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Not sure if I'm being unreasonable here or not, so I'm prepared to go down in flames. Here goes...
Bought a 456ss from On-One over the summer as a second bike. It came fitted with basic Deore disks, nothing flash but would do the job. The bike had a dozen or so rides, and the rear brake failed. Lever pulled to the bar, no brake. I sent it back to on-one as a waranty repair, as it's still pretty new. Anyway, got a reply saying it needed bleeding / servicing and wasn't under waranty as "the worn pads will causes an air lock in the pipe as it uses the fluid from the reservoir this contributes to the lever becoming soft and unusable till the brakes are serviced" - so basically tough sh#t cos it's your own fault.
The brake is back now, and each pad still has around 1.5 mm of pad left, which I think is plenty. I've emailed them back saying this but what does the STW hive mind think?
apologies for no random capitalisation or excessive use of exclamation marks 😉
I've worn my pads down more than that (with 525 & 960 calipers) without problem.
they're right - if the pads wear too much and the reservoir is emptied filling the pipe as the pistons move you'll get an air lock.
I guess they could have bled them for you but I'd probably have put it down to the 'risks' of buying mail order myself.
I think its bullshine. If the brake has enough fluid in it then even with totally worn out pads the reservoir should not empty and the diaphragm should prevent air getting into the system. Its wouldn't "air lock" - it sould go soft and spongy -= thats not an air lock
However - I would just have blend them myself to restore the lever.
Edit - just to be clear I think their excuse is bullshine but I don't think it a warrenty issue. It simply needs to be bled properly.
They are wrong: if the brake was correctly assembled and bled, and there was enough fluid in the reservoir and the reservoir cap was on properly (ie without trapping air inside the rubber membrane) in the first place the pads would be down to the metal before any air got into the hose.
Shimano are not that daft a company, with huuuuge r&d and would not manufacture a reservoir that was too small and led to this happening on such a safety critical component. ( BTW, this would be one of the dangers of mixing and matching your levers and callipers between brands, home bodgers.)
It would be interesting to know whether the brakes were supplied to on-one pre-assembled or as individual parts where they cut hose to size and fill with fluid themselves. (as an example, if you buy a whole shimano groupset OE in a big box from Merlin, they come as lever hose and calliper all separate with a bottle of fluid. I would imagine this is how merlin build their own bikes).
Assuming it has not been tinkered with eg hoses shortened, the fault is with whoever assembled the brake. And shimano brakes are so easy to bleed it seems churlish for them not to have just done it themselves when you returned it.
My 456 came with brakes that needed bled and had conaminated pads. My LBS fixed it and On One picked up the bill. Brakes are now working OK but I'm going to try bleeding them myself again soon.
I can understand air being let in if the pads are too thin, but after a dozen rides and with plenty (to me anyway) of material left then it shouldn't happen. I think they weren't bled properly to start with, I can bleed them but my point was I shouldn't have to. On One have now said they'll have another look if the brakes don't work after being bled, but it's a pain in the a#re if they have to go back again.
wwaswas - it is a risk of buying mail order, but I don't mind sending it back once. At this rate I could send it back twice and still have a bust brake.
That excuse is a load of baws.
I suspect they regard brake bleeding to be on a par with pumping up tyres as far as warranty goes.
So having said "we don't do it under warranty" which is probably OK, they then went and spoilt it by coming out with some claptrap to try and justify their stance.
I guess if they had just said "bleeding brakes is a user responsibility" and lefy it at that you would have accepted it.
I don't think this is a warranty issue at all. It's like brake cables needing adjusting. If the brakes constantly needed bleeding, then perhaps you can argue there is a fault. But the fact that the pads are down to just 1.5mm thickness adds to the argument that you've used the brakes loads and they've been fine up to now.
If you don't fancy bleeding the brakes yourself, take it to a shop. Surely this is an issue with buying direct rather than through a shop.
The brakes must have been incorrectly assembled and bled for this to happen. However its no problem to rebleed them. its routine maintenance and all bikes will need a basic service after a bit of use when new.
They are correct in that bleeding a brake is not a warranty issue, but their reasoning is a load of crap. I've seen countless brakes go down to the metal and not need bleeding.
Traildog - no problem with bleeding them myself, just consider it poor that they weren't done properly the first time. I wouldn't call a dozen 2-3 hour rides loads either, and to me there's plenty of pad left.
Gear cables are different, they stretch from new and need re-adjusting. They don't need to be replaced. Should we expect to bleed brakes after 4 months of riding? And as I said before, I don't mind sending stuff off for repair if I buy online, that's not the issue. Why would it be different if my LBS had said the same?
Bollocks. There's 1.5mm pad left. They should wear to back plate and still not lose fluid.
Anyhoo, I'll bleed 'em and see what happens. Anyne want to buy a set, 1 careful owner? 😉
Oh, and it is a warranty issue. They failed. Just imagine if you were hooning downhill and needed them to stop quick sharpish. You pull the lever, lever goes to the bars due to fluid loss, Steve t loses front teeth. Very shoddy service.