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that hardtail is one ugly mutha!
tbh if they did that Robot with more conventional suspension linkment I would be more interested. I lke simplicity me. So a Curtis would also be in the running. If I wanted a custom full suspension bike enough.
airdrop are a uk company, where the frames are build, i do not care.
You stated in your original post that they were a UK builder!
You should worry about where they are built
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I think I’m a pretty advanced level geek when it comes to understanding bike geometry - and my view so far is that no-one really understands MTB fit properly and the only way to know what works for you is to ride it (enough)!
So much as though I like the idea of a custom bike, I wouldn’t know what geometry to get. On the full-sus front my lightly modified Spitfire is pretty amazing but is shorter reach and slacker head angle than the current trend. Is confusing.
I'd love to have a go on one of the Robot Bike things, but they are a bit pricey. I like the look of the HB160 too, but I'm not sure if it'd be too much travel.
Bought a Santa Cruz because it was the best bike I've ever ridden. Couldn't care less about the reverse snobbery from folk who either spout crap on forums or mutter under their breath. In the same way that I don't care what others are riding.
If it's something unusual, I'll ask about it, but other than that...
Some people's knickers would never untwist if they saw my wife's bike!
Carbon is unfriendly to the environment i would buy a HB160 as I know its not made by oregnant women in a sweatshop in china.
I like what they do.
Not my bikes so. Not a friend of Carbon for bikes.
My hardtail bikes are based on low cost frames (0.25 k frames?), my Bossnut V2 is a 1 k full suspension bike. Works fine for me.
But at the same time I'am happy that others follow totally different concepts.
Nope but i did just buy a mint titus el guapo 29er with a cane creek db shock off ebay for £150.
Man did they depreciate!
Less hiding them in plain sight, more like camoflaging them.
I'm quite shallow and I was admiring the design of the Robot, then I thought about the name 'Robot' and saw the proper ugly logo stuck on the down tube and thought, nah.
So if I was in the market for a new bike, which I'm not, the Robot (ugh) wouldn't be a contender.
Why? Well as a Yorkshire man my answer is simple. "How effin much?????!!!!"
bloody hell. a few chips on shoulders here!
full disclosure: chameleon/golf owner. obviously sub par.
First, I think that both brands mentioned (Robot, Olsen) are doing great things. I truly wish them well.
But in an attempt to answer the question...
Robot : tubes bonded into lugs, for full-tilt super-bike money? Good luck with that.
Olsen : interesting, and very niche. Too niche?
Fwiw, i ride a mix of on-ones, genesis (genesii?), and Pinnacles. I've had others, they broke.
So if I was in the market for a new bike, which I’m not, the Robot (ugh) wouldn’t be a contender.
Considering the custom part of their offering I would guess you could have an alternative logo or nothing?
Personally since I tend towards riding what I am given I cant see custom working since I think "dunno about those angle thingies give me half a dozen built bikes and I might be able to say the one i like most" either prove rather expensive or be met with "sod off". Then again I do pretty much meet the average male height/reach statistic.
I think I’m a pretty advanced level geek when it comes to understanding bike geometry – and my view so far is that no-one really understands MTB fit properly and the only way to know what works for you is to ride it (enough)!
Yes, that's pretty much my position, although I'm less advanced 🙂
I've got a set of numbers that I think might work, but set against that we've got manufacturers who build prototypes, test, refine etc. So, what are than chances that my magic numbers will really work better than anything currently on the market?
If all these bikes are so shite , why dont people put their experise where their mouths are? You know money mouth awesome top selling product.
philxx1975 I did, I bought a Sick Wulfbarron. You haven't bought so much as a pair of socks
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If all these bikes are so shite , why dont people put their experise where their mouths are? You know money mouth awesome top selling product.
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I think they are both great, i can't afford either but that's not a fault of the bikes.
Good luck to both companies. I still say I wouldn't trust myself with choosing custom geo though. 😂
Or totally mastering the QUOTE function on here! Lol 😆
The robot is a cute idea but very ugly. The pinion bike is just an eyesore.
I went for a Shand. It's beautiful.
Robot : tubes bonded into lugs, for full-tilt super-bike money? Good luck with that.
And you think this is bad because?? You realise the joint will be the least likely place to fail.....
Regards geometry choices :- all frame builders will be able to give you geometry to suit your riding without you having to know what the riding characteristics the difference between a 65° and 65.5° head angle will give. That's partly what your paying them the (comparatively little) extra for.
The point of the thread is to discuss why more of us don't use small UK manufacturers over the large (mainly Us) brands.
Personally, it's all down to marketing. These guys can't spend millions on race teams which release regular new multimedia content. When you buy a bike you also make a lifestyle / image choice. Buying a small UK brand over a large US brand puts you in a smaller demographic .
The website is very hard to read.
All cables run internally to stop reduce cables geting caught on frame luggage. The rear brake externally runs allong the underside of the top tube...
Lots more like that on the site. I think it is important to proof read your website (or get someone to do it for you) if you want to look professional.
I read the "About" page, and Olsen are obviously doing something a bit different with their design, so good luck to them. As a very conventional consumer, I'm not their target market for customised geometry, but I'm sure it will appeal to someone wanting a frame concept that is a bit different. The trick will be marketing that successfully against all the competition.
philxx1975 I did, I bought a Sick Wulfbarron. You haven’t bought so much as a pair of socks
Low flying missed the point. If all these bike companies are so crap and getting it wrong why dont you start your own and set the world on fire, You have all seen how easy it is now.
I have bought plenty of socks in my time so yet again your talking out of the region in which you sit.
Unless you mean a pair of 80s throwback socks from the scatterbrains.
For me to even consider dropping money on a bike / frame I need to initially be drawn to the look and design. Sounds pretty materialistic or petty but any bike needs to look right.
Both of these look rubbish to my eyes so I wouldn’t go any further.
The Olsen website is pants and they choose some really hideous builds to show off their design.
I’ve enquired about getting road frames custom built and came away from the process thinking that the maker want to build what they want, rather than what I want as as customer. Rourke I’m looking at you.
This is put me off ever getting a custom build.
monkeyboyjc
And you think this is bad because?? You realise the joint will be the least likely place to fail…..
personally, I think it's fine.
but I'm not the target market for a Robot.
i just think it's going to be a tough gig, putting tube-and-chunky-lug construction (100 yrs old ?) up against some very sleek looking frames that have fallen through a wormhole to the future.
Simply: I don't think it's bad. I do think it's a tough sale. I wish them huge success.
The point of the thread is to discuss why more of us don’t use small UK manufacturers over the large (mainly Us) brands.
Personally, it’s all down to marketing. These guys can’t spend millions on race teams which release regular new multimedia content. When you buy a bike you also make a lifestyle / image choice. Buying a small UK brand over a large US brand puts you in a smaller demographic
Many of us ride Bird and Whyte.
Custom fs frame means custom geometry (and not completely that), not custom suspension design and behaviour. You get the suspension they sell, which affects what the geometry, tyre clearance etc. can be.
If you want it really custom, diy it is.
Robot : tubes bonded into lugs, for full-tilt super-bike money? Good luck with that.
It looks unusual because they're external and titanium but most carbon frames are lugged to some extent, you can't just mould and entire frame in one piece.
Bespoke. Another bullsh1t phrase to elevate something into stratospheric meta.
Mountain biking is slowly eating its own arsehole.
Marketing sells bikes and people are like sheep.
Big brands have big marketing budgets and peoples opinions are hard to change once set. Very few new small firms will make it to market. Even if they make a better bike we won't know because the big brands will market better.
On the flip side however if you have a great marketing campaign and website you could sell shite all day long.
Mountain biking is slowly eating its own arsehole
More a gentle rimming
Marketing sells bikes and people are like sheep.
This, this. And this some more
Many of us ride Bird and Whyte.
Your point being? neither do custom geometry. They also are UK owned , and not UK built.
Interesting question. Not aimed at me, price precluding my involvement in reality, as it does the vast majority of people, no surprises there eh.
Those buying top of the range bikes, that could afford to go custom! Hmmm prolly because those top of the range bikes are usually so well sorted, usually backed by a decent warranty, proper after sales care and are known quantity so to speak. Component specs tend to be a hair better as well, due to larger manufacturers buying power and exclusivity deals. Some of the bikes mentioned are quirky looking, which divides an already small market share further.
Who want's to take risks when the price is so high! If anything you want the premium to negate some/most of the risk involved.
Are people buying them?
I'm not. The Robot Bikes R130 is £3,245.83 + tax for a frameset. I think of bikes like the Giant Trance as a benchmark to compare other bikes with - the Trance isn't the best bike around, but a bike has to be better than that to warrant consideration. An aluminium Trance 2 is listed as £2,499 and a carbon Trance Advance 1 as £4,299. I can't see the Robot ending up a better bike for the kind of money I'm willing to pay.
bloody hell. a few chips on shoulders here!
It's the same every time one of these threads comes up and someone starts prattling on about "boutique bikes on the roofs of Audis". Personally, I've always considered trail jealousy to be the height of poor taste and thinking less of someone because of their steed (be it much more, or much less expensive than their own) to be something of a character flaw.
FWIW, my own opinion is that if you're buying a bike for life (as a lot of people riding touring bikes do) then bespoke is great and you'll get a bike that you can ride for years and is perfectly tailored for you for a few extra quid. But bespoke, full-suss mountain bikes? Technology moves on and I certainly don't want to be riding the same bike for the next 20 (or even 10, or more likely 5!) years, but in reality that's what you're saying you'll do as the resale value of these bikes will be absolutely dire - not necessarily because of the brand (although that probably won't help), but because noone else will want to buy a bespoke bike that wasn't bespoked for them.
Also, not a fan of the look of either bike, I'm afraid :-/
Your point being? neither do custom geometry. They also are UK owned , and not UK built.
If we're getting picky i bet many of the components on the British Built bikes are not British too then.
My point is, that many on here riding Orange/Whyte/On-one/Bird etc are not staying away from British niche companies as you seem to imply. In simple terms, as stated by more than a few, no-one is buying this particular British bike because it's 1. Ugly, 2. Expensive, 3. Unknown.
While the Robot frames appear very clever, I've wondered since day one what advantages they really offer over the 'custom' mitred, bonded and wrapped joints that other manufacturers have been doing for quite a while, the only explanation I can think of is Because Technology!
I can't deny it is a reasonable solution to the problem of making various carbon bike frames, without needing to rustle up a new mould tool every time, but a cheaper, simpler solution did already exist... And to buy something just because it's British is even more foolish IMO.
Of course we're all wired differently and certain things flick our switches more than others.
I will say this though, all the talk seems to be about custom carbon ego sleds and high end British made bikes, on a thread started by a man who is well known for designing popular and cost conscious hardtail frames, to me that's where the hidden gems lie if you want to resuscitate the British bike market (post credit crunch/austerity/Brexit) look to the affordable brands (Bird and Whyte have already been mentioned) not everyone is in the market for a superbike, but a good bike people can afford that was maybe just designed in the UK, that might turn my head...
I think a custom bike is a bit of a "forever more" bike. Anyone who's been MTBing a while will realise that things are still changing (and to some degree improving the bikes).
Road bike standards are relatively unchanged over the past several years - certainly if I'd bought a custom road frame and forks, I would still be able to get top notch kit to hang off it. A 20 year old MTB probably wouldn't even have disc mounts.
Also, there's the fact that by its nature an MTB is a bit disposasble (as are road race bikes too, I suppose, but you don't see many people racing custom frames) - at some point you're going to break things, quite possibly including the frame, even if it's really well put together then when you throw it at a big pointy rock it's going to get bent.
And there's not much competition on custom MTBs (a few hardtail manufacturers, but very niche) whereas custom road is pretty mainstream, which makes it easier for new entries to the market - even if their share is tiny.
If I had the money and had to choose, I'd probably take a custom frame rather than a Santa Cruz. But then again, I don't have the money.
many on here riding Orange/Whyte/On-one/Bird etc are not staying away from British niche
But I would say many have bought them over us or European brand specificly because they are British, at lease when I have owned those brands in the past I didn't buy them because of that. It was because they were good bikes at a good price point.
1. Ugly, 2. Expensive, 3. Unknown
On the Olsen I agree, not so much on the Robot.
I have always compared bike to cars for mates that don't get the cost. It's affordable Ferrari's, where santa-cruz are the Ferrari's of the mtb world.
You don't think the frame @
- Purchases in UK & EU+ 20% VAT = £3,895
£4000 for a frame is expensive ?
Sure, it's less than a supercar... it's less than a house too...
But that's putting it at £6000 for a bicycle.... that's expensive.
Road bike standards are relatively unchanged over the past several years – certainly if I’d bought a custom road frame and forks, I would still be able to get top notch kit to hang off it. A 20 year old MTB probably wouldn’t even have disc mounts.
Only if you'd stuck with calipers and qr.
3 different axle standards and 2 for discs in the last couple of years, isn't it?
I'd be well pissed off if I'd bought a custom non flatmount disc road bike.
You don’t think the frame @
- Purchases in UK & EU+ 20% VAT = £3,895
£4000 for a frame is expensive ?
Sure, it’s less than a supercar… it’s less than a house too…
But that’s putting it at £6000 for a bicycle…. that’s expensive.
Not if you compare it to other sports / hobbies. Some people spend that sort of cash collecting stamps, some will spend 10,000s on golf etc.
We're not comparing it to other sports, we're comparing it to other bicycles available with similar functionality.
Pinkbike rode a custom one of the Robots that was a £8700 build and came in at 13.7kg LOL.
Seriously ? That's what you get for £8000+
My bike arrived heavily laden with SRAM components: a RockShox Lyrik fork and Monarch Debonair Plus shock (they also provided a Fox Float X2 shock), 125mm Stealth Reverb dropper post, XO1 11-speed drivetrain, Guide Ultimate brakes, Roam 60 carbon wheelset and finished it with a Renthal cockpit. The complete R160 weighed a smidge under 29lbs / 12.76kg when it arrived. After I added Superstar flat pedals, a pair of Huck Norris tire inserts and added more tubeless sealant, it's fighting weight was spot on 30.00lbs / 13.59 kgs. My custom R160 bike would set you back £8500, or around $10750 USD.
I'm SO not sold... When you consider what else you can buy for the same sort of money... Why exactly would i/anyone buy the Robot bike ?
The Robot bike that he (pinkbike) rode was custom geo, only Nicolai at the time were producing anything like what he wanted, that's what he paid for, not weight saving.
Perfect bikes
Well built - Well Specified - Good Value : Choose two
I'd say perfection lies near the centre of the triangle - and the frames under discussion are down at a pointy end. Concerns such as exclusivity, fit and customer service might sway some people in that direction - but they won't be going in droves
We’re not comparing it to other sports, we’re comparing it to other bicycles available with similar functionality.
True, but they are going after the same market segment.
I have a On-One Fatty, singlespeed it would probably have cost about £500 to build, you've got a Parkwood, if we played golf we would probably turn up to the council course in trainers with a secondhand set of bats between us.
Santa Cruz, S-Works, Parlee, Cervelo, etc are aiming at the guys who cycle as a hobby but if they played golf would be members at Wentworth (or TBH given the cost of golf memberships, even just their local club).
My original point to Brant was that the reason you don't see many Robot bikes on the trails is simply because they are expensive and most of us can't afford one so most of us still ride around on frames not too dissimilar to the old 456's. That doesn't mean they are too expensive and they're not good value though (just like his trousers).
Not if you compare it to other sports / hobbies. Some people spend that sort of cash collecting stamps, some will spend 10,000s on golf etc.
The trouble is you need to consider people's actual income and the quite broad demographics of those already into or just taking up MTBing.
Yes there will always be products to tease Billy stockbroker's wallet open, but for a lot of people spending £1k on something that isn't totally essential is still a stretch let alone £2k and up...
After reading this forum for a bit, reading the mag (and others) You'd be forgiven for thinking a "basic" MTB costs something like £2.5k and venturing to your local woods on something cheaper would be met with sneers and derision...
Of course that's not the actual case, but a narrative is being constructed these day. (either intentionally or by accident) that will help to drive "normal people" away from even trying the sport. It's not golf or a whole lifetime spent collecting stamps, it's a bicycle that will probably be "out of date" within 24 months
Is £4000 a lot to spend on a bike frame? Yes, of course it is, how can anyone try and argue it's not? In fact a large part of the attraction has to be that it is expensive and let's be honest having people admire your possessions precisely because they are a bit pricey is gratifying for some of us.
But let's not pretend you're really getting that much more of a product for the spend. Making the TT 10mm longer and the seat tube 1* more upright than half the current stock models is all well and good but next year's specialized/giant/whyte or whatever will probably pull the same trick for a less stupid price. Unless you're going to go full Porter with a whacky shaped geometron, why pay "custom" money for something barely that different...