden looks lurvely but yes look a tanks worth but sometimes it is nice having a bike that feels solid than these carbon skitty handling 25lbs 160mm machines.

Not sure its nice having a heavy bike is it?