[Closed] Sad news - Vulpine

I just find it strange that the current method of building a brand is to haemorrhage money for years. What happened to sustainably and profitably building a business?

if you raise 500k, and spend 500k, that's a 500k loss.

You are much better at p&l and business plans than me Ben, but surely it's not a loss If you were to buy £500k of stock.

You are of course correct Brant, as long as you can sell the stock! Otherwise you have spent £500k on worthless clothes.

You are of course correct Brant

Phew.

We borrowed £5k off my dad to buy HebTroCo trousers. Which we have now sold (many times over). He hasn't asked for it back yet but it's his birthday today and was going to give him an update.

Tell him I like my pair!

I might not have all the facts or all the knowledge, but given the bikebiz article, I can't believe anyone running a start up business would pay themselves that much in the early days when all the hard effort and money should be going into building the business, or especially when things are not going well. Your reward should be once it is up and running successfully surely?

I feel sorry for the employees, but not him given what I have read.

Just tells me that they are/were trying to sell something that few people want. If more did they would be millionaires.

You are much better at p&l and business plans than me Ben, but surely it's not a loss If you were to buy £500k of stock.

Depends how much you bought and how you depreciate it. But thats not the point, what I was trying to convey was that the sentiment in the article of ' They raised so much money how could they make a loss? ' is misplaced. Its hard to make a loss with £5 of share capital, no credit and not much else, as you have nothing to 'lose', however on an equity raise of £500k, its perfectly possible to make a loss of well over 500k if you're an idiot.

but surely it's not a loss If you were to buy £500k of stock.

No but it doesn't help when they have 2,000 Hoy-Vulpine tshirts in the warehouse they have bought that contractually they arent allowed to sell

I can't believe anyone running a start up business would pay themselves that much in the early days when all the hard effort and money should be going into building the business,

This is the nub of it, more so than the poor business sense - which most of us are probably blessed with.

I guess this is the downside of crowdfunding. I can't imagine a bank would have let him get off with that. It's a shame as crowdfunding does seem to sometimes really work

The whole thing comes across to me as if he was trying as build a brand rather than trying to build a business.

Bought out by Mango ...

Update on BikeBiz now.

[i]The financial details of this transaction were not revealed at the time, but it has now come to light that Vulpine’s £250,000-worth of stock was bought for £70,000.[/i]

[url= http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/vulpine-s-shareholders-to-lose-their-shirts-confirms-administrator/021498 ]http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/vulpine-s-shareholders-to-lose-their-shirts-confirms-administrator/021498[/url]

[edit] saw this after posting:

[i]Nine employees will get a maximum of £800 each for unpaid wages[/i]

Which I hope Nick Hussey makes up to what they were actually owed - he took enough out the business in the last year.

A bit of contrition from Hussey wouldn't go amiss. He doesn't seem to think he did anything wrong despite screwing with peoples lives while trying to get rich quick.

Can't believe Mango chucked £70k at it, good luck salvaging it.

Since that £250K is likely to be cost, then £70K looks a good deal without knowing the commitments & liabilities that Mango are taking on. Obviously not quite BHS for a £1, even though many want to draw parallels between Mr H & Philip Green.

I'm getting 2 or 3 emails a week imploring me to buy massively discounted Vulpine kit. Based on the performance of the Vulpine clothing that I have already I'm unlikely to ever buy any more.

absolute shit head of a bloke
not paid us in 6 months .delete if you wish

The whole thing comes across to me as if he was trying as build a brand rather than trying to build a business.

The Hiatts at Howies sold to Timberland after 11 years I think. Rapha have been allegedly ben talking to people about a sale after c13 years.

I'm getting 2 or 3 emails a week imploring me to buy massively discounted Vulpine kit. Based on the performance of the Vulpine clothing that I have already I'm unlikely to ever buy any more.

I've been happy with the stuff I've bought. It's not 'technical cycle kit', it's casual clothing with some features that make it much better on a bike. Katie just picked up a pair of jeans - good fit, stretch, high at back, low at front, deep pocket, diamond crotch. Likewise the polo shirt.

[quote=simons_nicolai-uk ] Katie just picked up a pair of jeans - good fit, stretch, high at back, low at front, deep pocket, diamond crotch.
Does the vajazzle not get uncomfy on a bike?

The latest twist

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/mango-bike-sold-redundancies-confirmed-as-brand-relocates-3/021911

So your company buys a bankrupt company, then your original company goes bankrupt due to debt, then you get to buy it all for a quid? Surely £80k of that £250k debt was used to buy Vulpine, so where did that 80K come from- someone had to loan them it, and would have looked at their finances and seen their existing debt?

You can tell I'm not in business and commerce! Fingers crossed their Gloucestershire-based employees come of it all okay.

£5k off my dad to buy HebTroCo trousers

Chuffing hell, I knew they were pricey but.... 😯

I met Nick once at an event in 2012 when he was starting up - some of the original jackets were nice, I tried one on and asked is he was offering any deals - nope. Walked away.

The latest twist

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/mango-bike-sold-redundancies-confirmed-as-brand-relocates-3/021911

So your company buys a bankrupt company, then your original company goes bankrupt due to debt, then you get to buy it all for a quid? Surely £80k of that £250k debt was used to buy Vulpine, so where did that 80K come from- someone had to loan them it, and would have looked at their finances and seen their existing debt?

You can tell I'm not in business and commerce! Fingers crossed their Gloucestershire-based employees come of it all okay.

I didn't read it quite like that. I'm assuming the original owner has bought it back for a quid but has also taken on the £250k debt.

Not enough info to be sure though.

More importantly, how do we tap up Brant for STW discount? 😉

I'm sure there were announcements just a couple of weeks ago at PHCX that Mango bikes were moving to Sheffield.

There is good money to be made in bankrupting your company and then buying it back.

I didn't read it quite like that. I'm assuming the original owner has bought it back for a quid but has also taken on the £250k debt.

Possibly a badly worded article combined with my lack of understanding of business, as it read to me that the co-founder was still a part-owner of the firm (along with the investor)? He co-found it, then took on an investor, it doesn't mention him stepping away from it? You're correct that it also doesn't mention Mango going bankrupt and it may well be he's taking the debt.

OMG I can't believe what I'm reading.... I ordered a bike on the 16th of September knowing absolutely nothing about this. I only found this thread by googleing mango bikes bankrupt thinking of the worst and it now might be true. I was wondering why my order hasn't updated for almost a month now, is my bike ever gonna be made now? What's happening at mango bikes? I have had zero contact with anybody there, I've emailed them and called but nothing. So annoyed at myself for not reading up on any of this before hand what a mistake!

Did you order on credit card?
If so, contact them.
If not, always use credit card for some of a purchase.

Well I paid using my debit card but they had the spite to charge me before I even got my bike or anything. I have tried to contact them everyday, I've sent multiple emails and have called them everyday but there is no way I can contact them. Unless you guys know some way I don't. Their customer service is non existent, and all I want to do is cancel my order and get my money back from this crap company. Mistakes have been made!

Call your bank - see if they can do a chargeback.

debit card

Visa debit is covered by the same protection as visa credit (by visa's decision I assume rather than legal but it's one of the "selling" points for visa debit). I assume MasterCard is the same to compete.

Is that really possible to ask for the money back? Surely mango bikes would have to agree to it before my bank takes it back from them or am I missing something here?

A quick search online, in particular on The Gazette and Companies House, shows no indication of Mango Bicycles Ltd being in liquidation (CVL or MVL). Searches do show two directors terminating their appointment at the company and Ben Harrison (founder of Mango) remains as the only active director.

So panicking about orders and using words such as bankruptcy would seem inappropriate at this moment in time.

As for Vulpine, Vulpine is a trading name for WILCHAP 564 LIMITED. Mango Bicycles Ltd did not purchase Vulpine from the liquidators, WILCHAP 564 LIMITED purchased Vulpine.

Is that really possible to ask for the money back? Surely mango bikes would have to agree to it before my bank takes it back from them or am I missing something here?

Yes - contact your bank and tell them that you bought something, and after a lack of contact nothing has been forthcoming, and you would like to raise a chargeback. It will then be down to Mango to prove (within a short period of time) you got what you bought/the lead time was well communicated. Assuming neither of these are true you'll get your money back.

If what chipsngravy posted is correct, then I'd waste no time getting that chargeback initiated.

Contact Mango first. There's any number of things that could have gone wrong but at least give them a chance before the financial protection route

Mango Bikes social media accounts have not been active since September 25th.

Psst...

I have had zero contact with anybody there, I've emailed them and called but nothing.

New updates guys...
Gets better and better. I guess it’s time to make that claim to the bank now.. or what should I do?[url= http://http://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/business/mango-bikes-rides-wheeled-administration-667236 ]null

What are you playing at not having done it already? Just put the chargeback in.

You haven't called your card co/bank yet?!

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/mango-ceases-trading-thanks-to-brexit-seeks-buyer/022018