[Closed] Riding on Low (zero) carb diet

Tom my mail is hall-s at sky dot com drop me a message about a ride in the Peak.

will do!
The same goes for anyone from the Leciester area who wants to take me to cannock or somewhere else good!

[i]I don't think that carbs are evil or anything but when I think of what my diet used to be like it's a bit scary. I wouldn't go as far as the Paleo theory that we're not designed to eat them but I don't think we were designed to eat the kind of junk food that gets pushed at us now full of additives and bulking agents and gums and allsorts. The grains we eat now are not what our grandparents would have eaten. [/i]

LMP.
Firstly, I'm sorry to learn that you have / are suffering coeliac disease and Chrohns.

I agree, carbs aren't evil, but it would seem that people are consuming too many an gaining weight.
[b]Paleolithic woman/man had some carbs in their diet.[/b]
Esp, as iDave points out, during that one month a year when they happened to discover a tree or bush laden with fruit.

Our paleolithic ancestors had a sweet tooth too, and would gorge themselves on a sweeter fruit, from a well laden tree or bush, should they have found one.

BUT !, that would be eating in season, for a short period of time.
Not like today when you can buy fruit in Tesco in December...

I agree with you.
For me, Grains are out.
Its perhaps too much to go into here, but there are so many facets to the story of how grains became so entrenched into our diets.

i am using the primal plan for a lot of my menus/recipes now.
i am not eating too many beans to be honest, they are the only part of the idiet i cant get on with.
but i am not doing a lot of exercise, so maybe i am lucky i dont need to many carbs.

Is someone able to answer how glycogen stores are replenished on a low carb diet?
Is it merely a matter of our metabolism converting other nutrients into the required carbs?

Also, is lactose free milk or soya milk acceptable (in tea for example)on the iDave?

I was kindly sent a link to info on the iDave diet and im very keen to give it a go. Is there any more web based info on the science behind the diet and how the 'fill your boots' day affects the outcome?

and im prepared to be shot down here, but do Heinz baked beans count as a legume/valid bean?.. far too much sugar I presume?

If no good, how about the diabetic version?

Didn't the average caveman die in their early 20's so isn't all this comparison to their diet a bit bollox?

And Nick asked me a question back some pages, to be fair, I'm not seeing any particular weight loss with my training program, but then again my aim is not to loose weight but to get faster which is how I'm measuring progress, and I don't have much weight to loose (maybe a couple of beer pounds...)

[i]think you have - the primal blueprint is high protein and low carb. Mark advises you to avoid legumes in particular, whereas iDave advises you to eat a lot of legumes to get your (slow) carbs.[/i]

With respect, iDave diet advocates the consumption of lean meat while consuming lower GI foods.
So I see quite a lot of similarity between the two.

As Ton points out, if anything, the glaring difference between MDA and the iDave diet is fruit.

Mark allows a fair degree of [i]lee way[/i] in his food choices
As would be consistent with the hunter gatherer that paleolithic man was.

But I can't forget Dr Lustig's presentation wrt to Fructose, the fruit sugar.

[i]i am using the primal plan for a lot of my menus/recipes now.[/i]

Theres no ignoring the fact that the MDA site has a lot of recipe suggestions there.
A topic that has generated threads on STW, with people asking about iDave diet compliant recipes.
I'd suggest selecting the more iDave diet compliant reciepes, from those listed on MDA.

[i]i am not eating too many beans to be honest, they are the only part of the idiet i cant get on with.
[/i]

I'm the same. I just couldn't do the beans.
But I found a useful tip on MDA...
" [i][b]Lots of plants and animals[/b][/i] "

That one line ^^^ complies with the iDave diet and MDA.
[b] WIN ?[/b]

[i]but i am not doing a lot of exercise, so maybe i am lucky i dont need to many carbs[/i]

Its just my own mission, but I have sought to find a way to control my body weight, without relying on exercise to trim-off those excess pounds of lard.
Don't get me wrong, I like to cycle.
But I ride, for the ride.
Not to lose an inch off the midrift.

FWIW, Ton, I think you're doing a great job.
It will be trial and error, perhaps, for a while.
But iDave will no doubt help out when he can.

Keep up the good work.

Is someone able to answer how glycogen stores are replenished on a low carb diet?
Is it merely a matter of our metabolism converting other nutrients into the required carbs?

I won't pretend that I understand the chemistry but :

The body can convert glycerol to glucose but it prefers to use amino acids for gluconeogenesis.

"Oxidation of fatty acids yields enormous amounts of energy on a molar basis, however, the carbons of the fatty acids cannot be utilized for net synthesis of glucose. The two carbon unit of acetyl-CoA derived from b-oxidation of fatty acids can be incorporated into the TCA cycle, however, during the TCA cycle two carbons are lost as CO2. Thus, explaining why fatty acids do not undergo net conversion to carbohydrate.

The glycerol backbone of lipids can be used for gluconeogenesis. This requires phosphorylation to glycerol-3-phosphate by glycerol kinase and dehydrogenation to dihydroxyacetone phosphate (DHAP) by glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate dehydrogenase(G3PDH). The G3PDH reaction is the same as that used in the transport of cytosolic reducing equivalents into the mitochondrion for use in oxidative phosphorylation. This transport pathway is called the glycerol-phosphate shuttle. The glycerol backbone of adipose tissue stored triacylgycerols is ensured of being used as a gluconeogenic substrate since adipose cells lack glycerol kinase. In fact adipocytes require a basal level of glycolysis in order to provide them with DHAP as an intermediate in the synthesis of triacyglycerols."

http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking...eogenesis.html
http://themedicalbiochemistrypage.org/glycogen.php

Yes basically, your body can synthesise fat from carbs & synthesise glycogen from fat (and protein?) I think is how it goes, I am definitely not a biochemist, perhaps one will pop up and explain it in simple terms - I don't think it can be explained in simple terms though.

Totally inspired by some of the ideas offered on this thread.
I think im set on my way to a much lower carb life, and my choice of cooking oils is now set.
I'm seeing carbs now as a suppliment to an active lifestyle, used wisely for recovery.

And frankly, iDave seems the answer to my prayers. 1 day of whatever I want to eat? Splendid.

SJ78.

Good luck.

I've enjoyed you're thread.

Thanks to iDave, Tom, IBL, et al.
😀

DT78 - Member
Didn't the average caveman die in their early 20's so isn't all this comparison to their diet a bit bollox?

Posted 13 hours ago #

They also lived in caves or outside and had various forms of predators after them a lot of the time. We don't really have this nowadays, unless you live in Liverpool of course.
They also didn't have access to the medical care that we (mostly) enjoy.

Solo - Member
Also, I've taken to frying in butter after learning that heating EVO to high, destroys its omega 3 content.

Seeing as I do not measure or monitor the temperature of the oil I'm frying with.

I've just switched over to butter.

I tried coconut oil once, and had a mild reaction.
So looks like I can't use coconut oil.

Regarding butter, not sure if it's been covered or not and i'm not reading back, but you want to go for proper grassfed butter, something like Kerrygold. To make it even better again, clarify it to get rid of the dairy elements an dyou are left with the most amazing tasting, golden nectar of pure fat.

I think if the average cavemen made it into adulthood, then they stood a fair chance of living to old age. Like any era until medical science actually started to have a big effect, the infant mortality rates massively skewed the average life expectancy figures.

I kinda ignored the caveman mortality comment.

I didn't and don't want this thread [i]over heating[/i]...
😉

For me, this has been a great thread, thanks to iDave, Tom and IBL as well as others.

For the record, when people first encounter the principals of the paleolithic diet in whatever form its been presented to them.
They often, rightly, raise this question.

[i]" If cavemen were so healthy on their diet, how come they never reached 30yrs of age ? "[/i]

My, lazy answer is that, lots of people follow a paleo style diet today and they seem happy enough.

I see similarities between the iDave diet and a diet set along paleo diet lines and I guess theres no harm in experimenting.

😀

Staralfur.

Thanks for that.

At the moment I'm happy frying with the butter.
But I note that clarified butter / ghee, is more widely used in asian cooking.

So, are they onto something ?.

Tom has made me think hard about giving coconut oil another go.

Began to read 'The Diet Delusion' last night as advocated by Tom. Three chapters in and I am amazed at the revalations on the validity of the low fat recommendations.

This book may be a life changer, seek it out.

i eat nothing but eggs, tuna and eccles cakes. i blame iJamie.

As Ton points out, if anything, the glaring difference between MDA and the iDave diet is fruit.

The only thing to add to that is MDA advises on low GI fruit, i.e. mainly berries because these also carry a lot of antioxidants. They also recommend certain fruits over others and eating them whole to get the fibre too, not just fruit juice which is pure sugar.

Liking this thread!

Great thread, loving it. Please can I come on the dietary discussion ride? No qualifications apart from love of butter, cooking and default food intake being low gi, low on processed food and simple carbs. Find that cycling makes me desire and use more simple carbs (tangfastic haribo, cake anyone?) than I have ever before which is slightly doing my whole food 'no junk here please' head in. I am not worried about my bmi or anything, and I am as good as I should be for the amount of riding I do, just interested in the insulin cycle and what's happening.

Clover.

Hi. So what are you wanting ?.
🙂

. Find that cycling makes me desire and use more simple carbs (tangfastic haribo, cake anyone?)

But I note that clarified butter / ghee, is more widely used in asian cooking.

So, are they onto something ?.

The main reason for clarifying butter is to raise the temp at which it burns, so better for frying with.

In your research for oils/butter for cooking with have you looked into cocoa butter for frying? How does this fit in? It's 100% natural, full of fat...

DGOAB - could that be to do with salt cravings?

[i]. Find that cycling makes me desire and use more simple carbs (tangfastic haribo, cake anyone?)
I'm finding similar atm too - except after a race, all i want is crisps. I hate crisps and never touched them until recently (it must have been at least 5 years if not more since i last had crisps) yet can put away a huge bag in seconds after a race![/i]

I see two things here.

Hunger after exercise.
Food choices.

As discussed earlier in this thread.
You can go ride a bike straight after getting up in the morning.
Without needing to stuff sugary things down your neck before setting out.
If your ride is beyond a certain distance / intensity, then perhaps during the ride, you may need to take on some carbs.

However, its also been mentioned that consuming some carbs after your ride, will help your body / muscles, recover from your activity, sooner.

As you might expect.
There will likely be an optimum amount of carbs to consume after exercise, to recover sooner.
This will vary from person to person, I'm thinking, for a few reasons.

BUT, if you're like me and you just bimble along for a 2 hour ride.
Theres probably no need to consume any carbs, after that ride.

Also, I'd guess that a lot of folk probably consume more carbs than they need for recovery purposes.
But who doesn't like a post ride pastry or pint, right ?.
😀
So theres your carb consumption during or after a ride, whatever.
But bare in mind we're trying to lose weight here.
😉

The other part is food choices when we're hungry.
I'm fascinated by the way certain hormones will influence what we seek out to eat, when we're hungry.

On an empty stomach, the hormone Ghrelin will be produced.
My reading has sometimes referred to Ghrelin as the " hunger hormone ".
As far as I've read, Ghrelin has been observed to significantly influence a persons food choice on an empty stomach.

This might explain DGoAB's experience ????.

Knowledge, solo, knowledge.... Really interested in the statement about insulin blocking the use of energy stores. I used not to be able to eat sugars, cake or white bread - they made me feel sick or drunk, particularly if hungry - but I have taken to eating the most astonishing food (for me) eg the morning after my first 140km bike ride for breakfast I had cereal then, still hungry, hard boiled egg, two honey waffles, a slice of pizza, little cubes of aged gouda, mini cherry tomatoes and, er, a chocolate Danish - ie virtually everything the Belgian garage had on offer). This is not the quinoa salad of my dreams... But then we did the Koppenberg and a few other climbs over 75km and I was fine. What has cycling done to me?

Solo, i'm talking about racing - hard as i possibly can/faster than i thought i could etc. My normal diet is healthy and works for me. Post normal exercise, i'd carry on with that. But anything i pack to eat post race is the last thing i want and i find myself craving things like crisps, or a steak (i don't eat meat!). After sunday's race (a PB of 21mph) after the crisps were gone, all i wanted was green leafy veg!

Clover -

Really interested in the statement about insulin blocking the use of energy stores

Dgoab I think it's partly the salt in crisps. They get me like that (although I do like them anyway, but much more so in presence of bike) plus when cycling I find myself adding salt to food when I used never to put it on anything.

Dgoab it is halfway down page 3 - tomhughes posting. That's before the 'best fats' guide (pages 4-5) and the ''diet and arrhythmias and epilepsy' discussion page 6 moving onto lifespan of caveman and woman...

[i]virtually everything the Belgian garage had on offer[/i]
😆

Paints an amusing picture.
Reminds me of when Chipps described having the bonk and recalled riding straight into the cafe tent at an event, in a quest for FOOD, all the food he could get for £5.
Which he then proceeded to fall asleeep infront of.
Made me laugh for days afterwards, imagining that scene.
😆

From you post, looks like you're already on the Low GI food thing.
So if your weight is good, you are active and have enough energy for the exercise you choose.
Then you sound as if you're already sorted.
🙂

DGOAB.
I'm learning too.
The real knowledge is with iDave, Tom and IBL, by the looks of it ^^^
But I have come to think Ghrelin has a part to play in when we eat and what we choose.
😉

[i]Really interested in the statement about insulin blocking the use of energy stores[/i]

Right, be gentle with me, I am stretching what I think I [i]know[/i].

Reading the other night about adipose tissue (body fat).
Apparently it has [i]receptors[/i] which by the sounds of things are like the locks on our body fat.
IIRC receptors are a2 and b2.
I think that when insulin is released into the blood stream, it suppresses the body's ability to access its stored fat using these receptor.
So, if you're having an insulin spike, then you can't burn any body fat.
I also believe that when insulin is at a very, very low level in the blood.
Then the process to unlock your body fat can engage.

Hence why, if you take that early morning hop on an empty stomach.
Your body will just continue to access your stored fat.
Eat something sugary and the situation changes and the glucose thats now in your blood should be used for energy.

As I said. Be gentle.
🙂

DGOAB - don't pay attention to cavemen just pay attention to your own body.

Not everyone needs the strict rules enforced by following a regime, or a 'diet' as prescribed in these threads. You're not fat, you enjoy exercise and you don't seem to need the crutch like others may do.

You should probably eat some steak though 😉

[i]Not everyone needs the strict rules [/i]

Which is why the iDave diet and similar, [b]is successful [u]at what it is designed to do[/u][/b].

😉

Solo - do you think you obsess about your diet a little too much? Or have I misunderstood you?

Post what you like TSY.

I feel I'm among like minded people here on this thread who have an interest in what their bodies do with the food they consume.

I wasn't aware I was upsetting anyone.

I'll be off then.

Could I ask for some advice please? I will be having surgery and off the bike for around 6 weeks, boo hoo. How can I cook some nutritious food with the use of only one arm? I am happy with salad but suspect I will be craving variety.

Thanks in anticipation. 🙂

Yeti - not a nice comment! Pot kettle ... ? 😉

This is blog by Pro Tim Noakes, one of the worlds most respected exercise physiologists, which might be of interest. He's an ultra runner too.

http://blogs.bmj.com/bjsm/2011/09/01/guest-blog-by-professor-timothy-noakes-a-comment-on-good-calories-bad-calaories-and-why-we-get-fat-and-what-to-do-about-it/

Hi CG,

Just a thought but if you have a freezer & a microwave, why not spend some time pre-op cooking up a whole load of nutritious meals and then freezing them.

Alternatively you can get fairly healthy freefrom "boil in the bag" meals from waitrose etc, that would be simple to re-heat. But not cheap.

Otherwise you just gonna have to get good at holding a knife with your foot and getting your leg up on the worktop! 🙂

CG - there is a series of simple gadgets available for one handed cooking. Perhpas try to get some contact with an occupational therapist who should be able to help

CG, you need someone to pop round and feed you grapes every night...

Also, get some custard, peel banana, dip banana in custard, eat.

I am really pleased with how this thread has turned out. And I am so glad that so many of you have got something out of the discussions.

The bottom line is food is not just food. Many have often labelled it as simply nutrition and whilst this is its primary aim the way it provides this and the affect it has on the body varies massively.

The second key point is that we all must become more familar with what we are eating and why. We must no longer take for granted that food produced for us can do us no harm and that these companies must have tested their products and deemed them safe for consumption. Many of the foods we eat today did not exist in their current form even 10 years ago (such as hydrogenated oils instead of butter). As I eluded to above there is a shift towards whatever is cheapest with no regard for our health.

Knowledge costs nothing and whilst sometimes it may be hard to wade through all the so called evidence if you choose your sources wisely (i.e. not the daily mail) you will find that most learned forward thinking people come to the same conclusions.
And I must reiterate the point earlier that money spent here will be saved and then some in later life.
What do you think a heart disease patient who can barely get out of bed would say to them if I said I could make them healthy again if they could offer me enough money...they would remortgage their house.

CG - a quick google gives

http://www.yankodesign.com/2009/09/07/single-hand-cook/

Knowledge costs nothing and whilst sometimes it may be hard to wade through all the so called evidence if you choose your sources wisely (i.e. not the daily mail) you will find that most learned forward thinking people come to the same conclusions.

Hmmmmmmmm

Not so sure on that. there is still a lot of divergence in opinion on the role of carbs and fats. the orthodoxy is still that its calories that count no matter the form

However having a good look around and making your mind up on the evidence you can find is a good way to proceed and to think about yor diet as something for life and to take a moderate approach cannot be far wrong

Solo - do you think you obsess about your diet a little too much? Or have I misunderstood you?

this made me think when i read it.
since i started on the idiet, after speaking to both Dave and Solo, i now think that i am starting to get obsessed about my diet.
but, i dont see it as a bad thing, i see it as a very good thing.
cos the reason that you end up 6 stone overweight is by not thinking about the shyte that you put in your body, and the damage that it is doing to you.
so for me, a little bit of being obsessed is fantastic.

and dont go Solo, cos you make a hell of a lot of sense, and also some of us need a bit of help and good advice mate, which you seem to give.

TJ - are you seriously thinking that the 'orthodox view' is correct by default?

ton - you'll find as you get into it you just know what to eat what to avoid and it becomes more chilled. keep up the good work mate.

Well, my inbox is overflowing with offers from STW'ers offering to feed a helpless female. 😉

Yes, I think I need to get organised and may even have to buy a cookery book. Menu planning is the way to go.

Thanks for the replies. 🙂

I have been trying to get my wife to get her head around this.
She is a PT and specialises in the overweight. So is very brainwashed in the current taught way.
She understands and takes on board how this works.

Her one comment that stands out is... People don't understand what they are doing now never mind confusing them even more with a 'new' way of eating.

I think you will have you work cut out Tom

"People don't understand what they are doing now never mind confusing them even more with a 'new' way of eating."

So stick to same old ineffective methods? If she takes this on board and adopts it her business will boom. It works.

Tenuous links between Government/food manufacturers and pharma need to be investigated. Too much self-serving going on.

cynical C_G

Not at all, but changing government policy and big corporations may be a tad tricky and take a long time. I just hope people are up for the fight.

*edit* She works on the NHS weight wise program and delivers a set program.

Great informed thread. Been stumbling towards this over the last year after recognising insulin spikes after carb heavy meals. I've been a heavy carb user for years as a (mostly) vegan. I guess soya in its natural state is OK but soya milk + other manufactured products isn't great?

My previous experience of riding on no intake has been hideous bonks. Is this a hangover from physiological conditioning to expect loads of carbs?

Thanks for the input onto the thread.

My previous experience of riding on no intake has been hideous bonks. Is this a hangover from physiological conditioning to expect loads of carbs?

I would say almost certainly so.
I certainly hope so anyway, otherwise my current carb restriction and horrid bonks will have been in vain!

horrid bonks

And yet you're still getting married 😉

Well I used to suffer terribly from bonking and you would naturally think the solution would be to take on more carbs during exercise. However since going low carb, I've not suffered this at all. But up until this point I hadn't even twigged that I had stopped bonking. But thinking about it it makes perfect sense as my blood sugar levels are now so much more stable.

Quick question. Now that we have established what types of food to eat/avoid, what do people actually eat on a low carb diet? Looking for some meal ideas, and preferably one-handed ones for the benefit of CG!

Mal - if you are having trouble with bonks riding on nothing have a handful of nuts before you go out. It will at the very least put something in your stomach that should be enough to fool the body into thinking energy is imminent.

For the record I eat almost all my food one handed.
Lots of salads - if anyone says salads are boring I charge them to try one of my salads, I'm no chef but I think they are pretty good!

curries (made of course with all natural ingredients and tonnes of cream , yum)
Mushroom stroganoff

Casseroles, stews,

Meat and veg, lots of red meat. Venison goes down very well.
Sausages made from cows I've seen walking around the fields and produced by a proper butcher.

The list is literally endless. Remember that most of our foods are low carb but we add carbs to them. Potatoes, rice, pasta etc.

Something I should add about paleo living, for me anyway, is that it's about so much more than just fat loss, which for me has been fantastic. It's about what you are putting into your body and how you feel. The ingredients list on many so called healthy foods is quite frightening in my eyes these days. I prefer to buy foods that don't need to come with a label, at least you know you're getting something natural that way.

But yes, it did push me through a weight plateau of 14 stone and 20% odd body fat to a current weight of 12 stone 12lbs and 8.9% bodyfat. Intermittent fasting has been the key to that for me, and that would be a whole other conversation in itself!

C'mon Solo... come back. It was an honest question and it's fine to obsess over your diet if that's what you want to do. Maybe you should consider a career move?

Intermittent fasting has been the key to that for me

Slight digression as that is really not right IMO, and is a good step on the way to developing a proper eating disorder.

What I really want to know is how many people come to Paleo diets and 'diets' in general from a healthy weight?
What would be gained from following one of these diets if you're not overweight?
What is the benefit of ditching chocolate, bread and fruit if you can eat these with no impact on your weight?

Or do slimmer people make healthier diet choices by default?

FieldMarshall - Member
Well I used to suffer terribly from bonking and you would naturally think the solution would be to take on more carbs during exercise. However since going low carb, I've not suffered this at all. But up until this point I hadn't even twigged that I had stopped bonking. But thinking about it it makes perfect sense as my blood sugar levels are now so much more stable.

Quick question. Now that we have established what types of food to eat/avoid, what do people actually eat on a low carb diet? Looking for some meal ideas, and preferably one-handed ones for the benefit of CG!

Meal wise, the best thing you could do is get a slow cooker. Mine is used nearly every day and it's deadly easy to stay organised with one.

Example of meals.. Today I have:

3 chicken thighs wrapped in cabbage, beetroot, a fried egg and half an avocado for lunch.

When I get home from work I will have rabbit stew that I put in the slow cooker this morning.

If i'm eating breakfast which only really happens on training days, it's generally 2 fried eggs, bacon and some of whatever vegetables I have lying about at the time.

I'm sure folk on here and probably registered there but for meal inspiration and general paleo/primal info, Marks Daily Apple is the forum I would go to.

Why so shocked Yeti? Everyone fasts when they are asleep, i just extend mine by a further few hours to give me a 16 hour fasting, 8 hour eating window to get my calories in which tends to be 2400 or so on rest days, and 3600 on training days.

Edit - as I bagged the 300th post and this thread is about trying to lose weight...

[img] [/img]

Sorry Stralfur I know of people who do fast but will take it to 24 or 48 hours. They also go on weight management forums like www.prettythin.com . That forum knows all about how to get super skinny.

Skinny is not my intention, healthy and somewhat ripped is. Obviously my training is based around this and curiously, I'm forever setting pb's when fasted. I find 16 hours is perfect for me, though I do a 24 hour fast around once a month just to mix it up.

I eat a huge amount of food in the two meals I do have, certainly far more than the people who keep telling me I'm starving myself.

that prettythin website scares me, seen so many lives, families and friendships destroyed by eating disorders 🙁

Tell me about it Philly 🙁

Fat is better than stick thin.

Staralfur - be careful dude.

yeti....how much do you weigh, if you dont mind me asking.

Stick thin is grim, definitely a sign of the times though when it's socially unacceptable to be thin, being overweight is just the norm now in my opinion. Far too many people, women especially hiding behind this 'curvy is healthy' ideal, when they are far from curvy, they're just a fat mess.

Thanks for your concern Yeti, I love food too much to go down that other road though! Merely my own way of getting better food into me, and getting the most benefit from it.

When I was a chubster myself I used to tell people I was half bulemic, just kept forgetting to be sick 😀

ton - not at all.

11st 8lb this morning. Heaviest I've ever been is 13st. Probably lost 50% fat 50% muscle.

I'm not fat, but I am interested in all this. I know people who've lost large amounts of weight through conventional diets, through iDiet and through prettythin diets.

I think the obvious thing to bear in mind here is that the paleo/primal lifestyle is the oldest human diet there is. I was dismayed to hear a PT at the gym describe it as a fad diet on Tuesday evening while also advising my girlfriend that she should eat less eggs and more wholemeal bread!

yeti, how would you know that it is better to be fat than thin.
seriously 11.8stone must be stick thin.

ton - go and read stuff on pretty thin... watch programs on people with anorexia. Talk with someone who's a little overweight and someone who is hellbent on becoming critically underweight. Try and rationalise with someone who purges.

My BMI is 23.1, I'm far from stick thin.

Assuming that's an online BMI reading? ie - not worth a shite. According to the onlineones I am only just barely into the healthy weight range, but it doesn't take muscle mass into account.

staralfur - yes, but it provides a rough view of how 'skinny' someone might be.

Could someone with a BMI of 25 ever actually be skinny??

You're not too far away from 25 and you sound pretty thin, so possibly?

A true bodyfat reading done with calipers is the only way to know for sure I guess.

TSY - you won't think fat is better than thin when you get to Mow Cop on Sunday

You're not too far away from 25 and you sound pretty thin, so possibly?

but it doesn't take muscle mass into account.

❓

Bodyfat calipers can't measure the fat that is sat around your organs though... and rely on one of a variety of algorithims to make an estimate of your bodyfat.

The mirror test is the best IMO. Hip to waist ratios are pretty telling too.

TSY - you won't think fat is better than thin when you get to Mow Cop on Sunday

😆 hence why I've been doing 20 miles every morning this week on sod all food.

I was dismayed to hear a PT at the gym describe it as a fad diet on Tuesday evening while also advising my girlfriend that she should eat less eggs and more wholemeal bread

That's because its what they have been taught by 'experts'

Star, not many people on here have enough muscle mass to skew BMI that far.

Ton your not *that* fat, in my wife's work she deals with people who are so large they can only do chair based exercise to start with.
One lady was 5ft 3 and 26 stone.

Insulin question again, does anyone know whether the sleepy after food feeling is a) increased glucose levels in blood b) the insulin spike as it sets out to deal with increased glucose c) the drop to low blood sugar post insulin or d) something else / the process?

I was very lucky as my mum was one of the original whole food evangelists (not the world's best cook so I feel as though I was brought up on gravel and chaff) so I can't really eat much processed food (I tried a McDonald's at 21 in an act of rebellion and felt so sick I haven't done that again). I think to get a good relationship with food you need to start young and if you've not be taught about nutrition from an early age you have a real uphill battle to retrain your body and taste buds and habits. Hats off if you're onto it - it's really worth it.

As for me I am just a bit worried about getting the balance right since I have stepped up the exercise - I seem to be less intolerant of carbs but that may not be a good thing.

US Marines body fat calculator based on meadurement if neck, waist, thighs, forearms is pretty accurate, based on thousands of actual measurements. Any decent implementation presents your value as a range within its known tolerances.

Meal wise, the best thing you could do is get a slow cooker. Mine is used nearly every day and it's deadly easy to stay organised with one.

have spare ribs in a primal BBQ sauce

Sounds nice.

Are the any recipe books that are primal/idave oriented?

I will need a variety of decent recipes to keep me going.

Thanks for all the menu idea replies.

Was just wondering whether I was missing out on anything in particular, but seems my diet of casseroles, stews, meat, sauasges and salad is pretty much par for the course.

Interestingly slow cooker was one of the first things I bought when I went low carb two years ago. Wouldnt be without it.

Despite the improvement in my health, I still cant seem to convince my wife that low carb and not low fat is the future. Plus she still always wants to have pasta, potatoes or rice with the meals, whereas I just have the protein.

She also still insists on eating the rubbish that people like weigh****chers turn out, yes she loses weight but more through malnutrition than anything else.