My reverb i ordered 2 days ago, that showed a 1 month wait time, has been shipped already and i'm tracking it to me. Bonus.
i was expecting to have lost my cash based on the pessimistic forecasts of Evans impending demise.
i was expecting to have lost my cash based on the pessimistic forecasts of Evans impending demise.
They're nowhere close to demise and to be honest the constant negative press they're getting and the rumours is the thing fuewlling any decline, not the fact that thyey're asking for money.
Problem is that they've been static for a few years now. Opened a few new shops but the increased sales / profit have been swallowed up buy the increased costs and overheads so net, they're sitting completely still. The owners / investors aren't happy with "static" they want to see growth even though it's fairly well known that you can't have growth without at some point having a massive crash too.
Don;'t get me wrong, they've made some questionable business calls over the last few years - the employment of several high-ranking (read: expensive) retail consultants from outside the industry wasn't a great call because running 20 branches of B&Q is not the same as running 20 branches of a bike store.
But they've been going for decades and they're not about to fall by the wayside now. They just want / need the cash for investment to actually get the business back to generating profit rather than standing still. Got to spend money to make money!
Personally I'd go down the Rapha model - turn the shops into "clubhouses", stick a cafe in there, make them meeting points for rides and use that footfall to generate the sales. Inner city ones need to go down the route of being "commuter hubs" that can offer bike parking, repairs, showers, lockers and basic cafe food/coffee.
I should charge for that advice. £10 million should do it.
Honestly, anyone but SD. As I fear that anything that Evans do to ‘give back’ (run events etc) would stop. Pinnacle would be reduced to BSOs for the sub £100 market, I reckon they’d stop doing any bike over the c2w £1000 threshold too, if they kept doing that… and all the brands they currently own would start doing a cycle range, cheap yes, but dogshit quality. Ashley’s business model is to pare everything down to the absolute minimum (inc employee rights etc) to maximise profit. He’s very good at that, but not the sort of person I’d want to give a penny to. Yes the business would be saved, but everyone but Ashley loses out.
With that level of pessimism do you expect House Of Fraser to be reduced to selling school uniform quality blazers under the Lonsdale brand?
Can't see that happening, Pinnacle has no brand recognition outside of people who shop at Evans and people who read bike forums.
Apollo are like Black and Decker, rubbish, but your dad/brother/friend had one and it lasted for years so it can't be bad. The fact it was only used once a year to put up a shelf or ride to the shops and only lasted a month of actual usage is forgotten.
More likely to see Pinnale rebadged as Muddy Fox which has some nostalgia value for anyone mountaibiking in the 80's/90's like Saracen.
Personally I’d go down the Rapha model – turn the shops into “clubhouses”, stick a cafe in there, make them meeting points for rides and use that footfall to generate the sales. Inner city ones need to go down the route of being “commuter hubs” that can offer bike parking, repairs, showers, lockers and basic cafe food/coffee.
Not a great example...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/09/06/rapha-racing-slashes-jobs-hunt-profitability-walmart-heirs/
I do agree that doing more with the shops (especially the urban ones) is key, but only if they generate sales. Bike parking and coffee and cake won't pay the rent...
turn the shops into “clubhouses”, stick a cafe in there, make them meeting points for rides and use that footfall to generate the sales. Inner city ones need to go down the route of being “commuter hubs” that can offer bike parking, repairs, showers, lockers and basic cafe food/coffee.
That is a huge investment, do people actually want this? When was the last time you thought about heading to a location evans is for a cuppa or bit of cake? Does bike shopping make you hungry?
As for a commuter bike hub are they in the right place, how much storage and how many showers to cope with enough footfall between 7:30 and 8:45? That then becomes dead space for most of your operating hours in expensive retail locations. What is the average commuter going to pay for this service? How much are they going to spend in store on the way to work or the way home apart from a new tube which they would probably come to you for if it was close enough.
Everyone seems to know how to make money in the bike industry but the plans mostly seem full of holes.
Its all a bit like Blockbusters.
But this time its not videos vs. the internet.
Its shopping on the high-street vs. the internet.
Internet will win. Click for a price comparison, click to buy, turns up next day.
Internet will win. Click for a price comparison, click to buy, turns up next day.
First of all with bike stuff read any of the threads about ordering only to get the getting restocking email as they order it from the importer who turns out not to have any either....
Of the things I've recently got from Evans...
Gels/Powders etc - Order online and collect
Shoes - PITA to order online and tie up 3-4x the cost for a week while I decide which fits - walked out with shoes after 15mins - along with a pump and couple of other bits I needed as they had them at a fair price
Track Pump - wanted to lay my hands on them first
Got lid and some other bits from over the road at decathalon at the same time
Got a lock and some other little bits from them too.
Probably would have got a bike from them but it was at the year end time so stock was patchy in the sizes I wanted.
The high street can and will adapt, people will get burned with online and remember how good it was to be able to ask a question in store or take in the old one to compare too
Buy less, buy quality, buy local if possible. As with food, clothing etc. Communities need independent businesses and community trumps politics, social media and everything else.
What Boxelder says. Price isn’t everything.
They just want / need the cash for investment
They need cash to pay their bills. They have not been put on stop, pro forma etc for no reason.
Evans opening the Havant store 2 miles from me has reduced my CRC etc shopping massively. I pretty much always do click & collect from Evans now unless the price is too disparate. It’s very convenient and far less faff than the Post Office with regards to opening times etc.
Their clothing & spares stock seems to be about right for me, I’ve not really looked too much at the bike offerings as I don’t really ‘do’ complete builds.
It would be interesting to see what happens if Halfords buy them. As far back as 18-19 years ago when I was managing stores for them they were trying desperately to crack the ‘high end’ market who won’t buy from them, been doing it in & off for years so I could see a reshuffle, some of the cheaper Evans stuff dissapearing where it conflicts too much which Halfords core range & the higher end (over CTW voucher value) stuff staying with Evans.
So customers want convenience, unsurprisingly. I dont live in town and there is no parking in town, so the internet wins for me.
They have not been put on stop, pro forma etc for no reason.
The reason being all the rumours about them having no money, rather than actually defaulting on any payments?
Not a great example…
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/09/06/rapha-racing-slashes-jobs-hunt-profitability-walmart-heirs/
/a>I do agree that doing more with the shops (especially the urban ones) is key, but only if they generate sales. Bike parking and coffee and cake won’t pay the rent…
Oh believe me I'm well aware of Rapha's woes! Again, the investors are after a quick profit; they've seen a brand that is sitting there fairly static (and with some of the clubhouses losing money) and done the magic snip, snip, snip to remove the "non-profit" bits. Rapha is a funny one though - ultimately once people have bought some cycle clothing they have most of what they need for a few years - I've got Rapha kit that is years old and still in perfect condition - so they don't need to go to the shop or online and buy stuff all the time. You therefore need something else to get the customer to keep coming in, to keep spending. Events, travel, social - done right that *should* tick all the boxes.
Evans is the same, it just needs something other than "oh we sell bikes and clothing and spares" because loads of places do that including the internet...
Haven't seen any more news on this but their stock keeps getting pushed further and further back or some cancelled altogether ... this may be items that maybe production hadn't started so they were able to do so.
I'm after a Pinnacle Arkose 2018 - either a 2 or 3 in small size .... neither of which have been in stock for months ... the 3 was showing delivery for the 4/11 for ages but today has now been pushed back to 02/12 and the 2 which was showing end Nov is now grayed out altogether so I guess they won't be arriving at all.
I'm sure their lack of stock of sale-able items hasn't helped their current situation which I'm guessing may be due to not being able to pay suppliers but if 2018 models aren't due for delivery until beginning of December when everyone else's 2019 models are in the shops would have thought it'll be a tough sell but guess we'll have to wait and see.
Was looking at a Camelbak Mule online earlier but none in stock for another month. Cheaper at Halfords and can pick up tomorrow...
Gossip is halfords confirmed. Might just be gossip though. In edinburgh they are less than 50 metres away from each other (cycle republic)
Well I decided not to cancel my order and rely on card protection and I was in no rush. The Reverb turned up last week rather than the 30th. Picked it up in store where service was way better than the last few times I’d been in there.
Gossip is halfords confirmed. Might just be gossip though.
They may still be interested but the sale process isn't concluded yet and there are other potential buyers. So yes, gossip.
They may still be interested but the sale process isn’t concluded yet and there are other potential buyers. So yes, gossip.
But it's fake news and an old story?
I couple of mates of mine own an e-retail-business. They have grow every year since they started in the mid 00's and tell me that physical-retailers can't compete except for certain very niche stuff.
Every LBC near me has closed down.
With the exception of buying some lights and tyres last year (from Evans), I've bought everything online for last 10 years or so.
I can wrench myself so don't need anyone like Evans to butcher my bike 😀
It would be interesting to see what happens if Halfords buy them. As far back as 18-19 years ago when I was managing stores for them they were trying desperately to crack the ‘high end’ market
Shudder
Halfords used to be a byworld for shitty bikes and bike parts back in the 90's.
Having said that they do sell so good and cheap tools now. I got a 100 piece socket set from there which is very good quality.
Shoes – PITA to order online and tie up 3-4x the cost for a week while I decide which fits – walked out with shoes after 15mins – along with a pump and couple of other bits I needed as they had them at a fair price
Almost all retailers offer free (postage paid) returns now.
My mate sells shoes on his e-shop. It's very common and normal for a customer to order 2 or even 3 different pairs. The keep the one that fits and send the other ones back free.
You gotta get with the 21st century! 😀
I've been waiting for some Shimano RP90 Road Shoes which were due in this week but pushed back to mid Nov due to a delay with the distributer. Made contact today and changed this order to the New Shimano RC7 as they are in stock and are ready for collection next week.
I am however still waiting on a separate order for a Kask Protone which I am wondering will even show up.....
These products are both popular models and generally in stock most places so it's clear there are issues going on in the background.
I can wrench myself so don’t need anyone like Evans to butcher my bike
And that's the real crux of the issue I feel, it seems to be an increasingly rare thing to find a LBS that can offer anything that an online store can't. Mechanicing is the main thing they do that differentiates them and it's a sad fact that most of them are awful at it.
For the level of savings available online, an LBS can't afford to compete with online but can offer a service to the customer that gets them a piece of the pie. Servicing, fitting parts, repairs etc. are where they should be focussing and doing it to a level that gains and retains customers.
In-house fork and shock servicing should be a thing but most places just send them out to a specialist.. I can do that myself, get a better service at a cheaper price.. if i could get my forks serviced to a high standard in-house either while i wait or in a day or 2 then i'd much rather do that.
If I could rely on LBS mechanics to competently fit a headset or pressfit BB then I'd rather pay them to do it than fork out for the tools to do it myself, but my experience over the years is that LBS's are universally useless for anything other than the absolute basics and even then they often screw up to the point that I've given up trying and just do it myself or send parts to a specialist that i trust to do the job properly..
Sad that it's come to this point but it won't get better until LBS owners change and adapt to the new normal.
Bikefit's and (quality)mechanicing are the only places they can differentiate I think...
I don't know what the unique point is of Evans, especially in the high street. They're not super cheap. They have a massive collection of Hybrids and cheap road bikes but little else. Staff in the local Manchester Deansgate shop didn't seem too interested in my questions, I was floating around for ages and they staff were nattering to the mechanics.
Other shops were offering free services and stocking obscure brands, rather than the Trek and other big names which are the same RRP no matter where you go. Asked about some bikes (they dont stock Genesis in the shop anymore) on the website and was told I could "order" them to the shop for £50, refundable if I bought the bike. That's not a lot of use, I'm going to the shop to see if I like a bike, not spend money and walk away not liking it or it was the wrong size (I tend to float between XL and L depending on the frame geometry).
I don't know what the draw is, especially if spending big money and buying a bike.
I’m after a Pinnacle Arkose 2018 – either a 2 or 3 in small size …. neither of which have been in stock for months … the 3 was showing delivery for the 4/11 for ages but today has now been pushed back to 02/12 and the 2 which was showing end Nov is now grayed out altogether so I guess they won’t be arriving at all
Yeah I've seen that myself for a Large Arkose, mind Dec availability.
Sounds like they are trying to keep stock volumes as lean as possible. Maybe they are in trouble?
I'll definitely not pre-order a bike from them now.
I don’t know what the draw is, especially if spending big money and buying a bike.
None at all in my experience, tried to spend £4.5k on a BMC road bike in Evans and not only did they try to sell me a 58cm (I'm 6'5"), I asked about changing bars/stem and possibly crank for the correct length, all the various bits and pieces to get it to fit right and was told they'd happily fit what i wanted, but i would have to pay retail on everything i wanted fitted, plus fitting and I would get all the bits they took off in a bag. When I expressed a wee bit of surprise that they wouldn't entertain part-exchange of the (brand new, remember) parts they took off against the replacement parts, their response was that no bike shop would do that..!!
Suffice it to say I now have a lovely Canyon. Says it all really, Canyon were easier to deal with changing parts for fit than Evans were, happy to ship out different bars/stem if i needed them and return the fitted ones.
The problem with taking stuff off a bike and then selling is a complicated one, parts like chainsets and components are already heavily discounted so discounting a 'new' part basically means you make no money on it or you never end up selling it and its just money caught up in stock. Most people don't want to buy 'new' stuff thats been taken off a bike. Not to mention the issues with items that are oe only as often happens with stems and bars which are harder to price and impossible to sell.
Also it needs to be put into stock and so it needs a code, suddenly you have multiple codes for very similair items and that create confusion and costs time and money. Its not as black and white as you'd imagine. If Canyon take a crank off a bike then I imagine they can fit it to another bike.
Fair point, but it still lost them a sale which was my point, not argueing that it makes life a little more tricky for them but it's one of the reasons why they are in the situation they are in now surely.?
Offering nothing over what I can get cheaper online is what's running LBS's into the ground no.?
#EDIT : And having worked in bike shops in my youth they were always willing to change parts to fit a bike as the customer wanted, parts went into a pot rather than into stock and were either sold during the end of year sale, or used to change parts on the next customers bike for their fit, bike shops need to expect to have to work a wee bit for their customers, it's not a supermarket.
I can wrench myself so don’t need anyone like Evans to butcher my bike
Most people - the vast majority of cyclists in fact - cannot do this or at least not to any great degree of competency. Ironically, the prevalence of weird "standards" and proprietary parts has actually worked in favour of most shops since most customers aren't going to fork out for a bearing press or a Chris King hub tool themselves.
Even for the more basic tasks, most people will take their bike in rather than fix it themselves. I do the odd bit of ride-leading on various events and the number of people with fairly minor mechanicals who will just flag me down, pass the bike to me and say "sort this, I don't know anything about it" is unbelievable.
One woman on the last ride I did had turned her bike upside down and then just got on the phone to the mechanics. She didn't even know how to remove the wheel. Sadly, that's the level that the majority of riders are at. That's why shops like Evans and Halfords survive. It's fairly wealthy but fairly clueless people who go "I need a bike" and they don't ask complicated questions or want bits swapping over or tyres converting to tubeless or Di2 programming with synchro shift, they want a bike that works and more or less fits and that they can ride out of the shop.
it’s not a supermarket.
Evans is to some extent, I know plenty of smaller bike shops that have done parts swaps but only when the margin works for them and when you can do the value calc there and then. Evans probably did loose the sale, but the bike will be on the website and when they drop the price in 2 months time they will probably make more than messing around with you. - Blunt version.
On the mechanics bit exactly what crazy-legs says
Yeah it's true that some people don't know one end of a screw driver from another. As you say many middle classes and especially women just don't get exposed to using hand tools.
And yeah there are some special tools that are unlikely to be worth getting, but even things like headsets can be pressed it by jury rigging a bolt, large washes and nuts.
I'm certainly not the most practised or knowledgable on bikes but info is easy to find on the internet or in the Big Blue Book. I've never had something I couldn't eventually sort myself, except fork service of course, which just posted away in the past. Only had to walk home from a ride once when I was dumb enough to forget a presta valve extension many years ago.
But I'm lucky enough to have been exposed to working on bikes since a kid and got handy with tools working on cars and then servicing downhole tools in the oil business for a few years.
Yeah it’s true that some people don’t know one end of a screw driver from another. As you say many middle classes and especially women just don’t get exposed to using hand tools.
Oh wow 🤣🤣🤣
Despite being able to do just about everything on my bike I still see the value in shops doing service, sometimes the job a professional can do is better, sometimes the cost of paying somebody is worth it for the time you can spend doing something else. Plenty of people I know are happy that they can drop a bike off and pick it up ready to ride.
Im not surprised. Went in today to the Nottingham one as I want some new knee pads. Web says several styles and brands in stock. They actually had 2 pairs in the whole shop. Complete waste of time
One woman on the last ride I did had turned her bike upside down and then just got on the phone to the mechanics. She didn’t even know how to remove the wheel. Sadly, that’s the level that the majority of riders are at.
That's kind of scary. I have had a few years away from cycling but when I used to do group rides in never occurred to me that some of the group would be unable to fix a flat, except one girl who was quite new whose bf was tasked with that stuff.
But then cycling is more middle class and popular now.
But these people will get shock because a geared bike isn't like a modern car you can 99% drive between yearly service with no issue lol.
sometimes the job a professional can do is better, sometimes the cost of paying somebody is worth it for the time you can spend doing something else.
Well that might be true if you were a very busy person whose time was a lot of money, but on the other hand how are they finding time to ride anyway? 😀
Bikes mechanically are a step below cars, there are no real mysteries to them. There is nothing you can't really get to and diagnose and fix. Shifter are complex but invariably get replaced as a unit.
...and you average Evans mech is some 20 year old not some Team Sky professional 😀
But it’s fake news and an old story?
Fair call. It appeared to be when I asked about it. The original £10m re-finance process was ongoing then afaik. Not long after that I went on holiday, while away read the news that Evans was up for sale and decided to generally ignore it for a while, since the only people that know the detail of what's going on are a small team at the top of Evans and PWC.
You would think there is mileage in being a good lbs? My local is always fully booked, I know simple job I could do but I needed my tubeless sorted, I got most of it but everytime I try to refit the tyre I get more sealant on me than in the tyre, 4 week wait.
If they just reduced shop space and open up more workshop space? And actually get a reputation for good repairs on the day maybe it’s good money Or bike storage, I would happily pay £10 a day for secure insured bike storage in bad weather who wants to change a tube after work due to a flat when Evans or another lbs could do this? I say this as I had a double flat in the pouring rain, walked past a Halfords and nope too busy, walked past a hawk cycle nope we don’t have the time, a mobile cycle mechanic who has a small workshop about 2 miles from home sorted it out and it meant I didn’t get my work clothes dirty or trying to change them on a busy road, I can’t be the only one to have this happen.
Put everything else bar essentials online and have a click collect service.
I could be wrong but it could work!
But then cycling is more middle class and popular now.
When was cycling not middle class? It's been there for years
Well that might be true if you were a very busy person whose time was a lot of money, but on the other hand how are they finding time to ride anyway?
By managing their time well so that they are not spending it fiddling with bikes.
At the moment I don't have the space to fiddle with my bike, so if I need something done I can drop it off and it will come back sorted. Perfect solution there. I know it takes a lot of work to get your STW/Scouts Bike Maintenance badge but deciding not to do it all yourself is fairly normal and nothing to really be worried about.
…and you average Evans mech is some 20 year old not some Team Sky professional
Really? They all looked a bit older when I last went it. Nothing wrong with being young and experienced though. I guess the average evans mechanic gets through a heap of more interesting and complex bike fixes than the average pro team mechanic working on 1 kind of bike and a huge box full of free parts.
Yeah I’ve seen that myself for a Large Arkose, mind Dec availability.
Sounds like they are trying to keep stock volumes as lean as possible. Maybe they are in trouble?
Or, maybe we had some parts delays like forks that are on really long leadtimes.
Realised I haven't bugged Jameso for a Jones Pinnacle for a while. One guaranteed staff sale if you make one James. A Jonnacle, you can have that for free.
When was cycling not middle class? It’s been there for years
Well that's a fair point.
My perception was that in 80's and 90's it was mostly kids and working class people riding to work. Yes I know there were recreational riders but it was very rare to see cyclists on expensive bikes in lycra. If you rode a bike to work it was probably 'cos you were poor.
I lived in Australia in mid 00's and opened my eyes to a more healthy and pluralistic cycling culture. Loads of random and different people who would go on group rides at weekends or ride on the excellent cycle paths to work. Nothing grim about it. There would be one fast group ride on Sunday which could have hundreds of riders. Never seen anything like that back in the UK.
Then I moved back to the UK and Team GB/Sky took off and now I see loads of middle classes on bikes in lycra and stuff. Cycling now is somewhat glamorous like a new golf, and I read about friction between motorists and cyclists because the number of cyclists have grown so much the last few years.
a Jones Pinnacle
Ha. Have you ridden a Chromium yet? Different, yet not so different around town, sort of.
Had a few in, they do look nice. Might see what size 26" tyre I could get in back and then put fat front on one......😀
