Has anyone got any real world experience of the two and would like to comment?

I’ve ridden a hardtail for the past ~3 years and now fancy a full suspension but don’t feel I have the experience to really know what makes a good bike or what suits my riding. I mainly ride round Calderdale and think I just want a ‘fun’ bike.

I’ve demoed a Cotic FlareMAX (and an Orange Stage 5) but don’t know of any demos for the Evil Following (and in particular the Mk1). The FlareMAX was good but I felt a little underwhelmed, potentially because it was the first full suspension bike I’ve ridden (and also 29er) – I think I expected more some how. It definitely felt more poppy which I much preferred to the Stage 5. Looking back it was definitely fun.

However from everything I read the Following is a really ‘fun’ bike. I originally excluded the Following because it was too expensive, however since they’ve discounted the frame with the release of the MB it’s become just about reasonable. Still very expensive though!

I’m currently leaning towards the Following but even discounted it will be a bit more than I want to spend.

The Evil will snap before you’ve got it out of the box. Probably.

Do a search on here for evil + warranty. If it was my money I’d avoid evil based on other people’s experience. Plus selling it on after is going to be tougher with that reputation

The Following would be coming from a local bike shop so I hope they’d provide some back up… However from what I’ve read Evil have improved a lot since the early days.

Hi
I have ridden lots of different bikes over the years and am sold on 29ers
I currently have a Jeffsy and a Following and an Anthem and have had a Trek Superfly, Intense Carbine, Ibis Ripley and Transition Bandit and I have to say the Following is by far the one I like best.

As you describe it’s just “fun”. That’s not to say the others aren’t this one is just better.
I use it at trail centres, the Lakes, Dales, NYM etc and it just works for me and what I want.
Would heartily recommend it and would buy again in a second.
If I could only have one bike this would be it.

Haven’t ridden a FlareMax but have a 26″ Rocket which rarely gets ridden-I accept the two may be very different.

Oh And no sign of the Evil snapping yet!!!!
I’d read all of the horror stories but I also read an article somewhere where they owned up to past issues and stated that it had been put right.
I discussed it at length with the bike shop I bought it from and was reassured enough to take a chance based on the reviews of the bike and the support they would offer.
Cheers
Steve

Where are you Charliew? Push Cartel bikes in Ambleside have a demo fleet of Evil Bikes
Linky. https://www.pushcartel.co.uk/shop

I think the evil issues were mainly a few years back – seem to be plenty of owners of recent bikes that are totally happy and had no problems.

Evil are now direct to punter, so don’t expect they’ll give a flying F about the dealers who supported them up until now…..

Thanks for that post fatgit. That was the sort of post I was after…

Apparently Evil are selecting a few local bike shops to distribute from as well. Don’t think Silverfish will be too happy.

I’ll get in contact with them, however they don’t list Evil as a brand on their website.

I think Evil have changed their manufacturers and carbon lay up, according to something I’ve seen recently on YouTube, so they have a sort of second generation which is supposed to be better.

I’ve ridden back to back a Cotic Flare Max, SC Santa Cruz Hightower (though on 650b+ wheels) and have also test ridden a Rocket Max. They’re all much of a muchness to be honest – all very very good bikes, very small differences between them all, some aspects better and worse about them all which basically boils down to individual preferences, but there is no such thing as the perfect bike. I would assume any bike in the same category would ride just as well irrespective of the material. Carbon bikes are not that much lighter than metal bikes and don’t necessarily ride any different (geometry is free) so I just cannot justify the extra grand to grand and a half for a carbon frame just for the kudos of having a carbon bike, so am pumping for a Rocket Max….though holding off until I test ride one of these new gen longer, lower, slacker bikes to see what all that fuss is about. Looking at the geo of the new BFE, which is towards the newer longer, lower, slacker geo, I wonder if they are going to transfer that to the Rocket Max soon, so you have the shorter travel Flare Max “trail slayer”, and the Rocket Max “enduro sled’!! I don’t often buy a new bike, my current one has lasted me over 4 years, so would hate to buy one and regret my choice within 12 months. But for me the Rocket Max looks like it ticks all the boxes – right price, right quality, superb ride, a bit niche, rugged as hell, climbs, descends and tootles along with consummate ease, but will eat up any big day in the mountains and uplift DH day, so a genuine one-bike quiver killer. I’m sure an Evil will do the same…..but will cost a couple of grand more.

I wouldn’t get the Cotic as you have already been underwhelmed by it and I wouldn’t get the evil based on their reputation for being useless. Widen the net if I were you.

Looking at the geo of the new BFE, which is towards the newer longer, lower, slacker geo, I wonder if they are going to transfer that to the Rocket Max soon

The new BFe copies the Rocket geometry.

Back to the original poster, how about a RocketMax instead of a FlareMax?

Completely random suggestion but if you want something full sus that’s poppy and playful as the main driver then my mate has a Kona Process 134 and it suits that description down to the ground.

I ride a Bird Aeris 145 (so long low and slack) that I love – when I rode that back to back with the Process it felt amazingly poppy. Manuals were incredibly easy and popping up off trail features was great.

Hi
I didn’t pay much more for my Following frame than it would have cost for a Cotic to be honest.
As stated below though it’s not overly light at around 29-30lb with Fox 36, XT 1×11 and Chris King/LB wheels.
I don’t care though

One thing I would say though is mine has Rockshox Monarch shock and from new blew through its travel quickly.
I read an article that said if you put 2 extra red bands in the shock it improved things no end and this proved to be true.
The shock also runs higher pressure at 250psi when my Fox shocks on other bikes are in the region of 180psi.
Not sure if this is the way the linkage works or some other reason.
Cheers
Steve

The new geo BFE is longer than the Rocket Max (15mm for like for like fork option), much closer towards the new Transition Sentinel/Whyte S150/new Bird and other ‘new geo’ 29ers out there. Though the BFE is obviously a different wheel size, but the lean is towards even longer, lower and slacker.

When I say poppy the FlareMAX literally popped out of the berms.

I don’t think I want a long travel bike, hence my current short list of Evil Following, Cotic FlareMAX, and Orange Stage 5.

Everyone I speak to that has ridden a Following just says how fun the bike is compared to everything else they’ve tried. I’ve yet to hear anyone really criticise the bike (although the company gets bad press).

I have an evil despite all the woes i’ve read about early models, of which there are very few in reality, given the amount they sell.

By far the most fun 29er full bouncer I’ve experienced. The shocks need to be equalised and it takes a lot of equalising to actually get a solid sag setting. Once there though it’s an absolute blast.

3 year warranty, not as well finished as a Yeti but from a performance and fun point of view they are outstanding.

Get yourself a demo, take the time to make sure the shocks properly set up and go find out for yourself. I’d be highly surprised if you come away underwhelmed or disappointed.

If you’re based near by you can come check mine out.

Lots to try, look at banshee bikes also

I’ve had my Evil Following for two years, done probably in the region of 4000km on it, one set of bearings, 1 shock (Rockshox) replaced under warranty. Local riding is FOD, trips into Wales, and survived baggage handlers for trips to Spain and Czech Republic with plenty of rocky trails. It’s an amazing bike.

Have also had a demo ride on a Cotic FlareMax set up ‘chubby’, it’s a great bike but I wouldn’t pick it over the Following.

I’ve ridden David’s ^^ Evil and did buy a flaremax after the same Demo David and I tried out in the FOD. I haven’t ridden the Evil enough to be able to properly compare it, but it felt like a taut, fun bike. I’ve ridden the FlareMax chubby and on 29ers. I actually prefer in on the 29ers (which is odd as I have two other chubby bikes).

On the demo tho, it didn’t feel underwhelming. I loved it and it was a horrible day.

Probably not helpful but both are excellent bikes. Cotic do have brilliant support tho.

I don’t think I want a long travel bike, hence my current short list of Evil Following, Cotic FlareMAX, and Orange Stage 5.

If you are looking at the FlareMax and Following wouldn’t the Stage Four be the more obvious choice? Mind you, if you tested a Stage Five and didn’t like it then it may not be worth your time trying to test a Stage Four.

I think I expected more some how

RocketMAX.
Still has the pop.
Doesn’t feel like a longer travel bike… until you need it.
Slightly slacker head angle.
Is more.

The evil will break. A friend of mine is now on his 3rd frame this year. Look on eBay at how many of those being sold are brand new warranty replacements. It’s a shame because the ride is brilliant

Transition Smuggler to throw another option in there that I suspect is in the price bracket and travel range?

Personally I wouldn’t touch an Evil. They may be good to ride (although I personally don’t get on with them) but so are a lot of the other bikes out there and they’re coming from manufacturers with a far better reputation of looking after their customers should things go wrong.

chrismac – Member
The evil will break. A friend of mine is now on his 3rd frame this year. Look on eBay at how many of those being sold are brand new warranty replacements. It’s a shame because the ride is brilliant

POSTED 8 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

See i find this a bit odd, my mate has a bike shop and evils are literally flying off his shelves. Now this is in Northern Scotland where they are treated the the way they are meant to be treated and in 2 years he has not had 1 needing warrantied.

Just to add a little balance!

Personally I wouldn’t touch an Evil. They may be good to ride (although I personally don’t get on with them) but so are a lot of the other bikes out there and they’re coming from manufacturers with a far better reputation of looking after their customers should things go wrong.

This +1
Sorry i didnt make my reply clear, when you eventually sell it on your up against santa cruz / intense / yeti + lots of well respected and well supported manufacturers. So whether you like it or not you’ve alienated what 20% of your market already based on their perceived reputation for not giving a monkeys about their customer. True or not.

Just re-read that, if you go for one best of luck and i hope it works out. I’ve personally ridden the the rocketmax and had a bfe and cotic were what i expect from a bike co – helpful, arranged demo’s answered stupid questions and will build up what you want.

I’ve ridden the FlareMAX and loved it, not ridden the Evil but I have been on bikes with similar geometry.

It’s the geometry that’s the major difference between them anyway, the Evil is short by current standards – at both ends. The Cotic is on trend in the front and long in the rear.

I didn’t think I was gonna like that but it really won me over. It’s just faster ‘cos it’s more stable.

My advice would be demo a few more short & mid travel 29ers and pay attention to the geometry, work out where your preferences lie.

It’s not that Evils snap more than other brands, it’s that they just don’t support you in the same efforless way we’ve come to expect from their competitors. They’ve had some right shocker posts on MTBR – blaming customers, etc. Albeit a few years ago, but the damage is done.

Just not worth it when you can buy a Knolly/Transition/Banshee/Santa Cruz/Pivot/Turner/Intense/etc/etc where they look after you properly.

Transition Smuggler to throw another option in there that I suspect is in the price bracket and travel range?

I have one of those as well 😉 Only ridden it 200km so far but it’s very different to the FlareMax. Different enough for me to justify keeping them both. Both brilliant bikes, but considering they ‘look’ similar in terms of geo/travel they ride significantly differently.

Alex, you’ve been singularly unclear on the differences everywhere I’ve read about you owning both.

Can you elaborate please?

I just took my Banshee Prime to Spain and didn’t find it wanting. Worth a look like wassisname up there says.

@scienceoffier – you noticed that 😉 I don’t rate myself as a good enough rider to be able to make a useful comparison for others. Also I’ve ridden the Flaremax for 1200km on chubbiness and only 200km on 29ers. So anything I postulate is caveated to the max!

I *think* the smuggler needs to be ridden more aggressively. I run mine with a 140mm fork (130mm is the normal build but most people seem to run them 140mm). The rear end is definitely more plush than the flaremax and feels bottomless. To get the best out of it, you need to be riding it almost more like a hardtail, really focussing on getting over the front. Then it just climbs into corners like a mad thing.

It’s taken me a while to gel with the smuggler. Last night was the first time I really felt like I’d ‘got it’. The FlareMax was fantastic out of the box, I just felt super comfortable on it and was as quick as I ever am from the first ride. It inspires confidence however crap you’re riding that day and can do anything. Mine’s been to BPW twice, Antur, Lakes, etc and only a couple of times would I have wanted a ‘bigger’ bike.

If that’s all a bit TL;DR my current summary is the FlareMax is fun everywhere but the smuggler – for me – is a little bit more fun on our local FoD trails if you’re prepared to push it. This could be new bike glasses and I reserve the right to revise my opinion!

Fair enough! Sounds exactly like my experience with both the Prime and my Last Fastforward, both of which have nu-skool geometry. I think the need to ride more aggressively comes from that.

I’ve ridden the Evil Following, FlareMax, RocketMax, Stage5 and Transition Smuggler as well as a few others. I’ve owned the Smuggler (not latest one) and now own a RocketMax.

The Following was good but didn’t feel any better than the Smuggler so the extra money and not great warranty rules it out for me. The Smuggler was a fun playful 29er bike which I really enjoyed, and i’d love to try the latest version.

The Stage5 felt like a bigger bike, it had much more confidence and stability in rougher stuff but did lack that “fun” that I enjoyed with the Smuggler and FlareMax.

The FlareMax was also good fun, I quite like how Cotic bikes ride and I was pretty much ready to get one until an ex demo RocketMax came up so I got that instead. The RocketMax has a bit more stability about it like the Stage5 but I prefer how it feels on the trail.

Don’t hold out for any new updated Cotic full suspension bikes soon though as according to Sam demo man they’re revamping the hardtails first.

You won’t go wrong with many of the newer 29er bikes but try as many as you can and find out which one you enjoy the most before spending the cash.

I’ve owned a Following for 2 years……..it hasn’t broken.

I still smile every time I swing a leg over it….and start laughing when I point it downhill.

For me it isn’t particularly “short”…..I am 5′ 7” and ride a Medium. i.e. it depends on how tall you are and what size you ride.

It isn’t just about the geometry….the DELTA link suspension is the best I’ve ever ridden….you can leave it in “Open” and somehow it manages to be efficient, playful and nearly bottomless.

I don’t care about the resale value…….I don’t plan to sell it any time soon.

Don’t hold out for any new updated Cotic full suspension bikes soon though as according to Sam demo man they’re revamping the hardtails first

Other than the revisions/spec tweaks announced about the Rocket on FB yesterday.

i find the current batch of Evils the fugliest bikes on the market!

the lovely straight lines of the cotics are much more appealing!

For me it isn’t particularly “short”…..I am 5′ 7” and ride a Medium.

Good that it works for you but according to Evil the bike is too big for you and you should be riding a small given the min guide for medium is 5ft 8. In today’s terms there is no getting away from it, Evil Followings are short bikes from a reach perspective. Whether that is a bad thing or not is entirely personal opinion.

i find the current batch of Evils the fugliest bikes on the market!

Ditto, but I didn’t wanna make it personal.

😉

Other than the revisions/spec tweaks announced about the Rocket on FB yesterday.

The geometry has remained unchanged however and that’s more what I was getting at, they’re not going to release a new super long and low Rocket just yet (though they do have some prototype ones like this).

i find the current batch of Evils the fugliest bikes on the market!

Oddly I like the appearance of both the Cotics and the Evils!