[Closed] Pentlands: Harlaw woodland track

The hills still looked surprisingly white this evening as I cycled over the Forth Bridge tonight. Thought there would have been more of a melt.

I'm liking your rear mudguard using the v brake bosses - is that a home made job or did you buy it?

Colin, I noticed the same thing too on the wooded trails down to the Curry road (Kirk Road or something?). I could see that most of the branches were from high up off the tree, but yes suspiciously there were none on the adjacent stony track or off the trails. TBH I don't blame them as there's a lot of irresponsible biking in the Pentlands when its wet...

fraseruk - Member

I'm liking your rear mudguard using the v brake bosses - is that a home made job or did you buy it?

[url= http://www.decathlon.co.uk/EN/mtb-rear-17251445/ ]Decathlon Rockrider[/url] - a whole £7.99

Huh, guess I'll take some tools out with me tomorrow. Wield my mighty upper arm strength on the pocket chainsaw 🙂

Druid, whereabouts were the problems at Harlaw... Was it the lovely rooty bit in the east corner, with the wee plank bridge?

Around NT177646 - the bit in the woods running roughly parallel to the Harlaw/Threipmuir landie track.

Oh - and I see that part of the Bavelaw boardwalk has been deemed unsafe. It's to be removed and replaced.

Gotcha, ta.

with the amount of edinburgh walkers i meet along the east lothian coastline who moan about mountainbikers (why do walklers all seem to be uneducated on the open access laws regaurding open access including bicycles?..) causing damage to the fragile soft peaty trails of the pentlands trails, some nazi reprisal trail boobytraps isnt suprising...
i stopped riding up there years ago when i saw the damage done from irresponsable riding in wet weather conditions and the glares from walkers...christorphine hill gets mentioned alot too...
seems a few are long term spoiling it for all and as any outdoors person knows walkers esp ramblers have the time and sway to get there voice heard...

These sections of tree look a lot more substantial than would likely be moved by a couple of miffed walkers.

If that's the bit of trail I'm thinking of it's really not very vulnerable to damage though- most of the harlaw surroundings are well drained, good solid soil too. It'd be a strange place for it. Especialyl since all the walkers seem to trudge along the path.

druidh - Member

These sections of tree look a lot more substantial than would likely be moved by a couple of miffed walkers.

maybe an unhappy landowner then?... a few of those around here...

druidh - Member

Around NT177646 - the bit in the woods running roughly parallel to the Harlaw/Threipmuir landie track.

ah - that bit. A few years ago there was signs up asking MTBs to keep off it due to erosion causing root damage to the scots pines, Everyone ignored it however so this might be the rangers blocking bikes from it????????

I cleared off all of pistachio way this afternoon- wasn't too bad, though obviously the middle bit's absolutely sodden, anyone riding it wants beaten with sticks IMO. The steam's full to bursting, the water level's actually higher than the trail in places and leaking through and the road was under water. The trail's going to be pretty ****ed in places.

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Didn't do the watersplash today!

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Also worked my way round the trails I know on the east and south side of Harlaw though didn't get to the bit near the dam which I guess is what Druidh was referring to. A couple of walkers stopped to help, one of them even took a turn on the saw, which was pretty nice These wee hand chainsaws are magic btw, they fit in a pocket but they go through trees much like a bow saw if you get it right. Knackering though! Got it all back rideable, the wee bit right at the eastern corner's got undermined by the reservoir so isn't safe though 🙁 I'll take up proper tools if I get up there on monday and hopefully cut a new line, but that's the best bit dead sadly.

Water level at Harlaw's crazily high! I dropped off the bank near the ranger centre without planning ahead too well and ended up in the reservoir Usually I ride more or less where the fisherman is

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Oh, as far as I could tell all the stuff I shifted was just lying pretty much as it fell rather than having been dragged onto the trails.

I've not ridden that bit in years, but I ride the bit further up as it doesn't suffer as badly. Was there still plenty of snow around?

Patches but not a lot. Actually, I was thinking about this while I was wandering around today, need to start another thread at some point but I reckon that middle section could very easily be rerouted- the problem's just drainage, the 2 really bad bits are the lowest point around there so it's just basically in the wrong place. There's a wee shoulder of slightly higher ground just to the right (as you look up towards the hills). The current line's just irredeemable basically, impossible to drain off.

Not talking about a massive trailbuilding mission here obviously, just a bit of gentle gardening 😉

Looks like the trails are pretty 'interesting' to say the least. I'm all for some trail repair as well, post up a time and I'll join you.

Nail Trail definitely needs drained too, bikers have destroyed it by riding it through the winter, it would benefit from some drainage channels being cut in places.

I was going to nip back up to Harlaw just now. But on balance I've decided I just cannot be bothered 🙄 I'm sat here in my riding kit and can't even be arsed to change out of it. So instead I'll waste time on the internetz.

I'll fire it in here, why not. I walked out what I think is a better route, off to the right of the current swamp.

It's already rideable, though a bit branchy. Usually the stream's a good foot lower, but the route I walked is all still above the high water level and it should all drain off in either direction. It's not perfectly dry underfoot but it's not bad, so most of the year it should stay in decent nick.

The second bit isn't so good. The ground between the stream and the trail here is very poor which is why I went right round the back of the fallen tree, but it does feel more like a diversion/long way round.

I don't really know if this is the right thing to do, but I can't see why it would cause offence to anyone- shouldn't really need very much in the way of intrusive work. I'm basically thinking just to clear a rough path, scrape off the soft organic crap, dig out any fern clumps, maybe a very small amount of shaping but not much. Very light touch stuff- I could do the first section myself in an afternoon and then just touch it up where needed but I'm not totally sure I should if you know what I mean?

Nail trail I agree too though I don't really know what would work in there, I don't know the area too well. But definately up for having a go- it's a real shame that bit and it must annoy the walkers too, it'd be nice to sort out some bike damage.

Hmm - I would basically be against any creating of new lines repairing damage is one thing but creating new trails is another all together

I walked down a trail by Bonaly Scout camp and noticed quit a few branches on the trail there.

Yup, that's how I usually feel- you've got the right to maintain what's there but not change it. But in this case, if you go and stand in the 2 wet spots you see that there's no way to drain them so there's not much that can be done maintenance-wise. Maybe a rock line could be laid round one side but then that could cause problems for the horse riders.

If you look to the left of the first section, a new wet line has formed just by being walked and ridden, and already it's falling apart. And I remember last summer, the same happened on the second part- the main path broke up, a new path formed beside it which also broke up, and then it became one big mess. And for the same reason it keeps getting wider.

But, like I say I don't know what's best. I just feel like I can ride past it and watch it get worse and worse or maybe it can be improved for everyone.

I think if you are keen to doi this then it should be done in conjunction with the rangers. I sopke to them a year or two ago and they were keen to get the MTBers involved but for one reason and another nothing happened

Last time I was down pistachio it it was fine - muddy as it has always been. To some extent I would say there was an argument that as there is an alternative path parallel then it should be left to natural causes - as it gets muddier less people will use it? I don't understand the comments about horse using it - no way could horse get down some parts of it surely and I have never seen hoofprints.

Hmm, see, I'd say it's got a lot worse, not so much in the depth of the mud but in the extent of it, the width and length of the damaged sections. Horses do use it, though not so much lately. Thing is, I don't think it'll ever be left to "natural causes", people keep on using it. There were a load of fresh tracks in it on saturday.

I'll contact the rangers too, see what they have to say.

I do think its worth trying the rangers - there could be a fair bit of labour mobilised I am sure.

Definately, I'll be looking for opinions from all over before doing anything (or deciding to do nothing 😉 ). Also, in theory I should be contacting the landowner since I'm assuming it belongs to whatever farmer owns the adjacent fields... Though as it's a windbreak I doubt he's too bothered what happens in there as long as it causes him no problems.

Oh if anyone happens to have any photos of the 2 sections in question from, say, a year and more ago- ideally this time of year- that'd be interesting to see, it's always possible I'm doing rose tinted specs here 😉

I'll try to get up there this week for a look at this and nail trail

For myself... I think Nail Trail if it can benefit from it would be a better target, after all it's a marked footpath and doesn't have a landrover track 15 feet away. I just fixate on pistachio because it's only 5 minutes away and I remember riding in those woods on my first ever mountain bike in, oh, 1987 or thereabouts

I decided to give the Nail Trail a miss at the weekend, however other than the top of the direct line and the bit under the pylon it's usually fine in wet conditions.

I haven't ridden Pistachio for months though as it's a lot more vulnerable.

An interesting parallel in the climbing world: You would have thought everybody knew that sandstone is very soft with only a very hard patina protecting it and that when the rock is soaked it becomes very friable, yet on wet days every heads off to Northumberland. If you look at the state of somewhere like Bowden nowadays; what where dimples are now ruddy great big soft holes, and there are scars everywhere where face holds have pulled away.
On the sandstone crags in the SE of what was once the GDR, you could be arrested for climbing within 24 hours of heavy rain.
Maybe we need the Stazi to control climbing and biking over here?
How do you do a smiley face whatsit again?

I first rode Pistachio Way in May 2003 and it's definitely gotten worse. The trail definitely didn't used to have 10' wide muddy sections. Some of the muddy sections used to be 2 alternate paths but now both paths and everything between them has become mud.

While making Pistachio Way a less destructive place to ride would be nice I definitely think that you'd need to run things by with the Ranger service first. Even if it was for purely noble intentions the problems that could blow up if anyone decided to complain about mountain bikers digging trails without permission...

Yup, absolutely. Dropped them an email this afternoon so we'll see what comes out of that.

Keep us informed northwind - I think there is a lot of willinng amongst teh bikers that use the pentalnds to help with path repair

Northwind - Member
Yup, absolutely. Dropped them an email this afternoon so we'll see what comes out of that.

Aye better luck than I had when I tried. 3 emails and 3 fobbings off.

is there any use emailing 'friends of the pentlands' too? i'd be up for throwing a shovel or moving some rocks.

I wouldn't be too shocked to get more of the same if I'm honest... But we'll see. I'll keep posting in here if anything interesting happens.

There have been several threads here over the years where MTBers have attempted to engage more with the Pentlands' ranger service. I've not heard that any have come to much but it's good that attempts are still made. I enjoy volunteering with the Glentress Trailfairies so it'd be nice if I could help a bit with trails that are even closer to home.

the moonters did some trail maintainance with the rangers guidance back in the early 90,s, thay even let us make the waterbars into jumps
they also said we got tons done cos we were generally much fitter than your average walker

druidh - Member

Aye better luck than I had when I tried. 3 emails and 3 fobbings off.

A reply...

"Hi Andrew

Thank you for your email. I will pass it on to our Senior Ranger Susan Falconer. She is currently on leave until the 20 August, but she will contact you on her return."

😐

So, that's not so great- is it just a brush off? Are they genuinely unable to act without her input and now completely paralysed til the end of the summer? Who knows.

Now, personally I'd love to have the support and approval of the Rangers, and I'm not too keen to go ahead with the pistachio idea without that- though what do you lot think?

But, I don't feel too put off from the idea of working on the Nail Trail etc- particularily since, according to their map, Nail Trail isn't in the park! But as that's pure maintenance I think it's a pretty different situation.

Also, while I'm in the mood I've also contacted the Friends of the Pentlands, since they've done some good work in the past and they've already got connections within the rangers.

Also, on the subject of landowners... I'm not sure how to go about this, does anyone know how to find out who actually owns the windbreak woods that Pistachio runs through? At a guess it's part of one of the kinleith farms...

Northwind - Member
A reply...

"Hi Andrew

Thank you for your email. I will pass it on to our Senior Ranger Susan Falconer. She is currently on leave until the 20 August, but she will contact you on her return."

So, that's not so great- is it just a brush off? Are they genuinely unable to act without her input and now completely paralysed til the end of the summer? Who knows.

Now, personally I'd love to have the support and approval of the Rangers, and I'm not too keen to go ahead with the pistachio idea without that- though what do you lot think?

I wouldn't. Too much chance of upsetting someone. Might be worth trying the actual landowner though. To get their support would be pretty essential regardless.

But, I don't feel too put off from the idea of working on the Nail Trail etc- particularily since, according to their map, Nail Trail isn't in the park! But as that's pure maintenance I think it's a pretty different situation.

Again - you really need to speak to the landowner.

Also, while I'm in the mood I've also contacted the Friends of the Pentlands, since they've done some good work in the past and they've already got connections within the rangers.

Also, on the subject of landowners... I'm not sure how to go about this, does anyone know how to find out who actually owns the windbreak woods that Pistachio runs through? At a guess it's part of one of the kinleith farms...

Give me a mo....

cynic-al - Member

>druidh - Member
>Aye better luck than I had when I tried.
>3 emails and 3 fobbings off.

Try not to take it personally Colin

Do you know of my history as Volunteer Ranger Al? 😳

Northwind - can you PM me regarding land ownership?

Thanks

Who are the rangers answerable to? Who manages them? that is completely unsatisfactory as an answer IMO - especially given that a number of us have tried to organise stuff over the years.

TJ, I'm not sure about all that, it looks like they're managed by joint committee between the 3 councils.

Druidh, just dropped you an email, thanks for your help!

I mentioned the Friends of the Pentlands- they seem fairly interested, they have a committee meeting tomorrow so I've spoken to the secretary and he'll raise it then. They don't have any particular authority but they do have a long history of working in the park so that might be interesting to follow up. Alternatively it might not, I get the feeling that for them it's a bit of a pact with the devil!

Ah hah, call off the lynch mob!

"I have just read the email I sent you re Susan Falconer, I must have had a senior moment as I said she was not back until the 20 August when in fact it should have read the 20 April. Sorry for the confusion.

However in the meantime Martin Duncan will go out sometime this week to have a look, while the ground is still quite wet. If he had had more time he would have invited you along, but he is going off himself on leave next week."

Now that's a lot more encouraging. So, a bit of watch this space.

Nail Trail is definitely off the Pentland Rangers beat, when we found the (or one of the) nail traps we went to them and they told us to go elsewhere.

I did wonder about that Northwind!