[Closed] Road discs, do we wait a while?

I have bb5s on my cross bike, and for weight and asthetics I wouldn't get them on my road bike.

until we have genuine lightweight hydro road discs I wouldn't buy a bike with them.

Dunno, but do you think Winstanleys really mean availability 2-7 days on these Shimano CX discs?

[url= http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/51912/Shimano_Ultegra_BRCX75_Disc_Brake_Caliper ]Winstanleys CX75[/url]

Might take a punt on them rather than BB7 for next build.

I don't see it at the very top end any time soon,if ever (within reason-digital laser disc brakes aside).

. One of the reasons to buy a good carbon frame is that they are tuned as they are built. Offering the rider stiffness and comfort in the right places and right quantities.
If changes are being made to accommodate discs will we lose ride quality?

The same question applies to wheels. Will low spokes cope?

You believe that marketing guff?

Look at mtb frames - did the ride change when they all got discs? As for wheels, don't forget that pedalling and braking already put stress on them, and no one's going to release products that aren't tested into the litigious US market.

MLC Madison are listing them on their B2B site, don't know about stock tho.

Ive used some BR M415 and they have a good feel to them, but they were bulky 230g:
[img] [/img]

I went back to BB7s and they come in at 160g
[img] [/img]

The CX75 will alledgedly be "156g"

I just bought a new road bike this year
By the time I want another one [in 3 or 4 years] it'll be wall to wall electronic shifting, disc braked bikes.
You'll can really feel the momentum building now and it'll just rush in to every line up in the next months

That's not guff at all. A good frame feels different even when an oaf like me is racing it.
And I'm sure the disc frames will be strong enough, no questions about it.

I can't wait to see what comes out next year.

Surly the will be some discs in the tour this year? I hope to see at least 1 team running them.

I fail to see the problem current brakes have that disks will improve.

Seems an awful faff to me.

Surly to have a bike in the Tdf?..I do hope so.

[img] http://surlybikes.com/uploads/bikes/disctrucker.jp g" target="_blank">http://surlybikes.com/uploads/bikes/disctrucker.jp g"/> &sa=X&ei=mrFgUOmeMoHN0QWkg4GQDg&ved=0CAoQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNGrJir_1k-OHVQjJtS-j3VQYnyiBQ[/img]

Are we still doing this? Disc brakes are, apparently, ok for MTBs, Cross, Commuters and Tourers and yet they are somehow "unproven" when applied to "road" bikes.....

IIRC the UCI hasn't sanctioned discs for road yet? So no teams doing discs in the near future at least.

This isn't about the qualities of disc brakes. It's about the marriage of strength required to run discs and the performance requirements of a top end racing frame.

I couldn't say for certain, but I bet more goes into the design on the rear end on a pro road race machine to get as much out of the riders input, than goes into a MTB frame.

Personally I still feel almost thankful for the discs on my MTB, but I've never felt the need for more braking on my race bikes. In the wet on the hardest of descents I worry more about my tyres keeping me upright.

Surly the will be some discs in the tour this year? I hope to see at least 1 team running them.

Not seen that many in the cross races this season yet. And what with roadies and their favorite wheels.

MLC Madison are listing them on their B2B site, don't know about stock tho.

Madison are showing 12th Oct as expected delivery

That Shimano brake looks interesting. I've been using BB7s for a long time on the work bike, but the materials tend to corrode easily in winter, so I would like to see how the Shimano construction and performance compares.

As others have pointed out, one of the current issues for road racing applications will be race service. Would you be able to guarantee the alignment when swapping discs, or adjust them quickly enough? Neutral service also becomes trickier with more permutations of wheel type and component manufacturer. You need to beat rim brakes on weight as well, because performance is not currently a limiter.

oldgit - Member
That's not guff at all. A good frame feels different even when an oaf like me is racing it.

I don't disagree - but you imply carbon frames are made like a bespoke suit. All high end frames have butting/hydroforming etc claimed to tailor the ride. In any event your own argument makes discs easy to add to a carbon frame without affecting the ride much (and a bit of strengthening around the LH dropout will have **** all effect on ride quality).

I'm buying this canyon as soon as it becomes available.. (2014??)

http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/09/12/canyon-teases-disc-brake-road-bike-plus-new-29er-mountain-bikes-more/

Hmmm. Then there's the wheel issue. I don't think you can run radial spokes can you? Plus the braking surface of a rim is an integral part of the wheels structure, so I guess you could lose the surface but you'd need to retain the strength.
Then there's the heat issue, long long drags would be a killer wouldn't they.

And back to the frames. Could you just slap disc calipers on the current crop? probably not. So while I like the idea it seems a lot of changes would have to be made to kit that doesn't need improving just to take discs.

Wheels - they managed on mtbs OK I think?

dragging - see other threads, I CBA going through that again.

Hilarious luddittes...

No don't wait, do it now.

Fugly and pointless.

Still there are a lot of bikes around that fit that category.

Was discussing this with a roadie mate at the weekend - think Colnago have a disc equipped road bike on show at the moment, so they may be available in a year or two to purchase at the top end BUT only if the UCI permit them on pro bikes will they appear on your "average" £1-£1.5 sportive bike that us MAMILs like to go for

Discs currently aren't allowed by the UCI in road racing, people like to ride what the pro riders ride so until the UCI change their position I can't see discs becoming the de facto standard on road bikes.

From what I understand the main concern is nothing to do with performance but how safe they are in closely packed peletons where crashes with large numbers of riders are pretty frequent.

I'm surprised the bike companies have been so slow on this. Plenty have disc CX frames, so the frame tech is there , but very few have road frames ready. Which is all the more surprising given the enormous number of std. carbon road frames out there that all look the same. Have they not heard of a USP...

Volagi - available but with a few snags
Colnago - on show, and nice, but silly prices and lecky only!
Canyon - proto only
Time - proto only

If Boardman could get his finger out and get a disc roadie to market, based on the AiR or SLR frame, they'd have a proper rush on their hands IMO.

Discs would I use them now?
On the crosser yes. I'm good with canti's but they're still a faff.
On the training bikes yes. Too many winter days with cold hands and pads that wear in a day and usually at the top of the worst descents.
On the race bike, for my racing, no.

Is there real demand for this? Absolutely needed on MTB where you need the power and feel of discs, and rims get horribly covered in cack. On a road race bike though... I really can't see the need. I'll probably eat my words in a few years time when I get to try it.

I'm surprised the bike companies have been so slow on this. Plenty have disc CX frames, so the frame tech is there

It's not though. The CX frames are beefy and just carbon doing a job. Top flight race frames are designed, engineered to get the best out of a racers input and be comfortable as well. They talk about the direction of the weave and it's lay up. Well now we are asking the frame builders to keep all that, but at the same time build in the ability to handle the stresses of discs.

midlifecrashes - Member

Dunno, but do you think Winstanleys really mean availability 2-7 days on these Shimano CX discs?

It's Winstanleys so... Might be 2-7 days, might be 2 years.

Back to the Future.

Does anyone have time machine so we can just replay all the arguments about disks on motorbikes?

druid I'm not saying they ain't great stoppers.
The thing with race bikes is that they have been getting lighter and lighter over the years with forward momentum being the only thing that matters. So you have these minimalistic machines that suddenly now need to cope with discs.
I'm not into motorbikes, but I'd imagine you could add and subtract weight far easier, add a strut here remove a pipe there? There just doesn't seem to be anywhere left on a race bike to do this.

The big benefit of discs on a road bike is little to do with braking performance but it's benefits in wheel and rim design if the rims don't have the constraint of needing a braking surface.

It's already possible to buy/build a bike to come in below the UCI minimum weight. If any beefing up is required there is scope to do so.

The big benefit of discs on a road bike is little to do with braking performance but it's benefits in wheel and rim design if the rims don't have the constraint of needing a braking surface.

Whilst they wont need a braking surface they'll still need to be reinforced or they'd be too weak. It still needs to be strong. You could probably go far crazier designing a wheel that didn't have to incorporate a disc and disc hub. Less and lighter spokes for a start.

I've been using them on my Kinesis Tripster for ages and they've been great, especially on days like today when there was a complete downpour. For pure racing though, well, you can't even enter as they're still banned so forget it!

I did worry they might not be up to long alpine descents with the small 160mm rotors, but I went to the alps a few weeks ago and they were fine with no fade or anything. Here's some pics from the top...

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

it will happen within the next few years - the UCI will watch what happens with 'cross bikes, then will introduce them for TT bikes (where you don't change a wheel, you swap bikes for the protour) and then after a few years the parts will be on the shelf. They just need to agree on a standard rotor size and a bit of lateral thinking about the best way for a quick change

As I understand it, it's not that the UCI are against, it's simply that no-one has put any forward for approval yet. And no-one will until they got something really good. We haven't seen anything really good yet, but it's surely not far away.

oldgit - Member
The CX frames are beefy and just carbon doing a job. Top flight race frames are designed, engineered to get the best out of a racers input and be comfortable as well. They talk about the direction of the weave and it's lay up. Well now we are asking the frame builders to keep all that, but at the same time build in the ability to handle the stresses of discs.

Do you know the difference in weight between top road, cx and mtb frames?

Super Six = 800gm...Scott HT = 1kg?

The differences are not as big as you think.

For those calling us road disc sceptics luddites, maybe you can explain to me exactly what the big advantage is? I get the advantage of discs on MTB and CX bikes (I'd not get a CX bike with cantis if buying now), but the reasons they're a good idea for them don't really apply in the same way for road race bikes.

no one's going to release products that aren't tested into the litigious US market.

Ah, that's why there are so many lethal product failures akin to bike wheels collapsing at high speeds?

cynic-al - Member

Ah, that's why there are so many lethal product failures akin to bike wheels collapsing at high speeds?

Ford Pinto... Ford famously did the cost-benefit analysis and decided it was cheaper to have the cars burst into flames and pay out on lawsuits, than it was to fix the car ($11 per car!)

40 years ago?