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sometimes the job a professional can do is better
This is where I have an issue with the current state of affairs, in places like the Evans' of this world that statement is simply not true in my experience.
Invariably there is one mechanic in the shop with a qualification in order that the shop can claim to have qualified mechanics and he/she is just one person.. the majority of the work is being done by unqualified part-timers and, at best checked over by the qualified mechanic before it's shoved out the door..
It seems that the quality of work done by LBC's is getting worse over the years rather than better IME. After having recently had a few experiences of trying to get work done where I had hoped it would be cheaper to have the shop do it than my buy the specialist tool required it's been a complete ballache.
Gear hangar alignment.. 'it's fine mate, was all straight, that'll be £20' (bollox it was, hangar was bent/needed replaced and dropout was also slightly out/needed straightened.)
Bearing replacement in swingarm.. took a week to do, bearings were pressed in squint in one case and another only pressed halfway in, 2 of the 6 bearings were either knackered before they were fitted or knackered by the time they had finished fitting them.. either way I had to fix their arse up. £50 + cost of bearings.
New headset fitted to a replacement frame... £40 charged, had to chase them 3 times over the course of a fortnight before they got around to doing it despite telling me it would be 'a couple of days'. Got it home to discover that the bearings had been fitted upside down for ^&%s sake..
That is just my own experience of 3 of the major 'chain' shops in Edinburgh.. I hate to think how many people they have put off riding altogether with their incompetence.
Oh and there is the classic one of having to point out to a fellow parent on the school run that the new bike he had just picked up fresh from a well known bike shop (not Halfords) had built his bike up with the forks on back to front..
All in all the only thing i tend to think when walking out of a bike shop these days is 'why did i waste my time even going in there!' then going home and sorting it online for less money and less hassle....
That is just my own experience of 3 of the major ‘chain’ shops in Edinburgh.. I hate to think how many people they have put off riding altogether with their incompetence.
It's a fair point but plenty doing a good job out there with lots of experience. Put that together with having the right tools available it can make for easier and better jobs than the number of STW threads about laying into something with hammers etc.
Some of the questions people are asking doesn't inspire me they will get anywhere close to a good job from the level of understanding or tools available.
I find the LBS/customer relationship is one where you pick the one that works for you and have trust in, that is how we reward the good work and steer people to them.
Well my local Evans is 8 miles away in a straight line. Could take 1 hr drive at the worst time of day.
If I worked 9-5 I'd probably have to drop it off at the weekend and hope to pick it back up next weekend.
That's not very convenient
There was a struggling LBS literally 100 m away from my house which closed last year. One guy owned and ran it with a part time helper. It was tiny and had only a few bikes in stock. I'd go in there and the guy would look miserable. Probably is dream which wouldn't reconcile with financial realities.
A well known LBS in the area closed in the late 90's. I think Halfords opening helped kill it. This was a really old school dark and grimy shop. Had a big suntour sign on the front.
...and there is a fairly high end LBS about 4 miles away from me which would probably be best candidate for me. But I've not been in there in many years.
Well my local Evans is 8 miles away in a straight line. Could take 1 hr drive at the worst time of day.
If I worked 9-5 I’d probably have to drop it off at the weekend and hope to pick it back up next weekend.
That’s not very convenient
Not sure where you are but the 3 closest to me are Deansgate - only really convenient if your working in Manchester and take the bike in but they open 8am-7pm in the week, good for me as it's only one extra stop on the tram to grab some stuff for a weekend. The one at the velodrome does 10-7pm and the one at Trafford park does 10am-8pm week days so I'd say they are making a big effort to catch people who can't normally get into a bike shop. The trafford workshop always looks busy, given how easy it is to get to and the free car parking I'm not surprised.
I'm out in Cheshire. Yeah the Trafford Park one (near Chill Factor) is most accessible for me, cos I don't live near the Metrolink.
Anyway I only have one bike so there is every incentive to fix things myself than leave it with someone else for X number of days.
Anyway I only have one bike so there is every incentive to fix things myself than leave it with someone else for X number of days.
Yeah, at the moment with only one MTB and very little space the idea of booking it in somewhere dropping it off one evening and picking it up the next day appeals a lot more, means it's ready and working for the weekend. Given how many bikes seem to go in and out it's a service that works well.
Halfords probably would be the best buyer we could hope for in many ways. They’re reasonably solvent just for starters and have been known to be interested in the upper end of the cycle market for a long time but unable to break in. For the person commenting that Halfords’s at least do decent tools, the ‘pro’ range has been around since sometime in the mid 90’s And they really do stand by that lifetime guarantee.
I don’t doubt they’re quite aware of the shortcomings of their own staff regarding cycle sales and mechanics so I’d assume they’d leave Evans’ staff mostly alone, possibly improving the workshop side of things. As several posters, reliable and trustworthy workshops are a major service in these internet days, although I’m the category that rarely uses workshop services.
I hope it all goes well!
Invariably there is one mechanic in the shop with a qualification in order that the shop can claim to have qualified mechanics and he/she is just one person.. the majority of the work is being done by unqualified part-timers and, at best checked over by the qualified mechanic before it’s shoved out the door..
Isn't qualifications the issue though? Since qualifications were introduced the mechanics role becomes based on paper rather than experience. Those with masses of experience become devalued as those with the same qualification become elevated to the same level. Cue mass exodus of the good mechanics to set up as independents/workshops only leaving the stores to chase bits of paper. Maybe I am wrong but that seems to me to have been the general trajectory since formal qualifications were introduced. Not saying of course that you won't find good mechanics in LBSes but they're not leaving to set up on their own because the streets are paved with gold in the world of an independent mechanic....
Down here in Somerset there are 5 indie bike mechanics running without retail space.. at least one does office or home pickups/drop offfs too... surely in more populated areas this is happening too?
There is very little on a modern bike thats complicated to do especially if you can refer to a Youtube video as well (or ask on here). The difficulty comes with the cost of the various special tools you might need to buy and also the proliferation of standards that are around these days which can make buying replacement components difficult.
Maybe some kind of tool hire system would work?
Maybe some kind of tool hire system would work?
Would that give me more time, space and somewhere to do the messy jobs?
There is very little on a modern bike thats complicated to do especially if you can refer to a Youtube video as well (or ask on here).
If you assume the only reason people don't work on their own bikes is a fear or lack of understanding your missing the point. From not wanting to, being able to pay somebody, happy to pay somebody or making the time/cost balance thing that says your bike is good to go on a Saturday morning rather than still waiting on the bit to arrive from CRC etc.
I have one of the independent mechanics mentioned above living near me. He has done a few jobs for me but charges as much as most lbs. I thought one of the advantages of such a set up was that not having to spend money on retail infrastructure made prices cheaper.
agree. i used to do almost everything on my bikes, (bar taking apart suspension, and certain tasks related to pressing bearings in....) post parenthood - i'll pay someone to sort out whatever niggling issue i used to spend hours doing as i'm more time poor than cash poor,,
I thought one of the advantages of such a set up was that not having to spend money on retail infrastructure made prices cheaper.
All they need to be is competitive on price and more convenient to be a better option for people, being mobile and driving around you probably have more to manage, more down time to account for and a vehicle to fund (and insure) if you can still make a living then good for them.
The question should really be is the service worth the price quoted?
I'd be very surprised if there was any money in being a mobile mechanic.
From not wanting to, being able to pay somebody, happy to pay somebody or making the time/cost balance thing that says your bike is good to go on a Saturday morning rather than still waiting on the bit to arrive from CRC etc.
I'd probably waste 2 or 3 hrs taking my bike to the LBS, going back home, driving back, paying in the shop, then coming home again.
I could probably strip and bike down to the frame and rebuild it in that time.
I’d probably waste 2 or 3 hrs taking my bike to the LBS, going back home, driving back, paying in the shop, then coming home again.
I could probably strip and bike down to the frame and rebuild it in that time.
Well done, you are missing the you and other people part, for many it's easier. Anyway your post up there says you have a LBS 4 miles away and Evans is max of an hour away from you? Are you overestimating that time and underestimating the time to fix stuff?
Do you understand why other people don't want to spend their time fixing a bike or changing a drivetrain in their kitchen etc. especially as we head into winter?
Do you understand why other people don’t want to spend their time fixing a bike or changing a drivetrain in their kitchen etc. especially as we head into winter?
Yeah I can't I won't lie, some people are super busy or have kids and things.
But some people are super lazy too, and I'd wager that inability to take a wheel off or put a dropped chain back on when out on a ride, correlates strongly with never meching on a bike at home 😀
Know a few people who'd just take the bike into the LBS and spend a fortune for the slightest little thing, frequently. Things that are very easy for anyone to do and takes a couple of minutes.
Fair enough not wanting to be doing work that involves a mess in the kitchen, tools and hours of faff, but stuff like skipping gears that just needs a slight adjustment and could be done trail side, but into the shop it goes. Their money though 😀
It makes me laugh when people say that if they don't know how to do something on their bike there is a you tube video to show them how . I recently watched a you tube video of a man juggling seven skittles but guess what it didn't mean that I was able to do it myself .
but stuff like skipping gears that just needs a slight adjustment and could be done trail side
Probably not the greatest example, getting gears just so can rank up there with finding that annoying creak for PITA never ending jobs.
It makes me laugh when people say that if they don’t know how to do something on their bike there is a you tube video to show them how . I recently watched a you tube video of a man juggling seven skittles but guess what it didn’t mean that I was able to do it myself .
Oh come on. I can't think of anything bike maintenance which requires the same sort of practice as a professional juggler or acrobat lol.
Chasing a thread, yeah maybe not something you should just try right off the bat on your 5 grand frame. Other than that? What? Bike mechs don't weld or braze, let a pro do that.
Pro bike mechanic here with a few observations.
There is very little on a modern bike thats complicated to do especially if you can refer to a Youtube video as well (or ask on here).
True. However the vast majority of bikes which come in are not modern bikes. They are ancient and abused Apollos, Carreras and Raleighs. If I service 100 bikes a month, I reckon maybe 1 in every 150 is a modern bike. Just because you, your mates and those you see at trail centres ride nice bikes, that doesn't mean that's what we get in the shop.
Qualifications.
A flippin' nightmare. Cytech, Velotech, Weldtech etc are not worth the paper in the real world. We advertised for a temporary mechanic to cover long tern sickness. I got a lad in for an interview and told him as part of the interview process I'd like him to service a bike for me. "No need mate, I'm Cytech 3 qualified" was the response. Well he came in, interviewed well then I picked the next bike out of the service rack for him to sort out. It was a 20ish year old Raleigh commuter. Not been ridden for the last 5 years at least, during which time it had been kept outside. The service instruction was "make roadworthy, max budget £50". I gave the lad the bike, told him he should do the work and he should price his time at £20/hr. After an hour we called it a day, he'd spent most of that time trying to get the canti brakes set up. He'd never seen a loose ball bottom bracket, cotter pins or a quill stem. We see more bikes with these on them than disc brakes.
Prices
The average price of a bike sold in the UK was £233 in 2014 and probably hasn't changed much since. Halfords sell 25% of all the bikes sold in the UK, probably more now Toys R Us has gone bang. There are an awful lot of bikes out there sold for less than £150 and guess what! They are the ones which need the most fixing because they are generally crap. How much do you think someone is willing to spend on servicing and repairing? Not much is the answer... And so many people think that bike servicing is easy. Well, often it is, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a value or can't be done badly or well. A few recent example...
Customer comes in with brake issue. Actually quite a nice bike. Built by her husband who is an engineer. Sorted the brake issue, also corrected the oval chainring which had been mounted 90' out.
Customer bought a bike from us then decided to fit a dropper. Bought a stealth dropper but the frame didn't have a hole for the hose. Customer uses an angle grinder to extend the seatpost slot all the way down the frame to get the hose in. Puts jubilee clips round seat tube to secure it all. Decides he doesn't like the bike so tries to return it to us for a refund. Gets very angry when we refuse.
Roadie with reasonable basic bike. Decides it's too heavy and will save weight by removing the seatclamp. Replaces it with 2 holes and self tappers. Isn't very talented with tools so the saddle is at about 20' from straight. Sensibly decides to get us to sort his gears.
Customer comes in with brake issues after fixing them themselves. Had fitted new v brake pads upside down so the curve of the pads is opposite to the curve of the wheel.
I could go on...
Prices and mechanic availability.
As above bikes are simple so should cost about 50p to fix. A customer comes in with 2 wheels. Can we remove both the cassettes and swap them over. So remove 2 cassettes and fit 2 cassettes. Sure we say, £4. Bloke starts ranting about how it's a 2 minute job and we have the tools so we should do it for free. Because of this mechanics wages are crap. I'm the workshop manager and I'm on under £9/hr. My partners 20 year old daughter is a waitress and her basic hourly rate is more than mine, plus she gets around £200/month in tips. I've only ever once been given a tip and that was for staying on for an extra half hour to fix a guys bike when he walked in at 2 minutes to closing time and needed the bike there and then to take it on holiday. I sorted the brakes and trued the wheels and sent him on his way with a bill for about a tenner. He tipped me £1. I was very happy!
So to stay afloat we reduced our number of mechanics this year after one of them left. Repair times went from around 3 days mid summer last year to maybe a week and a half this year. We lost at the most £500 of business. But we saved the salary (around £15500) plus the national insurance and pension contributions, so maybe £18000, which equates to maybe £28000 of takings.
TL:DR It's very hard to make a living fixing bikes. It's essentially seen as easy work of low value which anyone can do themselves. Until it goes wrong. This means there is no money to invest in training, tools, and spare bodies to react quickly. My skills are seen in the marketplace as being of less value than carrying plates of food. So the experienced people leave and are replaced by children. I'm trying to get out at the moment. I'll probably end up being a Tesco delivery driver working fewer hours for about £4k a year more.
^^Post of the day^^
^^Post of the day^^
Couldn't agree more !!!
Agreed post of the day from boris. I left the industry 18 years ago and it was the same back then, it really hasn't changed. As it happens I finished my cycle industry career at Halfords, that place done it for me. The attitude of some customers was appalling.
Boris for the win. Good (well sad reallt) to hear what reality is.
A flippin’ nightmare. Cytech, Velotech, Weldtech etc are not worth the paper in the real world
This is a situation that's the complete opposite of how it should be and smells of poor training, normally due to trying to squeeze 10 people per trainer.
The Velotech/weldtech quals were set up to try to combat that, and provide a bit of quality, but maybe they're failing too. It relies on thorough auditing of the training centres, which at the end of the day can be challenging.
The charity I used to work for considered tool hire at one point, as a community resource, but didn't move it any further as you need to understand how to best use the tools your borrowing, and that takes time. There was a high risk of damage due to misuse, so we didn't bother.
Mechanicing is seen as something relatively easy. bike clubs and specialist forums like this do foster that too, in the same way a petrolhead club would say an engine swap is a fairly simple job if you've the tools and bodies.
Also, dads and grandads remember repairing bikes back in the day, so it can't have changed too much. There will be a bit of masculine shove to be able to do these things too, in the same way most guys are expected to know how to fit a set of shelves.
This 'easy task that men don't want to give to experts' will also devalue the work being done.
Just went past one LBS and thought I'd nip in to see what they has as was passing, he's stopped selling bikes altogether as there's no money in it and just does servicing now.
He told me another shop that was about 4 x's the size of him in town had closed 2 weeks ago and one other went tail end of last year ...... 3 in one year.
Personally ... whilst the internet has it's uses in some ways I see it as the scourge of society.
Struggling U.K. retail chain Evans Cycles has been rescued, staffers of the 60-store cycles-only chain were told today.
The official announcement of the new owner will be made tomorrow, industry sources said.
Philip Green, maybe?
https://news.sky.com/story/halfords-puts-brakes-on-rescue-bid-for-evans-cycles-11535169
Mike Ashley appears to be the favourite though why that should be so as JD Sports are also still apparently in the race isn't clear.
Sold to Sports direct https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status/1057300123712212997?s=21
Interesting times for some of the brands/distributors in there at the moment...
Not Sports Direct!
What chance Donnay branded full susser for £150?
I feel for the staff that will lose their jobs.
Doesn't sound promising.
Urgh...
half of stores to close, I'd expect suppliers to be wanting stock back ASAP if it's not been paid for.
Not good
Dam this shitty software. I had a link that has disappeared.
What Muddy Fox for bike packing?
That’s crap IMO, use them lots
That's crap. I really like my one in Sheffield. Feel sorry for the staff.