[Closed] Pentland MTB Orienteering event - thoughts?

Depends which areas/tracks are in/out of bounds, and where they put the controls really. Could be ok, could mess stuff right up.

Not the first pentlands MBO/trailquest there's been.

Agreed. It's a bit irresponsible considering the conditions of the paths up there. The Bike Chain posted some photies recently.. it's a bit of a mess:

The last orienteering event in the Pentlands was in February time! It was actually pretty dry and a really good event (well, I enjoyed it anyway).

Seems to be open season on the Pentlands at the moment, after the Mega-October-Avalanche held on Allermuir lat year...

Certainly puts me off doing any trail maintenance if I know it's going to be trashed for an event like this.

But March is the driest month in Edinburgh 🙂

It's ran for a few years now and is a good event - It doesn't really attract the numbers to be an outrageous assault on the trails. Maybe 50 people, something like that. The nature of the event disperses the impact considerably - it's a million miles away from 50 blokes hammering the same piece of singletrack over and over. Not that there's any ST in the Pentlands, but you know what I mean. I hope to come up for it.

Certainly a point worth raising though - the organisers often mark the maps with 'trail unsuitable' or similar, and are local so will distribute the checkpoints intelligently.

Good to know that they're sensitive to the conditions, but also agree with Colin 🙂

the organisers often mark the maps with 'trail unsuitable' or similar, and are local so will distribute the checkpoints intelligently.

Hmm maybe we're being too quick to judge. I'd like to see the people who're organising these events organise path repair days - there's certainly no lack of willing volunteers.

Phantoms was completely ruined by one of these events in 2008, not sure which one, but they were supposed to stick to trails marked on the 50k map, which I don't think Phantoms is. It has never been the same since.

Ah well Phantoms is marked on their 50k map as a trail within bounds.

It was a rat-race or some other "adventure" race that wrecked the trails in 08 - far higher numbers of people, all over the shop getting lost. Came across some folk in odd places*, some navigation skills lacking!

*the wrong side of the wall up poet's, in the grounds of the house, etc.

Ah right, I remember being surprised at the number of people, I was living at castlelaw farm at the time and was sitting in my living room with dozens and dozens of cyclists going past.

I'm fairly sure we didn't go anywhere near the Pentlands in the '08 Rat Race. Went across the top, and possibly down Phantoms in '06, but it was very dry up there at the time (in July)

I might have my years confused, there was definately an adventure race of some sort, between 06 and '10, where there were a lot of folk on bikes all over the shop and in some odd places.

You might be thinking of the Wan Dae in August/September 2008. Poet's Glen was in the route, but only going uphill. I seem to recall only using the more minor trails, not running anywhere South of the reservoirs and generally sticking to the hills closest to the bypass as the course was more spread out than previous years. Or maybe that was 2009.

Either way, a race in March in the Pentlands is poor, especially given the winter we've had.

Well if it was '06 I find it very hard to believe we did any significant damage to the trails - was very dry, and on the day so hot that people were struggling with dehydration.

I did the event last year (the Orienteering even)and would echo the small field comments, surprisingly small seeing as it on Edinburgh's door step. Last year it was held around the same time and was bone dry (and very hot).
Although I can see where people are coming from re the date, it is Scotland it's not as if the weather is predictable! I distinctly remember a few insanely wet days in May/June/July.

There are fairly strict stick to the paths rules and the "control points" (I think that's what they are called) are well placed so you don't have need to go off the paths.
From my experience it was a well run(apart from some annoying person stealing one of the control points, which due to my lack of experience, I spent ages looking for which possibly cost me a top 3) friendly event, and was a lot more fun than I had imagined (thought it would be a bit boring/annoying having to map read, rather than race).
It should be supported rather than grumbled about.

It isn't going off the paths that is the issue, it is the current state of the paths people are riding on.

It should be supported rather than grumbled about.

This. If you're grumbling about trails that should be avoided, why not contact the organisers to express concerns? Also they're surely doing it with liason with the park rangers you'd hope...

I think their map choice shows a blatant disregard for current trail conditions. They've added a couple of trails on there that are in awful condition, which leads me to believe that they've not bothered considering responsible access by inspecting the trails before committing to their use.

The fact that these trails have been added to their map suggests that there may be controls on those trails, which will just increase visitor numbers.

If you're grumbling about trails that should be avoided, why not contact the organisers to express concerns?

I wanted to check whether my concerns were valid before I approached the organisers, as well as giving weight to the grumbling if I have other grumblers to grumble with.

I barely rode the Pentlands last year (and not at all this year) mostly due to illness, but also because I could see the state that paths were getting in from use/overuse in wet conditions. Photos I've seen recently have reaffirmed those feelings 🙁

Also they're surely doing it with liason with the park rangers you'd hope...

Hopefully!

I really don't see why people are getting het up about this. I think IA makes a good point, if your worried contact the organisers.

But the numbers are low, not everyone will ride the same tracks anyway. And a fair number of them are locals that would be riding anyway.
And how do you know what the weather will be like? As I pointed out dry spells are just as likely in march as they are in July.
We could have a dry spell between now and then? The current state of the trails isn't that relevant as the event is a month away.

My experience of the weather is, that doesn't really stick to seasons that much up here. I do take the point that maybe May/July might seem like better options but if it tips it down then would you say they should cancel it?

I might be being harsh here but it just seems to be a grumble about something that might not be an issue and about a group of people willing to give up their time to do something for the sport. Maybe not exactly up what seems to be the majority of edinburgh STW's street but they should be supported not moaned about in my eyes. sigh.

Cowers in wait of response!

P.s the map is just of the area, the crossed sections are no go areas but there is no actual control points or route marked on their. I might be missing something but to my eyes it just a map of the pentlands?!?!

Cowers in wait of response!

In a car, obviously? Sorry...

In my experience of the Pentlands, April/May are pretty much guaranteed to be dry months (freak weather accepted), whereas March still has a good chance of snow or rain.

Not doubting it's a good event, run by able people, but given how seemingly bad paths generally are at the moment, can you blame folk for getting worried about the effect on them of an organised event? There are a number of folk on here who spend time repairing trails in the Pentlands who I'm sure are concerned! (I'm not one, unfortunately confined to keyboard warrior by illness, booo...)

Look at the OS 1:50k of the Pentlands, and compare the marked tracks on there to the ones on this map. You can see a slight difference in the lines between those already on the map and those overlaid.

They've added a couple of trails on there that are in awful condition

You are right, they have added some really poor condition trails onto the 50k map, including Capelaw trails and the goat track round Castlelaw Hill which no groups should be riding at this time of the year unless frozen 👿

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=321655&Y=665311&A=Y&Z=120

original 50k routes to compare against their additional ones.

I think contact the organisers if your concerned. I am fairly sure if there are tracks/paths that at the time of the event they deem unsuitable they will make them off limits, by BMBO rules if you go along a path that is off limits then you are disqualified.
I am sure their intentions in not to ruin the pentland hills, they will want to have the event seen in a positive light and am almost certain that the date/event will have had to have been agreed with the rangers. I seriously doubt that you are able to run an organised event, esp with national body behind, it without permission.

I will be running tyres with almost zero tread no matter what to help the pentlands out 😉

Look at the OS 1:50k of the Pentlands, and compare the marked tracks on there to the ones on this map.

You did notice that their map is "indicative" - ie it's last year's, and this year's might be different due to issues with tracks? As mentioned, if you're worried contact them - I'm sure they're not keen on making a mess of their own backyard, and can easily change the course at this stage.

NIMBY

An irresponsible idea. The Pentlands are in no state to host an event like this. Even if there was a drought between now and March 18th it still would be an irresponsible idea, such is the state of many of the tracks.

The only track suitable up there is the tarmac road up from Flotterstone.

How do you know what state the trails are in if you're not riding up there at all, kennyp?

Irresponsible and not in accordance with the LRA IMO unless they stick to the armoured paths only

Well worth raising with the organisers

How do you know what state the trails are in if you're not riding up there at all, kennyp?

I live a few hundred yards from the hills. I haven't biked in them much recently because of trail damage, but still walk and run (okay, the running's more like a brisk walk in my case) up there regularly.

kennyp - Member
I live a few hundred yards from the hills. I haven't biked in them much recently because of trail damage, but still walk and run (okay, the running's more like a brisk walk in my case) up there regularly.

As the organiser please let me respond to some of your valid points.

We at SMBO follow the outdoor access code which is for reasonable and responsible access for all our events. We contact all the landowners to ensure they are aware of the events and take into account their views and concerns.

I have contacted the rangers who highlighted areas that should be marked out of bounds. The map on the website is last year's map and has not been marked up with the out as bounds areas as yet. The challenge on this years event will be to not use a lot of the well known arterial routes that are muddy and at risk of erosion.

These events are not point to point so you don't have hundreds of riders going over the same point and churning up the ground. We normally have 50 people scattered across 60 square kilometres over a 3 hour period. Each person chooses their own path as defined by the map and they are disqualified if found hacking through/ being out of bounds etc.

My aim is to promote mountain biking and get friends and family out on their bikes and discover new areas not wreck the area.

I probably never appreciated that there are so many "trail fairies" out there helping to keep the Pentlands rideable. I will contact the Rangers and will organise some maintenance with my SMBO friends and others to help keep the Pentlands rideable.

To the grumblers out there, come and have a shot!

Look forward to your responses 😉

"To the grumblers out there, come and have a shot!"

Hear Hear

[b]anrmclennan[/b], thanks for your response! Very commendable aims of the event, and I doubt anyone objects to a fun day out, but I feel you are going to get some negative responses to this: "The challenge on this years event will be to not use a lot of the well known arterial routes that are muddy and at risk of erosion." and this: "...and discover new areas...".

There are many paths off the main arterial routes of the Pentlands, and the reason they are generally in good condition (compared to the main routes) is exactly because they don't suffer the same pressure of traffic. They are not surfaced, not signposted and are therefore not expected or engineered to receive much traffic. For these reasons their condition remains largely good...however introduce [i]en masse[/i] (i.e. 50 riders over 3 hours, the 60km2 bit is disingenious!) a group of people, at a time of year which is historically wet, is in my opinion (and others, I'm sure), not responsible. Not only that, but now that people know where these trails are, they are likely to ride them again throughout the year, resulting in further erosion.

fizzer is right, this does sound like NIMBY-ism, but this is unfortunately a hang-up of the LRA, in that it relies on responsibility and, sadly, many Scottish hill/outdoor users do not practice this point. Hence an attempt by those who do consider responsibility as key (e.g. us 'orrible lot on STW) to reduce exposure of our local hills to greater pressures. I am rather sad to not be able to support your event, I'm sorry, but think that it is the wrong time of year or even the wrong year to be doing it 🙁

As for trail repairs, Tandemjeremy is [i]fairie extraordinaire[/i], I believe!

I entered this event a couple of weeks ago as I have been keen to get back into trailquesting sorry mtbo again. This thread is giving me a bit of a dilemma as I am sympathetic to the 'locals' worried about the state of their trails. In past experience scottish mtbo has pretty small fields many of whom don't really get too far with only a few 'serious' riders getting up into the bigger hills to get the more challenging checkpoints. Would this really cause that much damage if the organiser is as careful with inbounds and out of bounds areas as he suggests? So is nobody riding in the Pentlands at the moment even the all the local forests in Fife more or less shut due to the carnage which was bawbag 2 in January? The fears expressed here strike me as a bit alarmist and I am inclined to ride the event unless convinced otherwise.

I'm another local who isn't riding the Pentlands at the moment. I've been doing some very [i]ad hoc[/i] minor repairs in places. I'm less encouraged to do so if some folk are just ignoring the state of the trails.

So is nobody riding in the Pentlands at the moment

As Kit says above, when the main routes are already trashed, the answer is NOT to then choose some lesser used routes and get them into the same state!

Admittedly my experience in the Pentlands is based on my old Glasgow mbc days back in the late '90s when we used to ride the Pentlands 2 or 3 times a year. There always seemed to be certain trails that were a bit trashed such as around Harelaw reservoir and also a bit of a classic descent which always seemed to result in somebody coming off into the electric fence which was there at the time. So what I want to know is how much worse the trails are now after our ridiculously wet winter? Is this event really a no go and if it is I will cancel my entry.

anrmclennan - I can't help but feel the idea of encouraging riders off the main routes and onto the smaller routes is the complete opposite of what needs to be done. The main routes marked on the OS 50k like the castelaw red road, even the main walking path from harlaw up to maidens, for example, are well metalled and 50 or so riders going over them won't cause anything more than cosmetic damage.

Encouraging riders to explore smaller routes like the tiny boggy track round the back of Castlelaw hill and the Capelaw tracks, where even 5 riders will cause some serious long lasting churning and damage, leaves a far more significant impact on the trail network.

The little uni club enduro that was organised at the end of last year down Allermuir is an example of how much damage a few riders can cause by riding on inappropriate tracks, and it wasn't as wet then as it is now.

crookofdeveon - I would say just use common sense, stick to the main metalled trails if the waypoints allow it, and avoid the really damaged sensitive routes like Phantoms Cleugh etc.

Tandemjeremy is fairie extraordinaire

love it!

From the pictures posted earlier in the thread yes the do look quite bad (not been up for ages, just road training at the mo)and a little worse than normal winters but I do still think the impact of the event will not be massive. As pointed out before (by yourself as well) it's a small field, maybe 50 odd. From the 50 say maybe 10-15 are family pairs who aren't going to head up onto the hills that much, then maybe 10-15 new people who again won't be heading off into the depths of the pentlands, so you maybe have say 25 ish "competitors" say 15 are local and maybe riding there anyway your looking at 10-15 extra riders who will only ride a section once maybe twice. Will not be a mass start so people will/should stick to clear lines and won't be trying to go round people as in a normal race.

Has anyone noticed the impact of this event before? Or even noticed that it's happened?

As events go I think this will be fairly low impact, just do it and you could always alleviate some guilt by helping on some repairs.

On that note, and I know I will get shouted at for this and I don't mean this to be antagonistic, just my feelings and do understand peoples fears. I would be happy to do some trail maintenance and have thought about coming along to the days organised, quite like a good bit of manual labour.
BUT and I know this is the internet and people have their "Internet persona" but there are some "voices" on here (STW generally not just this thread) which make it quite off putting. The impression given is one of righteousness, judgemental and a bit cliquey, do it our way or not at all. I am sure you are great people in real life but I can't say, for me it's that appealing or welcoming to spend the day with people that seem overly judgemental and to want to rubbish a lot of things I like about the outdoors- competitions, events, dog running about ect. It's not that I always disagree with the points or can't see where your coming from but sometimes a more balanced approach might be a bit easier to take and more welcoming.

As I said I know it's just the Internet but this thread is a great example of getting on you high horse about something, if your worried email the organiser first and get the full picture rather than getting all worked up about it on here before knowing all the facts. Don't think the organiser should have to stumble across a thread rubbishing their event, different if you contacted them and they gave an uncaring response or no response. A bit of respect would be good for someone who, like you guys, is willing to devote time to the sport.

+1 for the above response.

[img] [/img]

Some real debate going on here 😉

As discussed, I've spoken to the Ranger who has recommended putting the following areas out of bounds: Black Hill west, Dens, Maidens and Phantom's Cleugh and some of the area near Dreghorn. There were already areas out of bounds due to them being "sensitive areas"

I've also been round the area over the winter and considering one or two other areas to be out of bounds. A lot of this will be on the cycle path, lower level roads and the other main metalled roads over the hills. On the day before the event I will again review and may put other areas out of bounds too.

So the "challenge" for me is to have an event that doesn't use these out of bounds areas but still make a fun and interesting event

I agree that we (as bikers) should not be churning up the countryside and ruining it for others.

Also, March was chosen as it was before lambing and birds nesting. Summer is too busy with tourists/ walkers. Autumn is too wet and Winter is too unpredictable. So I will never win with the seasons 😉

Please come along and experience one of these events - you will then understand what mimimal impact a trailquest/ MBO event does.

I bet if you went out on the day, the only difference you'd see is one or 2 blokes with beards and a map board. 🙂

cows_in_cars - Member

if your worried email the organiser first and get the full picture rather than getting all worked up about it on here before knowing all the facts. Don't think the organiser should have to stumble across a thread rubbishing their event, different if you contacted them and they gave an uncaring response or no response. A bit of respect would be good for someone who, like you guys, is willing to devote time to the sport.

The OP was asking if his fears were justified and getting other views onit. there is a long standing history which you may not be aware of discussion and concern over these trails not by nimbys but by users. I am another one who has not ridden in the pentlands all winter because of the condition of the trails and I have been trying to arrange repair sessions.

I for one am reassured by the organiser but only partly so

I've just read everyones post and I'm still bloody going up to check it out. Whether i'll [i]participate [/i]is another story, depends on commitments.

I'm new to the Pentlands and feel real trepidation about independently exploring them in-case I do something deemed "inappropriate",

TJ is there a verbal forum that people attend to talk about the Pentlands with responsible representatives from all parties present?

Talking, eh.

cfinnimore - no - no forum

go and explore - just stick to the code then its no problem

I for one will not be cancelling my entry.

I will also not have any guilt, trepidation or other fears about riding a few trails that may or may not be wet on the day just so they can be in pristine condition should the local elite wish to ride them once every couple of years.

Maybe we should shut the countryside per se cos its been raining?

Its nothing to do wit the local elite. There are a few of us who are upset at the unsustainable erosion the paths are suffering and question the wisdom of holding this event when the paths are fragile and easily damaged. Many of us have stopped riding there because of the damage being done by mountainbikers being irrisponsible.

Cycling on hard surfaces, such as wide paths and tracks,
causes few problems. If going off-trail, especially in
winter, avoid wet, boggy or soft ground and don’t churn
up the surface
Take care not to disturb wildlife or damage natural
vegetation; observe information or signs advising you of
sensitive sites.
Take your litter away with you
[b]A group will have greater impact on the environment[/b], so
take extra care and set a good example if you are a Leader
[b]Help protect trails from erosion[/b]; don’t skid, especially on loose
surfaces and try not to lock your wheels when going downhill.
[b]Remember, you may not be the only cyclists using the route—
consider the cumulative effect[/b]

I for one will not be cancelling my entry.

I will also not have any guilt, trepidation or other fears about riding a few trails that may or may not be wet on the day just so they can be in pristine condition should the local elite wish to ride them once every couple of years.

Maybe we should shut the countryside per se cos its been raining?

Possibly one of the most selfish, ill-informed comments I've seen on here in ages. It's nothing to do with the state of the trails on the day or the weather. It's to do with the fact the trails up there are in a more fragile state than they've been in many years.

There is no local elite; however there are plenty of local riders happy to stay away for the time being to give the trails a bit of a chance to recover. Seems a bit pointless mind you with people like you with this sort of "well as long as I have my fun then sod the rest of you" attitude.

If that all sounds angry and bitter then it's because the Pentlands are an area I care about deeply.

Oh, and to the guy on here organising. Full marks for trying to explain, and full marks for being the sort of bloke working to give something back to the sport, but to be honest, this is the wrong date and the wrong place for this sort of event.

Petition to PHRP anyone?

Sorry I do apologise for wanting to ride my bike

You see if I was planning to ride somewhere and then some locals came on here and told me the trails had been trashed and needed to recover, I'd just ride somewhere else.

Local knowledge counts for a lot.

Ah I see the it's locals again

Do you own these trails?

Where are your local trails fizzer?

fizzer - Member
Ah I see the it's [s]locals[/s] the people with the most informed opinion again

This is why we are concerned - this is a more and more common feature in the pentlands. The organiser has said he is aware of the issues and will try to avoid damage. However given the fragile state of the trails I don't see how an event like this can be run. this is a main junction of trails marked on the OS map

[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7069/6929046405_5e3b7d4804_b.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7069/6929046405_5e3b7d4804_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/25846484@N04/6929046405/ ]Image1[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/25846484@N04/ ]TandemJeremy[/url], on Flickr

[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7200/6929072741_e1693fd68a_b.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7200/6929072741_e1693fd68a_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/25846484@N04/6929072741/ ]Image1[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/25846484@N04/ ]TandemJeremy[/url], on Flickr

TandemJeremy - Image 2 will be out of bounds, not 100% sure where image 1 is but if I think I know where it is (up the back of the reservoir?) which I may make out bounds too.

Please remember that this is a limited number of people going over a huge area on a number of different tracks. Not a group of people going over the same bit of land at the same time and in the same direction.

Majority of the checkpoints are well away from these areas and on good accessible tracks/ trails.

Obviously nobody knows me but I've organised these events for over 3 years now across Scotland and ALWAYS take into account the conditions and the landowners requests. I have had no complaints from the landowners post event...

Thank you to the other people who are supporting this event and I do understand the other commentators responses which I hope I have addressed their concerns.

If these are more and more "common features" why don't we all get a working committee together and fix it so we can all ride rather than just not riding??! 😉

PS - I am not making money from this (unlike the rat race etc) but trying to promote our sport and get people out on their bikes.

Those photos are at the junction between Phantom's and Maiden's Cleugh. A couple of years ago you could pass that spot without slowing, the trail was far narrower and it led down to a great wee rocky section. Not anymore since people have continued riding through all weathers and widening and deepening the track into the mess that remains.

anrmclennan

What puzzles me is if you make bits such as those pics out of bounds then how will you be able to have a choice of routes?. thats one of the few main east / west crossings of the pentlands - most of the others are even more vulnerable bar perhaps green cleugh.

Its a difficult balance. I hope this thread has been taken as meant by you and I commend you for calmly discussing it. I am reasured to some extent by this but I do question if you take the vulnerable trails out of the equation how much you actually have left to allow route choice thus make the event worthwhile - ie can a reasonable compromise be reached?

fizzer - Member

I will also not have any guilt, trepidation or other fears about riding a few trails that may or may not be wet on the day just so they can be in pristine condition should the local elite wish to ride them once every couple of years.

If we trash the trails now, they'll still be trashed come the summer. If we rest the trails now, then they'll be in a better state come the summer. It's not about not riding, it's about choosing when you ride, so that it's better when you do it.

The comment about "local elite" is absurd, what fraction of pentlands riders post on this forum? 1%? But everyone who does benefits from trails being in better condition.

You lot come across as bunch of whining, nimby moaners. As is is that area in the photos won't be fixable until it has seriously started to dry out and will need some form of base put into it to stop it happening again. As a trail builder and maintainer and also familiar with that area historically you should work with the organizer and get a work,party going post event to sort out one or two of the worst spots. Whether you like it or not most people simply don't care and will keep using these paths as and when they like.

Plenty of tyre marks in those pictures so the locals, sorry people with the most informed opinions, are riding there.

The organiser is saying that the routes will be out of bounds but even if they aren't it is no business of yours.

As above, bunch of whining moaners.

NZCol - Member

You lot come across as bunch of whining, nimby moaners. As is is that area in the photos won't be fixable until it has seriously started to dry out and will need some form of base put into it to stop it happening again. As a trail builder and maintainer and also familiar with that area historically you should work with the organizer and get a work,party going post event to sort out one or two of the worst spots. Whether you like it or not most people simply don't care and will keep using these paths as and when they like.

Garry - which is why the OP and most of the posters raised it as a question.

However the attitude of people like fizzer stinks and NZ col - you do not know what has happened in recent years when organised events and overuse has lead to extensive damage.

I have been riding in the pentlands for decades but the last couple of years have seen massive damage

Errrrr I might you know TJ. But anyway dont let that stop you. As I said, it needs fixing but you won't stop the uneducated from using it. Trying to work with events organizers who have offered to try an redress damage could work you know.

Really col- I thought you lived in NZ now. How much have you beeninthe pentlands in the last couple of years?

I do agree with what you say in essence tho. However I don't think its unresonable to [i]question[/i] this given that other events have caused significant damage and that the trails are in a worse condition and more vulnerable now than I have ever seen them.

As above, bunch of whining moaners.

Selfish idiot.

This isn't about "local trails for local riders" - the folk on here showing concern are the very same folk who pop up on "what trails near Edinburgh" threads offering advice and guiding. It's about respect and responsibility - as referred to in the SOAC.

Rather than being coerced into a trail repair session, the organizer should have had this built into the plans from day 1. I wonder how large the entry list would be if the participants knew they had to wield a shovel at some point? Pretty small if fizzer is an example.

Last year I was there 4 times, rode maybe 3 or 4 days, year before 7 times and rode at least 2 days each visit, 2009 I was there only twice but the year before that I was there 6 times. I have a bike there at my mums place and work(Ed) in Edinburgh you see. So I have seen it getting worse but anyway there is a fine line to be trod.

fair enough then Col

Sounds like the Rangers are on the ball anyway.

Maidens looks rank!

Unlike the others who are surprised by the reaction, I ain't as this is STW forum after all 😉

Anyway, I am gonna try this event out as I have heard it's great fun, and from the comments by the organiser I am happy that all the points have been taken into consideration 🙂

Sorry to say guys, but the nay-sayers sound so much like the Walkers and Ramblers I used to meet up there LOL Have the locals really turned into walkers? I don't mean walking I mean the kind of NIMBY approach to new events and uses of the local hills.

I did my first Mountain bike event up there in the late 80's, think it was run by WIlliamson cycles (ah those were the days) and have ridden there since. Was up there on Saturday and was happy to see some trails actually drying out! and guess what I met other bikes (shock horror)

Anyway, good luck to the organisers and I will see you there.

I don't mean walking I mean the kind of NIMBY approach to new events and uses of the local hills.

I can't speak for the others, but I have no objections to events being held or the Pentlands being used The key is that they are done [b]responsibly[/b], and my concern with this event was the timing.

My original intention had been indeed to contact the organisers, but I wanted to check whether my opinion (which is all it is, right?) was justified, and had the support of other local bikers. The concerns I raised are entirely valid, it seems, as vindicated by the rangers' decision to restrict the areas this event can operate in due to the existing condition of certain trails.

A number of comments have been along the lines of "people bike in the Pentlands all the time and you can't stop them". This is, of course, true and I don't think any of us want to stop people using the hills all year round, but people need to understand that access is granted on responsibility, and if people see an event organised by a national body, in (probably) wet conditions, taking in little-used paths then they will think that it is not irresponsible to use these trails. I think that this wrong! But this is up to the individual to decide, and consider the impact of what they are doing NOW on future years' land use (e.g. fizzer) and attitudes of the land owners.

I think these orienteering events are great and the Pentlands is a great place for it. Unfortunately the Pentlands have suffered from a large increase in MTB use over the last few years and we've also had 2 very wet years. I very much doubt some of the trashed trails will ever recover to their former glory. What is needed now is a plan to actualy repair and improve the trails so that they can sustain the current and future wear rates.

The council or Pentland Hill Rangers don't and will not have the budget or man power to address the errosion. A voluntary group would be a great thing to have that can promote the Pentlands and work with event organisers and local users to the benefit of all. I get the feeling that something like this will be coming in the next year or two as there is a lot of interest in this sort of thing right now. I for one will help out where I can.

No elitism or Nimby attitudes here, just a lot of genuine concern for the area.