DH1 hosted by Rocky Roads.
Honestly, if DH and Enduro had nothing to do with the UCI going forward I reckon that would be the best thing that could happen for both disciplines.
Its a shame that XC gets left out here. The courses (and filming thereof), riders and skills in recent years are incredible.
With XC racer's bikes, and the recent "downcountry" trend rapidly converging, its getting closer to becoming the event that is most akin to normal people's riding.
I've got my own opinions on how short track needs altering, but otherwise, its an excellent series, and the double header weekends with the DH make for a lovely weekend of viewing. But they have further motivation for avoiding upsetting the UCI, both in qualifying for the olympics, and the crossover of athletes to road and cross racing.
You do know that Red Bull own not one, but two, F1 teams plus an F1 circuit, don’t you? And logistics of F1 are an order of magnitude larger than anything in the cycling/Xtreme sports world….
I do. But they still dont have to organise the event, find the tracks or space for the pits, agree terms with the teams so the riders actually turn up. They just have to move their own stuff around and get allocated space by the F1 and turn up. They dont have to do all the negotiation around which track, where is it, where to put the pits how to make the race commercially viable, is it safe etc etc. All of these things become
A lot of the organising of logistics could easily be passed onto each venue.
Red Bull have plenty of experience in organising events, or getting others to organise the event for them. They do Hardline, Rampage, Urban DH series and other smaller MTB events such as Foxhunt. They have experience in creating an MTB event.
If they offer an existing series the same money and media coverage as they do with World Cups, then there is even less for them to have to sit down and plan.
Plus they will get more freedom once away from the UCI, they could show more runs, offer more prize money to riders and a load of other things to make a RBDH series ohh so tempting to the established racers.
From a general perspective - what does the UCI offer downhill riders that AN Other body couldn't?
I'm not sure I entirely buy into the thought that riders wouldn't leave the UCI as they would lose access to the worlds - isn't that just the UCI ranked world champion because they won a race or series deemed to be the world championship hosted by the UCI?
If it was another body, what would stop them offering a Worlds Best or Global Championship labelled race or series, offering a slightly different shirt to the winners.
I realise the UCI has ties all over cycling disciplines, but of there is no rush or desire to get DH racing into the Olympics, does it matter that much if all the riders jump ship to a new governing body and adopt a new champion. The worlds best are generally only recognized in the fringes of their own sports anyway, so a jersey with rings or squares on it to signify the best doesn't really matter.
Of course, the problem will likely be getting enough people to jump ship. There will no doubt be a few at least that stay with the UCI as it will improve their chances of winning, even if it is a diluted field.
I'm surprised nobody has posted a link to their audition youtube reel yet. (They may have, I've not read it all)
GCN is streaming thd xco European championships on the 19th. Should give an insight into their plans for the commentary team.
If its that Marty 'welcome aboard' cx/women's road race commentator then its going to kill it for me. Can't watch either now as his clueless babble is so irritating.
Yeah, he commentates on 'cross and i'm amazed that all the top riders coincidentally have 'signature power'.
Nothing personal against him, but MTB is a different vibe to Road/CX, and needs MTB experts commentating on it. I'd be annoyed if they used a current GCN commentator for MTB coverage.
Saying that, last year in Serbia at the MTB Euros, it was Matt Stephens, and Neil Donoghue, and to be honest, Neil wasn't exactly brilliant - but then he's a Downhill expert, not XC.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread GCN covered the the Swiss MTB Cup a few years back and Marty was calling that so we have to assume he will be covering the World Cup XC MTB in future as well on Discovery/GCN/Eurosport unless they can bring someone else in like Dan Jarvis or may be Matt Payne. Matt Stephens has also called MTB events on Eurosport in the past.
Just to say, Discovery own Eurosport so it could well be put on there rather which makes more sense than the Discovery Channel.
Being on Eurosport would also mean much bigger audience reach so it COULD be good in the long term, we'll have to see.
If you watch the Eurosport adverts you'll see some DH has slipped into them.
However, there's no way they're going to show DH live on 1 or 2 when say Rolland Garros, tdf or vuelta etc are on at same time.
Did anybody else notice the push on MTB world champs at the end of the Vuelta coverage this evening. Showed a few races and had the voice over of Rob and Bart as the main overlay.
Seems a bit odd to use their commentary to such a prominent effect if they are not part of the package.
Maybe Rob is staying with Red Bull, just doing some contract work for Discovery as well !
I do wonder if the UCI big wigs are concerned that they have just sold to a company that has all the signs of going bankrupt/about to be bought by Disney.
UCI only cares that they are payed.
Honestly, if DH and Enduro had nothing to do with the UCI going forward I reckon that would be the best thing that could happen for both disciplines.
in many respects I agree
From a general perspective – what does the UCI offer downhill riders that AN Other body couldn’t?
Olympic access as you rightly say. Look at freestyle BMX, absolutely nothing to do with UCI, but because its a cycling sport had to come under UCI to join the Olympics.
In many respects if DH is not interested in going into the Olympics I think it should just **** the UCI off. There is a BMX brand called Bicycle Union keep "BMX in the hands of BMXers", I kind of think mtb could do some of this attitude. Keep MTB in the hands of the MTBrs. MTB is inherently more corporate than skating or BMX but I do wonder if it needs to have its own version of becoming more rider owned / ran. The corporates can still gain good advertising revenue but the events could do without those UCI ****s.
In many respects if DH is not interested in going into the Olympics I think it should just **** the UCI off.
The riders seem to very much like their rainbow jerseys though.
If another jersey represented the top of DH racing why wouldn't they like that?
The riders seem to very much like their rainbow jerseys though.
Because we couldn't have another jersey of similar significance?
Sure, I'm not saying they don't have other options, of course they do, I'm just pointing out the obvious excitement and prestige in which they all seem hold the Rainbow Stripes.
Sure, I’m not saying they don’t have other options, of course they do, I’m just pointing out the obvious excitement and prestige in which they all seem hold the Rainbow Stripes.
I'd hazard a guess that it's not so much the jersey itself* and more what it represents. I don't believe what it represents is provided by its association with the UCI.
I don’t believe what it represents is provided by its association with the UCI.
Not directly, but it is obliquely. The rainbow jersey is the nearest DH will get to parity with Olympic athletes like track and road racing, XCO, and BMX. You could line up all the rainbow jersey wearers for the year, and there'd be a DH'er in there. I think that's petty appealing to a group of folks who train as hard as their Olympian cycling colleagues. It's recognition of their work.
Sure, they could have their own world champs, and over time, it may even carry some prestige in the sport, but without looking d'you know who won the IXS cup in 2021, or who's the top of the leaderboard? Nope, me neither.
Not directly, but it is obliquely. The rainbow jersey is the nearest DH will get to parity with Olympic athletes like track and road racing, XCO, and BMX. You could line up all the rainbow jersey wearers for the year, and there’d be a DH’er in there. I think that’s petty appealing to a group of folks who train as hard as their Olympian cycling colleagues. It’s recognition of their work.
I think that's a bit of a stretch and you're projecting some of your own feelings onto others, tbh.
The single biggest prize in cycling is still the Yellow Jersey. Ask virtually any cyclist in any discipline whether the Rainbow Jersey or the Yellow Jersey is the bigger prize and I think you'd get the same answer. But then I might be projecting my own bias onto others as well.
Sure, they could have their own world champs, and over time, it may even carry some prestige in the sport, but without looking d’you know who won the IXS cup in 2021, or who’s the top of the leaderboard? Nope, me neither.
True, I can't tell you anything about the IXS. However, if it were possible to watch it I'm sure I would have a better idea what's going on. It's not the late 90s anymore and I can't get excited about waiting for the latest copy of Dirt to land on my doormat so I can find out the results of a race that happened 2 months before.
And WC DH will go the same way if Discovery WB decide to pull the plug on coverage (the Batgirl effect) and we're reduced to reading write-ups on Pinkbike to find out what happened.
Especially if someone decides to step up and show the IXS live. If that happens I doubt anyone would give a shit who won the Rainbow Jersey.
. Ask virtually any cyclist in any discipline
http://www.cyclingquotes.com/news/kwiatkowski_the_rainbow_jersey_changed_my_life/
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/julian-alaphilippe-its-not-easy-to-win-wearing-the-rainbow-jersey/
Think the rainbow jersey's been going for what? Nearly hundred years now? I think even roadies hold it in some regard, don't they? I agree about the TDF, and I'm sure young cyclists dream of yellow, but having heard what cyclist have said over the years about the world champs, I'm not sure I'm guilty of projecting. Most seem to give it value.
Think the rainbow jersey’s been going for what? Nearly hundred years now? I think even roadies hold it in some regard, don’t they? I agree about the TDF, and I’m sure young cyclists dream of yellow, but having heard what cyclist have said over the years about the world champs, I’m not sure I’m guilty of projecting. Most seem to give it value.
I didn't say they use it as a dishrag 😉
Pretty much any win has value. The Rainbow Jersey is probably the second or third most valuable prize in cycling. The Yellow is the biggest prize and probably Olympic gold is also ahead of it. Some might argue that a win in the Giro or Vuelta is more valuable but I'm not sure.
My point is it's not magic. It simply represents the highest level of annual competition. If the best riders in the world weren't competing in the World Championships it would have no meaning. Sure, it would still be a win and therefore not without value but if the best riders in the world aren't taking part would anyone care if you wore the Rainbow Jersey?
I don't know the answer to that but if Discovery WB cock everything up we might get the chance to find out.
Sure, it would still be a win and therefore not without value but if the best riders in the world aren’t taking part would anyone care if you wore the Rainbow Jersey?
And we're back to the IXS Cup aren't we? If Max Hartenstern wins (I looked it up) does anyone care? And the reason they don't care is that it's not the World Cup and it's not the World Champs. The UCI - like it or not, lends every cycling sport it supports a level of international recognition that no-one wants to loose - especially not the riders and teams and sponsors
Any break away just becomes another IXS, the best riders could be there (I personally doubt they'd go), doesn't matter, the telly and sponsors won't be.
I’d watch the IXS as avidly as I watch the WC events…if it was live streamed by someone (cough - Red Bull - cough)…make it accessible and if Discovery play silly buggers with the World Cups you’ve got a ready made series that could step up to a World Cup/World champs level quite easily - it’s about the riders, I wouldn’t watch the WC races any more if Amaury, Bruni, Vergier, Minaar, Hart, Greenland, Finn etc jumped ship to another organisation.
In fact the race that gets me most excited each year is Red Bull hardline and it’s not part of the WC circuit and isn’t UCI affiliated in any way.
Exactly, if the World Cup stops getting the easily accessible live coverage as it currently does, and another series stepped in to get what the World Cup got in this year (which, IMO, has been some of the best coverage from Red Bull so far, brilliant graphics, commentary as good as ever, etc), would people make the switch to this non-WC series.
And say it does get the better coverage, good live coverage will also get the other media sites mentioning it more, would sponsors want their top riders to be in the series for the better exposure? Say most of the well known riders moved over to this series, I imagine the viewers will follow.
Untied from the UCI red tape might also be a big bonus.
The UCI – like it or not, lends every cycling sport it supports a level of international recognition that no-one wants to loose – especially not the riders and teams and sponsors
No, Amaury Pierron, Camille Balanche, Finn Iles, Valentina Höll, Loris Vergier, Myriam Nicole, Laurie Greenland and all the other top riders are what makes the WC the pinnacle. It has nothing to do with the UCI.
If the current top 30 men and top 15 women decamped to IXS then the IXS would be the pinnacle of downhill racing no matter who was wearing the Rainbow Jersey.
The riders are finally starting to realise that there actually aren't that many people out there who can do what they do and what they can do is easier to sell than most sports.
@nickc I think you think a lot more of the UCI than most DH racers. There is certainly some history and thus some attachment to the events they run but make no bones about it, the riders are, on the whole, very much under paid and anything which can increase that position either by better promotion or whatever will sway them. I very much doubt they give a monkey's if they get the rainbow stripes - so long as it's a step change and not a side show.
i doubt that Redbull have the stomach for it however and we'd need someone independent to step in and take it on. Redbull sell drinks and their own (functionally fairly crap) TV channel/app, everything else is built to support that or a vanity project/willy waving.
In some ways taking RB out of the equation is a good thing as it opens the sport up to competing sponsors. Having Redbull as sponsor/promotor is kind of a blocker to widening the appeal in terms of bringing more money into the sport.
It has nothing to do with the UCI.
Do you think that Rob Roskopp or Max Commencal would spend as much as they do now on a new breakaway series? Do you think FOX or SRAM and Shimano would? They are there because the whole thing is underpinned by the UCI. Just the two component manufacturer alone must sink millions into UCI affiliated bike disciplines from DH to local winter CX series watched by 2 Belgians and a dog. What do you think the contracts for the riders would be like without the UCI stipulating things like maternity and injury leave? Who would do the drug testing? who would insist on the sorts of acute medical coverage that the UCI do now?
If the current top 30 men and top 15 women decamped to IXS then the IXS would be the pinnacle of downhill racing
Do you think the riders would jump ship away from their teams to race another series that wasn't supported by the folks that pay their wages? Because that's what would happen. I mean the IXS Cup's current Title Sponsor is a website. I like Vital MTB as much as the next man, I doubt it could afford to pay them though.
@nickc I think you think a lot more of the UCI than most DH racers.
Oh I imagine all the riders have some choice things to say about any governing body without a doubt. I don't know any athletes that don't think their governing body isn't a total waste of space. But the UCI is world cycling; that's the start middle and finish of the debate. You want your series to be part of that, or do you want it to be nothing? Those are your choices.
I very much doubt they give a monkey’s if they get the rainbow stripes
I think they care very much about that jersey. Without the Olympics, this is it for most of them. Their one chance of recognition. win this and you get to wear the stripes forever. One day event, anything can happen. Look at all the injured riders that have done everything they can to make sure they make it, In an interview Luca Shaw wasn't bothered by missing two rounds, but he specifically wanted to be at the Worlds, Camille Balanche broke her collarbone just a few weeks ago, she's there, Tahnee Seagrave isn't even riding and she's got a special chromed bike all over the press.
There's just not gonna be a credible rival series of the type some of you are fantasising about.
The UCI WC series will continue, there'll probably be an acceptable new commentator and some of us may even put our hands in our pockets to pay to watch races.
Red Bull are parasites on the sport anyway.
What do you think the contracts for the riders would be like without the UCI stipulating things like maternity and injury leave? Who would do the drug testing? who would insist on the sorts of acute medical coverage that the UCI do now?
All things that the rider's union has been formed to address. Suggests to me that the riders themselves would do a better job negotiating these things than the UCI.
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea the UCI gives a shit about DH or it's riders. The UCI's involvement in DH extends to drug testing (has drug abuse ever been a problem in DH), collecting vast amounts of money from venues for the privilege of being associated with the UCI, and most recently selling the broadcast rights to an organisation who gave nobody any information about next year until 2 weeks ago and may or may not decide to pull the plug at pretty much any moment.
Do you think the riders would jump ship away from their teams to race another series that wasn’t supported by the folks that pay their wages?
If it wasn't going to be broadcast why would any manufacturer bother with any involvement. Oh yeah, I'm sure that they would get a write up in pinkbike but I think you'll find that if there's no coverage interest in DH is going to disappear very quickly.
There is a demand for DH racing so whoever broadcasts races, that is who manufacturers and riders are going to flock to.
Look at all the injured riders that have done everything they can to make sure they make it, In an interview Luca Shaw wasn’t bothered by missing two rounds, but he specifically wanted to be at the Worlds, Camille Balanche broke her collarbone just a few weeks ago, she’s there, Tahnee Seagrave isn’t even riding and she’s got a special chromed bike all over the press.
Yeah, once your overall chances are gone then the World Champs are the only chance you have to salvage anything for the year. It's not the magic of the UCI backed Rainbow Stripes.
There’s just not gonna be a credible rival series of the type some of you are fantasising about.
The UCI WC series will continue, there’ll probably be an acceptable new commentator and some of us may even put our hands in our pockets to pay to watch races.
Unless Discovery decides to do a Batgirl and pull the plug on the whole thing.
@speeder, it was a film that got cancelled after poor screening. It was canned by Warner Bros, and that's owned by Discovery. Their new CEO id looking at cancelling a whole bunch of stuff as they have debt issues
Batgirl was apparently a pile of toss.
The DH WC series is very good.
Sounds like he's trying to justify his massive compensation package to me ($246.6 million in 2021).
Don't think MTB coverage is going to get much of a look in if they're cancelling 100s of million dollar movies because they're a bit sub standard. Will be seen a distraction and collateral damage
Batgirl was apparently a pile of toss.
The DH WC series is very good.
'Apparently' is doing a lot of the heavy lifting there. It wouldn't surprise me if it was but being a pile of toss doesn't seem to have been an issue for WB releasing other terrible DC movies.
Anyway, we'll likely never know. There was a single audience screening at which point the decision was taken to can it which just seems insane to me for so many reasons, not least of which is the terrible optics.
What we have learned from this is that WB Discovery can and will ditch anything, whether it's good or not and regardless of optics. The UCI won't give a shit because it's downhill and presumably they've already gotten the money for it.
So yes, a race calendar has been released but forgive me for not assuming that means that all our worries are over.
What we have learned from this is that WB Discovery can and will ditch anything
The series is being broadcast by Discovery Sports Europe and ESO Sports. Not Warner Bros, they're a division of the parent co and makes money broadcasting all the cycling stuff on Eurosport. There's no reason to suppose the Warner Bros will want to kill one of their few money generating sectors. It makes zero sense.
There’s no reason to suppose the Warner Bros will want to kill one of their few money generating sectors. It makes zero sense.
Yes, I can tell by the detailed plans for next year we have received that DH coverage is a high priority for them and the interests of teams, riders, and fans are at the heart of every decision they take.
But yeah, who knows. Maybe it'll all work out.
I've just watched the men's xcc on gcn+. Don't know who the commentator was - couldn't see or hear that he let us know. He was better than I expected. Very little cliché or repetition which irks me with some Eurosport commentators. No wittering on reading out names. But the commentary as a whole was dreadful because they only had one person. You surely need a bit of chat between between two commentators for this to work? I can't believe this would be their plan for the world cups. But if so why not trial what you're going to do next year this weekend?
The Commentator on GCN for the mens and womens XCC was Was Ric Mcglaughlin the EWS presenter https://www.mtb-tribe.com/164-host-of-the-enduro-world-series-super-stars-ric-mclaughlin/
He worked on Red Bull a few years back as well.
Thanks dirkdestijl. Reading back I realise I was pretty rude about him. His commentary was great. My issue was just with the single-person format.
Rick McLaughlin and Reece Wilson commentating on DH for GCN for World Champs and they were pretty good compared to Warner/Hannah on Red Bull if not better/more informative (watched half coverage under different commentary teams)
Can we speculate that Reece Wilson will retire at the end of the season from World Cups and take a lucratively paid job as Co Commentator with GCN/Eurosport? I think it's a given that Rick will be in the main commentators seat next year.
Watching worlds at the minute and regardless of who takes over I'll miss Robs enthusiasm
Reece was good on Hardline commentary duties too - he’ll not retire yet, watched an interesting YouTube documentary (think it was called Flying Scotsman) on how he came back from that Les Gets crash to win a WC…seems as committed a racer as any I’ve seen over the years.
I tried the gcn+ commentary but found it a little bit boring as it doesn't have the enthusiasm of Rob warner, maybe I'll get used to it. I always felt Rob is like a Murray walker was for F1 they both bring excitement to the event.
How many people will be paying £6.99 a month or £40 a year for GCN+ will be interesting
