You've basically described my riding there. I recently built up a new (longshot) FlareMax. On paper it looks like a daft option for a bimbler like me. Very long and very slack. But I couldn't be happier with it. Yes that long slack thing gives me a bit more confidence to atack the descents but it's still great fun everywhere else. Poppy, zingy all that stuff. I've actualy been setting just as many PRs on the climbs as the descents since I've got it. OK, there must be a fair bit of new bike enthusiasm but I'm still amazed at how much fun it is going up. Something about the springy nature of the ride eggs me on and means I put a bit more effort in and the length makes it really good at the more technical climbs.

I've never ridden a followig though and I'm coming to the FlareMax after a couple of years of mainly riding fatbikes, which are also great for bimbling by the way. So my frame of reference might be a bit off 🙂

I faced the same choice and ended up with a Following V1 (same price as the Flare).

I wanted something relatively light weight and 29er for XC as well as mucking about in the woods. I also have an FS fat bike so compatibility with plus (or even > 2.5") tyres wasn't an issue for me.

I couldn't be more pleased with it - it's brilliant - I've been getting PR's left right and centre on trails I've ridden for years. Sizing is as per their website (I was a bit worried it would be too short on reach and stack but it's about the same length as my 'fairly long' fs fat bike). Finish on the frame is good and I've invisiframed it so inspected every square inch. There's tubes internally for cable/hose routing which is great but the rubber bits that hold the hoses as they go into the frame aren't great, tbh.

I was transferrign all the bits of a bike I already have and another reason I chose the Evil was due to comparability with existing wheelset (a new rear hub would have been expensive).

[edit] If you sign up for the Bike Tart email they give a 10% off code which you can use against the price of a bike frame...

Hmmmm, that's good to hear but can i trust someone who rides fatbikes though (not one but multiple for heaven sake), that's the question.

Two of you? Dear gawds, am i a fat biker in denial?

am i a fat biker in denial?

Only one way to find out 🙂

I don't *only* ride fat bikes - the bits on the Following came off an Ibis Tranny which is a 70 degree head tube carbon hardtail 🙂 It's interesting moving from a 100mm FS bike with 4" tyres to a 120/130mm one with 2.4" tyres, bit of an adjustment for how quickly I arrive at corners and how much extra 'pop' it has but less conservation of momentum. Good to have a choice though 🙂 I'd still pick the fattie when it's wet - you can't beat mechanical grip a  4" tyre gives.

One other thing - if you put your bike on the car roof using a downtube clamp then you can't easily do that with a bottle cage fitted - the shock and swingarm take up a lot of the bottom of the front triangle and the bottle cage then almost butts up against it. You can remove the bottom cage bolt and swing it round out the way or get one of those Fabric type cageless bottles.

Ohhh good to know about the 10% bike tart offer thank you.

Fortunately i can boost-ify my hubs easy enough being hope so that solves the compatibility issues for me. Though i might find redishing the front wheel costs me a fair chunk in whisky consumed whilst doing it.

[Edit] My new forks just arrived with green stickers, hmmm that may have just made my tarty mind up.

[Edit 2] very useful info re the bottle cage ta, what size frame are you on? I'll be an xl so it might be better? I'm kit sure it would be an issue - i don't foresee fitting a bottle cage (as mainly I'm not used to the option on the fs) but useful to know.

To be honest, you can't go wrong with either. So, the true answer (as is so often the case with these threads) is just to buy whichever one you most like the look of.

I got a set of £10 stickers off ebay for my forks.

Not a great pic of the bike but you can see the forks etc.

I'd just told the dog there was another climb to go...

[img] [/img]

I'm not sure if that dog is happy, sad or dead.

Rover how do you find the flare up steep stuff? I Tried a tallboy yesterday and really struggled to find the right position on the bike to keep the front end under c control and the rear end tracking. Even on tarmac a seated position needed me either near flat to the top tube making it bloody uncomfortable (and meaning i kept kneeing my self in the chest) otherwise the front wheel lifted and wandered, a shift forward or lifting my backside saw the rear losing traction. (Admittedly it was 1in5 but its tarmac, obviously it was much worse on off road stuff)

I'm putting it down to the extra length mainly.

Hmm, I demoed a Tallboy last year and thought it climbed really well, but then I thought the same with the Hightower.

I noticed this yesterday on mine. I didn't initially notice it as it was a lot better going up than my Stumpy!

I guess it depends on what you're used to really. I just assumed that most bikes go a bit light at the front on steep climbs, but maybe not?

It certainly pedaled well on the climbs but the wandering front is lack of weight over the front, normally you just lean or shift forward a *bit* to correct it. The issue on the TB was the "seated" shift forward was off the front of the saddle which saw the rear wheel loose traction instantly and it's bloody uncomfortable to maintain for any length of time (it was not a good standing climber, the same happened as soon as you stood). The other option, leaning forward needed me almost parallel to the top tube to hold both wheels under control on loose bumpy climb that's not a good pedaling position for me and I'm reasonably flexible for a 30-40year old man.

loose was ok as the lift and wander is controllable so long as the rear keeps hold. Bumpy on its own was ok as a quick shift got the rear back under control but it needed to be solid grit stone or tarmac or something so you could hook up immediately, but the front bounced off course and wandered as soon as it was given chance. On loose and bumpy babyheady stuff i didn't have a chance.

This could of course all be tyre choice and pressure, I'd not run an ardent out of choice and certainly not at the pressures they had in them but, being as they were expensive plastic and not my rims i wasn't about to start messing with that.

Oddly one thing which did seem to fix it was dropping the saddle about two inches, which gave a nice upright pedaling position but totally ruined my legs.

A lot of what you said really felt like my Hightower yesterday. I'm going to play with the setup a bit first as I think I can make it miles better (plus it's a lot easier than changing bikes).

I suppose a lot of it depends on your body proportions too. I was all set to get a Tallboy, but got a better deal on the Hightower. I did contemplate a Flaremax too. The Evil isn't my cup of tea though, so apart from a few friends having them, I don't have a lot of experience with their bikes.

Apparently Cotic are easy to get a demo on, and I've not read a lot of disappointment with their bikes. I'm even contemplating swapping the frame for a Solaris Max.

"I guess it depends on what you’re used to really. I just assumed that most bikes go a bit light at the front on steep climbs, but maybe not?"

More to do with slack HA I think, which the current trend is to go slacker. My last couple of MTB's have wandered a bit on steep climbs as the trend for HA to slacken has taken hold....I've just got used to it, not a problem at all. Requires a bit more balance, but something you can adjust to. I'm not trying to kill any climbs so happy to just bimble up them, and challenging technical steep climbs I'm usually out of the saddle leaning more over the front anyway.

My new MTB is a Rocket Max, but I've got 150mm forks on so a bit higher & slacker up front anyway and they're 51mm offsets too so tend towards the more flip floppy feel anyway. But just crack on, its such a stonking bike and does climb well despite the flippy floppy front end. There always comes a point you've just got to accept certain downsides of some bikes, adjust to it and revel in their upsides.

I'm not really a fan of demo's. What you can really tell about a bike other than general fit and comfort, off the strength of one ride is very limited. So when you're considering an Evil Following vs. a Cotic Flare then there is no wrong answer. See which one you can get for the best deal considering the spec. and if any come in any colours you particularly like and decide off that basis.

I faced the same choice and only yesterday put a deposit down on a Following V1. Been trying to decide for over a year! See my previous thread.

Tested a none longshot Flaremax and Following MB and preferred how the Following climbed. The Flaremax feels very poppy and was great just the following just felt a better all round bike for my riding.

I suspect (like most things) it's rather personal and depends on your proportions. It's something I've certainly been watching out for on the FlareMax. I enjoy climbs just as much as descents but was expectling to pay a price there for the improved downhill performance. In fact, so far, that hasn't been the case and I've set as many PRs going up as down. I think I do have to slide forward a bit more on the FlareMax than on, say, my fatbike, which is glued to the ground. But nothing extreme. In fact, the longer reach means that I tend to pull myself forwards naturally anyway. Given the numbers I'm amazed that it doesn't wander all over the place on climbs, but so far I've had no problem keeping it on line even when I'm on the limit and down at waking pace. Generally it's actually a lot more fun climbig thatn I expected. That may be down to the unfashionably long chainstays I guess.

You sure you need a Fs rather than a HT? Sounds like you’re riding is more HT/XC/all round yet all the bikes you’ve listed are much about pointing downhill IMO. Wrong tool for the job maybe?

personally HT for me when pedalling/climbing is more important

I did think about the chainstay length being a part of it rover, that and (the now ubiquitous) effective seat tube angle rather than an actual straight seat tube means by the time I'm at ride height (70mm of seat post, collar, 170mm dropper, and 70mm of clamp and saddle) actually puts me a long way back over the rear wheel with what's really not a 73degree tube. I think the steeper st on the flare would at least help get me that 20mm or so forwardthat seemed to make the difference but was also the difference between a proctology exam and trying to float in front of the saddle.

Bri, I've got a nice xc-ish ht already and it's great for blasting around climbs and flat stuff, really not great on the downs but i can cope with that for what it is good for. What it's not good for are big days in the lakes and the like where the ground punishes my back and legs something rotten and the downs are [b]as[/b] important as the climbs.

My previous fs was great for the downs and certainly took the sting out of the miles (though it was like pedaling a barge so was knackering) but it also took out all the fun from the up and along bits of a ride, and generally descended to a push very quickly on big climbs. What I'm looking for is something comfortable for long days, and that's not a hardtail for me, and something that's at least a 6 out of 10, up along and down, which conceivably could be a hardtail. What i definitely don't want is something 2 out of 10 up, 3 out of 10 along and 9 out of 10 down, which my previous was.

Yes, you could be right about the effective SA. It doesn't look as steep as some on the geometry charts, but the actual SA is steeper than many, so at ride height it seems to work out steeper than some supposedly steeper bikes (if my back of the evevelope trigonometry is correct). To be honest though, I've given up trying to understand why it works. I'm just happy that it does 🙂

@bri-72  We're all different, but for me the hardtail full-suss decision depends more on how rought the trail is than the gradient. if it's smooth I enjoy the direct feel of a hardtail, but as soon as it gets rough my old ones are much happier with a bit of squish.