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Eggsactly.
I've done a fair amount of research into this and lost 26lbs in the last 10 weeks on a low carb diet.
The problem with carbs is that the body is very efficient at converting them to energy, so if you are fairly sedentary your blood glucose will rise more quickly than the glucose can be burnt up by the muscles. I think I read the total amount of glucose in your blood is only 1 teaspoon.
Once your blood sugar rises your body releases insulin to remove the excess glucose which it stores as fat, your blood sugar then drops and it is easier for your body to crave more carbs rather than to burn the fat it has just stored, this cycle repeats and you get into a vicious circle of craving sugary foods/carbs. Since I have been on a low carb diet I've not had these cravings and felt a lot better.
However I must say I don't see any problem in having carbs before/during stenuous exercise, in fact I think this is a good thing. Your body will be using the glucose faster than it is converted from the carbs so it shouldn't get stored as fat. Taking carbs means there is less risk of wasting your muscles away.
So the good news is I think that you can stuff in all the jelly beans/donoughts etc. you have been cutting out throughout the week with no consequence to your weight.
Just my opinion
Body Builders use low carb diets to cut before a competition. The one thing they will tell you if you are taking in very low carbs is that you should NOT carry out any cardio or high intense activities.
So Mountain biking or Cycling and Low Carb Diets do not mix.
.Body Builders use low carb diets to cut before a competition. The one thing they will tell you if you are taking in very low carbs is that you should NOT carry out any cardio or high intense activities.So Mountain biking or Cycling and Low Carb Diets do not mix
Mate plays golf with Xavier Rush...He's on a carb free diet and plays a bit of rugby and maybe gets a bit of advice off nutritionists...seems to work for him!
PSA: tonight's Horizon, bbc2 9pm
21:00–22:00
Horizon
2011-2012, The Truth about Fat
11/15. Surgeon Gabriel Weston learns the truth about why so many people are piling on the pounds.
I shall be watching that and will be particularly interested to see if thyroid disease is mentioned. 🙄
Don't take you heart rate above L2 (fat burning zone).
"fat burning zone" is a myth for lazy lard-arses who can't be doing with working up a sweat. L2 doesn't burn fat, it uses glycogen from your liver, just very very slowly.
Dissenters - MTFU
Ok ok, Firstly can I apologise for my comments regarding my qualifications. Despite what you might think I did not put that in to big myself up or say that no ones opinion is valid. I included that out of frustration that people seem to think I'm talking rubbish and have nothing to back it up.
Do you know why I bother posting on forums? Its because I want to help, I want to make you healthier and fitter and better faster athletes. I want to do it with no gain for myself, I actually coach for free because I love it so much I couldn't even think about charging despite having all the qualifications.
Yes, I made a mistake in what I said about no carbs. What I meant to say is that joe bloggs who isn't that active does not need carbs, not a single one. The body happily makes them no problem.
Athletes don't necessarily need them either, but they can help in recovery as the body is slower at repairing muscles and replacing glycogen without them.
Either way, thank you to those who have seemed interested. There is a lot to be learned in this so I urge you to read on. We are only given one body and we are lucky to live in the developed world. Do you best to take care of the only life you are going to have. Good luck.
How do you cope on the big sportve rides when you arrive at one of the multiple food stops and theres all the sandwiches and cake you could ever want but you cant have any????
I dont do sportives, but the last one by mum did had a selection of nuts at the food stop!
That was quite an interesting programme, particularly with investigations on twins. Wasn't really prepared for watching the surgery though. 😯
So much that we don't know isn't there? Was this programme a one-off I wonder?
Do hope it's on i-player cos I missed the last 10 minutes, wee snooze naughty me!
Athletes don't necessarily need them either
Define athletes? I work in nutrition, with a wide cross section of sports up to pro level and there are many competitive situations where taking carbs on board is pretty much essential if you want to be successful. I agree with most of what you're saying, but not that carb intake isn't necessary for 'athletes'.
nick3216 - I think quite a few experts would disagree with you.
Personal experience - 2 months of training pretty much exlusively l2 rather than my usual 'go for a ride' has definitely improved my flat out times over my test loop.
Should I really be listening to dietary advice from people who have lost 5 stone?
Given that the Horizon programme didn't meet with the 'it's all the fault of carbs' school of thought and even had the audacity to talk about high fat foods causing obesity, what conclusions can be drawn?
That the researchers involved were applying bad science?
That the programme itself presented the facts badly?
That it was all a PR stunt by cereal manufacturers?
That perhaps you can get fat from other foods but carbs?
That the issue is rather more complex than some believe?
Although I'm being quite flippant, I am seriously asking for clarification, especially from Tom who seems the most qualified to comment on any mistakes the researchers have made.
How I smile when I see folks state there's a direct link between eating carbs and putting on weight. Irrespective of the source, if energy in>energy out you'll put on weight. As long as that energy in comes from a 'balanced' diet you'll be fine. The carb link, I suspect, comes from their deliciousness: folks eat more than they need anytime they touch the delicious, comforting strands of nicely cooked pasta.
I'm looking forward to watching the rest of last night's Panorama. The camera work did look like the naked chef does surgery though, lots of odd angles and ECUs.
Irrespective of the source, if energy in>energy out you'll put on weight
But Tom, who is highly medically qualified seems to not agree, he stated yesterday that
Fat doesn't make you fat and it doesn't give you heart disease (I should know this one!)And calorie excess isn't what makes you fat, its all about your hormones'.
Pretty categoric that you can eat as many calories as you like from fats and it wont make a jot of difference.
Tom.
Glad we didn't lose you.
Stick with it.
We've got it all here.
Those who want to learn.
Those who think they know.
Folk who can't shake the 5 a day mantra and all the other, seemingly, misinformation that has been propogated in the media.
And we have lots of people half quoting Mr Twain, regarding [i]moderation[/i]
[i]That perhaps you can get fat from other foods but carbs?[/i]
Maybe this helps ?.
[img] 
[/img]
[i]That the issue is rather more complex than some believe?[/i]
I believe that its not all fully understood, mapped out yet.
However, I think theres enough info now for people to spot the culprit (Sugar) and try to re-educate the masses.
Issues appear to arise, as Tom pointed out in an earlier post.
It would seem that there are elements of the [i]community[/i] who are not moving at the same speed as others on this matter.
This, may be down to commercial influences.....
EDIT:
Oh, btw. I have also read that, what carbs you don't eat ( OP claims to be on a very restricted quantity of [i]carbs[/i], self imposed )
You body will make.
I've read that the body may be able to produce upto 200g of carbohydrate a day.
Whether these be fast or slow carbs, I do not know.
Might be worth distinguishing in discussion, the difference between [i]Fast carbs[/i] and [i]slow carbs[/i]
rather than just referring to Carbs ?.
Firsly idave - yes it depends on how you define athlete, BUT as I stated, carbs are not necessary but they do help in the right place. I could still train a session without any carbs, or any carbs to follow it. But I may be in the best condition to do the next session.
Take yesterday for example -
4.5 hours on the bike, straight to the track for a 5 x 2k session.
Carb intake in the day leading up to the session was 0. No carbs taken in during the bike (MCT oil only), I only had carbs in the post training period and that consisted of a carb/protein shake and then a sweet potatoe with dinner. That finished at 9pm last night, this morning I feel fantastic. Which is lucky as I am going out on the bike for 3 hours soon with an international triathlete who is going to make me wish I had rested up for the last few days!
Going back to the points mentioned above. Yes at some point energy in> energy out causes you to accumulate fat, but it is the cause of this which is key. It is generally driven by Insulin. When you have a carb or sugar meal you get tonnes of insulin, whose job it is to clear the blood of sugar, but also fat and protein. The other job it does is to act as gatekeeper at the fat tissue. When you have high insulin levels there is a block of fat coming out of the fat tissue, only fat will go in. Therefore you will accumulate fat.
Whilst insulin levels are high you cannot use your internal fat stores, however starved you become. Therefore you body will find other energy sources. It will make you hungry so you bring more energy in, it will in some extreme cases break down tissues to provide protein for energy, all with your fat stores happily preserved!
SO, the reason I don't train on carbs, the reason I don't have anything to eat before a 4-5 hour bike in the morning is simple, I don't want to switch off my primary energy source which is my internal fat stores.
And this is why I eat a diet high in fat, I provide my body with what it needs, fat for energy and hormone production, protein for muscle.
The key point is though, how long does this fat blockade go on for after you have a high GI meal? Evidence suggests that this can last from 2 hours (for very insulin sensetive athletes) to 2 days!
So for you obese fat person, they eat a pack of sweets, their insulin is then raised for 2 days, for that 2 days they are FORCED by their body to eat the energy it requires, any increase over that energy requirment (i.e. when they have a big meal at night when they don't need the energy) and they will accumulate fat.
Exercise increases insulin sensetivity, so goes along way to reducing this blockade time.
Oh and a second point, going back to all the stuff about fat making us fat. No fat does not make us fat, fat with sugar does though. The american diet is more sugar than it is fat with all the burger buns etc. But everyone has overlooked the carbs and gone straight to the fat because thats the thing thats high in energy density.
Oh and note about the program on last night, I didn't watch it so I didn't comment. But a Prof friend of mind who actually spends his day researching this stuff was very embarissed about how bad the science was, there is also a significant question about who funded the show etc. as mentioned above.
Once again it is the big companies who are driving the scare mongering and are essentially killing us.
tom, you can't use what you did yesterday as evidence that 'athletes' don't need to ingest carbs. If you knew you were going to counter repeated attacks from a bunch on rolling roads at the end of a 190km stage, would you still not eat carbs, before/during rides? As you say carbs 'help in the right place' which is quite valuable if you want to be successful in many sports.
(I'm riding with a 2 x world champion today if you think that sort of thing gives my view more credibility)
I do agree with 99.9% of what you've said though, which doesn't happen that often on here.
anyone who [i]still[/i] thinks that all calories have a similar effect on weight loss or weight gain should watch this. It's quite long but it will cure you from thinking that the human body is a simple oven with no feedback loops. Skip to 1'03" if you have a busy day ahead counting calories.
DT78 - it's not about your times, it's about your weight. How has that changed?
Not being argumentative, genuinely interested and seeking more information and context.
I have only kick started weight loss by adding more L3 and L4 to my riding.
Sorry, idave, I think we are thinking on the same lines but I'm not explaining myself very well. I completely agree with you, its just that difference between vital necessity (i.e. your body wouldn't function without it) and your body wouldn't function optimally without it.
Good stuff.
[i]SO, the reason I don't train on carbs, the reason I don't have anything to eat before a 4-5 hour bike in the morning is simple, I don't want to switch off my primary energy source which is my internal fat stores.[/i]
So, I'm not so mental, going for a [b]moderate intensity bike ride[/b].
(Not a [i]training[/i] ride)
First thing in the morning, with just water.
And I am right not to think I need to stuff my face with Haribo before I set off.
So essentially Horizon was bad science and duplicity with commercial interests.
Is this true of most (all) the research that identifies problems with low carb/high fats diets or is there still a lot of stuff that we 'might' be getting wrong.Or the recent stuff linking high fat diets with excessive imflamation and heart disease. Many claim to have no conflict of interest or funding implications.
Also, I wonder if in 20 years time forums will be discussing the mistakes science was making regarding sugars and insulin.
Any way, must be off to work, thanks for the info.
Question here.
So, you do your morning ride, fueled by your bodily fat reserves and glycogen stored in the muscles ?
Then when you get back from your ride.
You do not carb up.
Does the body then re-charge your muscles with glycogen, by converting your body fat to glycogen ?.
I used to be coached and eat plenty of carbs "for fuel" I did OK - Sports class for XC, but just outside UK top 10 at 24hour solo. Managing weight was a problem.
Now I am not coached, and I have changed my eating regime.
I eat a low GI breakfast, mixed carb/protein/fat lunch - typically tuna/pasta/mayo, or sushi & rice. these are the only simple carbs I eat. I don't eat carbs after dinner (the midday meal to avoid north/south confusion). I have cut out all sugary snacks, instead eating nuts or fruit.
Result? My energy levels feel better than ever. My endurance is better, and I can ride farther, faster. I don't get bloat from carbs during long rides. My top speed is also better. And my weight is stable not all over the place.
If I get cravings they tend to be for high protein foods or high fat savoury foods. I never crave sweet or starchy things. If I do eat simple sugars Ive noticed it screws my appetite for the next two days, making me feel hungry even though I don't need the calories.
I don't think this is actually new stuff. Re-reading coaching books from the 80s for roadies long race snacks would quite often have a much higher protein content than the scientifically prepared expensive supplements of today.
I don't think one solution suits all, and what works for me may not work for others.
I tend to concur with Tom and samebutlighter on this topic.
[i]I don't eat carbs after dinner (the midday meal to avoid north/south confusion)[/i]
Easy now with your regional stereotyping. I've never heard a southerner call their midday meal dinner, and most of the northerners I know don't call it dinner either. At school, certainly, it appeared to be the thickos who used 'dinner' instead of 'lunch'.
[i]I tend to concur with Tom and samebutlighter on this topic. [/i]
I hold little doubt that iDave, Tom and SBL are correct to the extent of each one's exerpience and knowledge.
So my question ^^^ is directed to any of them.
[i]Easy now with your regional [b]stereotyping[/b][/i]
[i]At school, certainly, it appeared to be [b]the thickos[/b] who used 'dinner' instead of 'lunch'. [/i]
PMSL 😆
the main meals of the day are, in order, breakfast, dinner, and tea
if that makes me a northern thicko I can live with that 🙂
it makes you a thicko, certainly. Nothing to do with being northern 😉
Tea is a drink, made by steeping certain leaves to hot water. Not a meal.
Solo, I don't eat before I train in the mornings, and only eat during training if it's a long one. Immediately after I have carbs and protein.
I may well do the half Ironman without breakfast. Not sure it's necessary as I can't see glycogen being depleted while I'm asleep and I don't want to switch on carb burning until half way through the bike leg.
I may well be proved wrong.
[i]and only eat during training if it's a long one[/i]
Right, that sounds good. I don't ride for as long a you will.
I ride 1 - 2 hours maximum duration.
I will certainly feel a bit peckish at the end.
Rightly or wrongly, I have ignored this for a while after the ride, before I eat a low GI choice.
[i]Immediately after I have carbs and protein.[/i]
I'm seeing more and more referrances to [b]some[/b] carbs post exercise in relation to [i]recovery ?[/i].
I think, some may refer to this type of thing as carb-refeeding ???.
Am I to believe that its a quicker remedy for the body to convert post exercise carbs to muscle glycogen, than to use body fat ?.
Thats for anyone to have a bash at answering, doesn't have to be just iDave.
🙂
iDave.
Will your blog be recording your findings on these different ideas you appear to be demonstrating, ref the half Ironman.
I may well do the half Ironman without breakfast. Not sure it's necessary as I can't see glycogen being depleted while I'm asleep
Can you tell that to all the pro-wannabes leaving gel wrapper litter on a racecourse during a one hour short course XC race 😉
What strikes me most about this whole business is the whole 'sports nutrition' market is heading for a wake up call.
My personal interest has been the association of electrolytes and cramp; a pervasive, pretty much ubiquitous idea that is beginning to look wrong. If the use of sugars and/or 'energy' products OS going to be revisited, I wonder what will happen to the market.
Solo - remember the iDave diet was for biffers. Having simple carbs during and after exercise is fine if the goal is quality of training and subsequent performance rather than body fat loss.
The athletes I work with eat carbs and I encourage it, but the right carbs at the right time.
[i]Solo - [b]remember the iDave diet was for biffers[/b]. Having simple carbs during and after exercise is fine if the goal is quality of training and subsequent performance rather than [b]body fat loss[/b].
The athletes I work with eat carbs and I encourage it, but the right carbs at the right time.
[/i]
Right you are, I had kinda left that behind, in my tiny mind.
I am more focused on reducing and maintaining a reduced Body Fat percentage.
So I don't think I need fast carbs after a ride.
Thank you.
crikey - I work with a sports nutrition co, often my advice to our sponsored athletes is to use less of our product. Use them at the right time in the right dose and they work and we're all happy.
nick - Totally agree on the gels at short events too.
So now you do iDave plus an apple - that's how it appears from your description?
Kinda, I still;
*milk in tea/coffee (but no sugar)
*biscuits with tea/coffee
*sandwich/crisps/drink deal from the canteen if I forget my lunch
*eat a chinese/indian teakaway once in a while, which invariably involves rice/nann/popadom/baji/prawn crackers and very sweet sauces etc
*the previously mentioned apples/bannana etc.
*don't have day's off, but do have big portions (well, ~75g) of simple carbs imediately after excercising to exaustion so probably not depleating muscle glycogen levels like I would on idave style diets.
But I do try an put some thought into when I eat carbs, so my evenings are pretty much carb free, breakfast is appart from milky coffee and I make an effort to ride into work and have fruit before/after rather than mid morning/afternoon.
Usualy I find it quite hard to lose weight, it would 'fluctuate' up then plateau, then go up again, then plateau, probably gaining about 2kg a year since I was 15 (25 now), but since putting more thought into it it now fluctuates up and down, just need to make a concerted effort to get more 'downs' than 'ups'.
[i]Can you tell that to all the pro-wannabes leaving gel wrapper litter on a racecourse during a one hour short course XC race[/i]
Yes, if they read this thread, they can probably save money not eating so much sugar, for such a short ride.
Solo,
Yes I have carbs and protein post exercise. The amount of carbs is based on how long the training was and how often I went into the red etc.
Sorry, I think there have been some crossed wires and in my despiration to refute the comments of the some of the 'fat haters' I may have misled you and the OP.
As idave states carbs are very important for athletes, they are no essential if you define essential in the same way you have 'essential fats, or essential amino acids' But they aid recovery etc. If you did not have carbs post training you would repair your muscles and you would re-charge your glycogen it would just take much longer and you would be at risk of further damaging muscle when it has not fully recovered.
This has turned very interesting.
Will this ever become public knowledge? So to say as it will require a huge u-turn in public health policy?
Exactly legspin, can you see why I get frustrated? At work I feel like I'm fighting a tide on non-believers.
I will shortly be putting on a lecture to all the cardiological consultants at the Glenfield hospital(The leading cardiac hospital in the country). Invites will also be sent to the top cardiologists in the country. The aim will be to present the current evidence in an aim to get some of the most influential people on our side.
Then we will take it to the government/nhs in an effort to change the awful advice given out on how to be healthy and try and destory the demonisation of fats.
Not as large as the U turn in food processing, food marketing and food purchasing.