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Brucewee's link: Wow!
Even Apple don't get you arrested for complaining, do they?
Using Google. http://www.google.co.uk/search?sugexp=chrome,mod=7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=lifetime+definition
and
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/lifetime
There are some hic-cups. Can I clarify the EXACT wording?
[i]Lifetime of the original owner?[/i]
Or is it more ambiguous and can mean 'useful lifetime of the product'?
At the least though the statement should be clear and not open to interpretation either way.
I'd like my warranty to be based on the lifetime of one of these beauties:
[url= http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Harriet_fg1.jp g" target="_blank">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Harriet_fg1.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
(although not actually harriet, because she is dead)
Dave
Which and Money Saving Expert, for example, seem to survive OK on unbiased reporting
Both consumer organisations
....or does it mean a 'hora frame lifetime'? 😆
Do you have to have its permission to modify it then, does it get a say in the build spec?
I've not had a modified gerbil, how do you do that then?
Will my litespeed warranty not be honoured? (For Google)
I just remembered - I had a Raleigh road bike with a "Lifetime" warranty on the frame. Steel it was. 12 years old.
The chainstay snapped - I took it into Halfords and got a new bike.
I wasn't even the original owner (but don't tell Halfords (or Raleigh) that will ya.)
Says something about Litespeed (spit) though eh.
http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=litespeed+frame+warranty+not+honoured&oq=litespeed+frame+warranty+not+honoured&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=hp.3...77110.80242.2.80384.13.13.0.0.0.0.128.890.12j1.13.0...0.0.WTGyLKlRxZk&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=9e2621fae004ee9c&biw=1092&bih=514
first one that is not them now
Chapeau Forum
[i]So I started the first of my threads on the cycling forums, RoadBikereview and BikeRadar
One 2nd December, in the evening, I was at home and I noticed several missed calls to my mobile phone and subsequently emails from Chris Hewings, the salesman in Ireland for the American Bicycle Group.
At 21:50 Chris Hewings telephone me and said they would offer me a replacement carbon Litespeed and that they had reported my forum activities to the police. During the very long one-sided phone call Mr Hewings did not offer an explanation as to why my warranty claim had been rejected. However, he did promise a written offer within 48 hours.
The following Sunday I had the “knock on the door” from two policemen who had come to serve an harrasment order on me. Once I had explained the situation regarding my warranty claim against Merlin/Litespeed they left without serving the order and none too happy for being used in a warranty claim.[/i]
😯
That's just unbelievable, not even a civil case but calling the police for harassment as the result of a thread about a cracked frame.
What did they think they were playing at?
Makes you wonder how long before Chipps and Mark get their collars felt and this thread disappears...
[edit] and that blokes blog is number 4 on Google for Litespeed Warranty.
I think the original forum thread that started in was: http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12744794
I just remembered - I had a Raleigh road bike with a "Lifetime" warranty on the frame. Steel it was. 12 years old.
The chainstay snapped - I took it into Halfords and got a new bike.
I had one of the RSP Titanium frames fail on me (I was first owner). The LBS sorted out the replacement with no hassle.
top marks Raleigh, well done Eddie McGrath's in Urmston
Yup, calling the police on your customers puts Superstar's customer service into perspective, doesn't it 🙂
Crazy story about the police knocking on your door!
Interestingly he ended up with a free repair after change of ownership but I wonder if that's just because the frame was there and they didn't realise it wasn't a warranty job?
Seem to have reverted to previous practices since March last year anyway 🙁
I can't believe Litespeed weren't laughed off the phone by the police!
"hello police, somebody has written something on the internet that I don't like....."
I wasn't joking before.
Ask for proper proof of the original quality of manufacture specifically for your frame it opens up the question of how they actually differentiate between failure due to missuse and failure through production flaws.
My own suspicion is they don't do anything like like the level of testing and inspection that fabricators of equipment in many other fields would need to simply as a matter of RGP let alone covering them against liability for failure.
chase them, all they have is a wooley worded open to interpretation warranty and a decision that they are not at fault based on.... what exactly?
shandcycles did a funny
I find it very hard to believe the police would get involved in something like that.
There's a chap up here who keeps calling us every time he gets a shite review for his B and B on TripAdvisor, claiming (without a shred of evidence) that it's the previous owners trying to sabotage his business and quoting some Telecommunications legislation at us.
We keep telling him, nicely, to sling his hook, so he has made a formal complaint against the police!
(And don't get me started on 'someone said I was fat on facebook' complaints).
So it's not just LiteSpeed who go running to teacher when someone says something they don't like on the internet.
Litespeed Bicycle's frames are warranted to be free from manufacturing defects in material and/or workmanship for the [b]lifetime of the original owner[/b].
Seems clear!
But is followed by:
Useful Product Life CycleEvery Litespeed frameset has a useful life cycle. This useful life cycle is not the same as the warranty period.
This warranty is not meant to suggest or imply that the frame cannot be broken or will last forever. Bicycles and/or frames will not last forever. The length of the useful life cycle will vary depending on the type of frame, riding conditions and care the bicycle receives.
Whish is pretty much as useless and grey as it possibly could be.
I reckon you'd be rolling a dice on a small claims court claim against the seller/importer.
Having read this thread, and then googled 'Litespeed warranty', I cannot understand why anyone would subsequently buy one of their frames. The interweb is awash with tales of woe.
EDIT: Can I expect the rozzers to turn up now?
Gerbils-
shorter life expectancy shirley if (like my 'friends' gerbils) they spend time running up a cardboard tube with Columbian marching powder on their feet.
Or is that hamsters ?
coming soon, the Shand branded Galapagos Tortoise trailer.
So it's not just LiteSpeed who go running to teacher when someone says something they don't like on the internet.
Though when it's Nottingham Airport, everyonew suddenly takes it seriously...
Litespeed Bicycle's frames are warranted to be free from manufacturing defects in material and/or workmanship for the lifetime of the original owner.
Then in regards to my earlier post re google/dictionary definitions thats [i][b]very[/b][/i] clear IMO. No wiggle-room there for them. Badform.
It seems quite simple... if they've built the frame spot on, and it eventually dies, then why expect a free replacement? The warranty covers the frame not being built right, it's not a "use the product out and we'll keep you in new frames for life" special offer. Being offered a half price replacement after 10 years of love seem great to me.
kelvin - so why promise a warranty for the lifetime of the owner then. It seems that they are offerign exactly what you said: use the product out and we'll keep you in new frames for life ?
Why, how many other manufacturers' frames would last 10 years?
I still use my 1996 Saracen Kili Ultra titanium MTB. That hasn't broken.
I've got a 10 year old Giant NRS that's still fine.
I had a 10 year old Inbred that was fine.
Coyote ht4 still going strong circa 1998
A warranty covers something being wrong with the product, not it wearing out.
Litespeed Bicycle's frames are warranted to be free from manufacturing defects in material and/or workmanship for the lifetime of the original owner.
It would appear that neither material nor workmanship is at fault here. It's a design fault that fails to take into account the fatigue. Design isn't mentioned in that warranty statement so you're ~~~~ed.
A warranty covers something being wrong with the product, not it wearing out.
How does a Ti frame wear out?
A warranty covers something being wrong with the product, not it wearing out.
How does a Ti frame wear out?
Ten years of riding I'm guessing after reading this.
I bought an Airborne Zeppelin (road bike) which subsequently developed a crack at the bottom of the seat tube. It look like it started within the weld at the bottom bracket but then carried on across the tube itself.
By the time this happened Airborne had ceased trading but Van Nicholas had taken over and said they were honouring Airborne warranties up to 5 years. I just scraped in by a few weeks and true to their word they supplied a new frame. Amazingly this cracked at the same place within a few months so I contacted Van Nicholas again and they said that there was a lifetime warranty on this frame but suggested I switch to a different model. This ultimately cracked again after a couple of years and VN duly replaced it once again.
I can't praise Van Nicholas enough for the way I have been treated as they have always honoured their "lifetime" warranty after I supplied photographs of the cracked frames. Litespeed should be named and shamed as often as possible across the interweb and these frauds should be hounded out of business for the money-grabbing charlatans that they are.
Although I already seem to have a titanium frame for life, with my personal experience and all the other stories I have heard on the web, I wouldn't entertain buying a titanium frame now of any description. Empirical evidence seems to indicate to me that this is not the wonder material that it was once hailed as and you might as well buy a cheapish frame and just let it break and then buy a new one.
At least you get a new frame every few years.
Nothing lasts forever, but if you trade on the longevity of your product, and state "lifetime warranty" then you should honour it, and to be honest, who buys a Ti frame and abuses it? Its hardly a kids DJ bike!
Just had Trek offer a replacement frame for one that broke after 20 years of use. In this case a road bike 2300 frame to be replaced by a new Madone carbon frame set. Proper customer service from a company that honours its lifetime warranty.
that's brilliant lostneverfound 🙂
Reading this about vauxhall's "lifetime warranty" that covered 100k miles is interesting
http://asa.org.uk/ASA-action/Adjudications/2011/1/General-Motors-UK-Ltd/TF_ADJ_49572.aspx
The ASA noted that the supporting research provided by the advertiser showed that 96.08% of new car buyers would not reach 100,000 miles in their lifetime of ownership. We therefore considered that most new car buyers would be covered by the warranty throughout their ownership, in spite of the mileage limit.
[b]
lifetime of ownership[/b] is an interesting approach - and I reckon for a ti bike, ten years would be a fairly conservative 'lifetime'
Some people would ride a bike more in one year than others would manage in 20.
[i]Some people would ride a bike more in one year than others would manage in 20. [/i]
which is true and if they were clearer in their T's and C's as to what 'lifetime of the owner' meant then a lot of the bother they seem to have woudl be avoided.
The issue is the expectation they set vs what they actually chose to deliver.
If it says "lifetime of the owner" and then they claim that means five years, presumably they should only sell them to old people?
Litespeed Bicycle's frames are warranted to be free from manufacturing defects in material and/or workmanship for the lifetime of the original owner.Seems clear!
But is followed by:
Useful Product Life Cycle
Every Litespeed frameset has a useful life cycle. This useful life cycle is not the same as the warranty period.
This warranty is not meant to suggest or imply that the frame cannot be broken or will last forever. Bicycles and/or frames will not last forever. The length of the useful life cycle will vary depending on the type of frame, riding conditions and care the bicycle receives.
Whish is pretty much as useless and grey as it possibly could be.
I reckon you'd be rolling a dice on a small claims court claim against the seller/importer.
It cuts both ways, I'm riding about on a 15 year old kona frame, my old man has a Saracen which I think is knocking on 18-19 years old (one owner from new) I doubt either of us are very unique in still using old bikes so you could argue therefore that based on the "useful life cycle" that owners of "lesser" MTBs tend to see (irrespective of warranty periods, price, manufacture or materials), coupled with Litespeed's own claim that their products carry a "Lifetime warranty" that it is reasonable for a customer to expect well beyond say 15 years of fault free use...
It's Litespeed's own fault for not being specific, "lifetime warranty" sounds better than 1, 2, 5, 10, 15 or 25 years but at least if you state a fixed period of time there's no real question over the period of validity...
The trouble with the above statement is simply the lack of numbers, I can accept the "useful life cycle" point so long you put a number against it, otherwise it's a [I]"how long is a piece of string"[/I] appendix to the marketing headline of [I]"Lifetime Warranty"[/I] it's meaningless, in which case I'd say treat the warranty as still valid unless they can site a suitable legal precedent...
They are taking the piss basically, but you need to push hard to get anywhere...
[i]presumably they should only sell them to old people? [/i]
all those threads you see pointing out a fault with a bike with the suggestion it'll be ridden anywway and the question 'Will I die'?
Well Litespeed are working on the assumption that you will.
Well in this instance despite Litespeed's best efforts the original owner is not dead...
ergo he can claim on the warranty...