[Closed] No UKGE in 2016

Si Paton step forward , British Enduro Series on its way?

Si Paton step forward , British Enduro Series on its way?

A BDS round next year costs £95. And you think Enduro is expensive?

i wonder if the three day riding thing is anything to do with the numbers being down
I am a master for example which is probably the biggest cat in enduro and I much prefer pmba racing (one day) as I am at an age where work kids etc makes the commitment of steves races a bit much
All the best for the future though chap

I am a master for example which is probably the biggest cat in enduro and I much prefer pmba racing (one day) as I am at an age where work kids etc makes the commitment of steves races a bit much

I think this is definitely an issue worldwide - in just about every series, this has been mentioned.

Mainly it was the FF+insurance thing that put me off, but all I want is the more laid back "mates racing" vibe. Wearing or having to carry a FF over some 40km course just didn't seem right.

Also as stated, multi day events are ok once or twice a year for average joes like me, but a whole series of them is maybe too much time commitment for most?

That's what happens when you create a racing series for old men...

🙂
The masters are usually faster than the seniors! A lot of last years fast masters are now in elite

I will be sad if nothing replaces it but if we have a new series I will be happy. The whole direction Parr was taking the series seem to be at odds with the origin of UK Enduro racing.

Same here, myself and a few others decided that we wouldnt race it next year. Always raced a few rounds each year since 2012 but only been able to do two this year due to injury.
I was planning to do more laid back events like mini enduro and red kite next year.
I have done a few different series (Irish, Italian, EWS, Tweedlove) and I think its better with no seeding, practice saturday/race sunday with no unofficial practice allowed.

Oy Hels and MC, fancy running a national series?

The 3 day thing really just felt like spreading it further to justify for the cost as much as anything else. Seeding felt the same to me- they could say "2 days racing" instead of "1 day's racing and 1 day's practice" but it was effectily not much different. It's like those music festivals that swell to 3 days to increase the price, then you realise it's basically the same amount of good bands, spread thinner and you just have to spend an extra day trying not to need a poo.

(aside... Seeding's crap in enduro though, because of the variation of stages... At inners I seeded badly because seeding was done on a very pedally, untechnical trailcentre stage... Then spent all day passing everyone in front of me because they couldn't ride the natural or difficult stages- they were just fast at the pedalling. Which was quite fun but if I'd been taking it seriously, it'd have been annoying to lose all that time)

Golden rule of uk enduro- if innerleithen mtb racing didn't do it in 2011, it's probably shit 😆

Northwind
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The reality is it folded due to lack of riders, caused in the main by the insurance issue. That was a debacle start to finish. When it was announced I scratched out a couple of basic numbers using the overalls from 2014 and it was pretty clear at that time the number of 1 race riders would plummet as a single race went to over £150*, putting the whole series in jeopardy. That happened.

Now we have the interesting option of a BDS clone, but that again risks alienating the one race riders that are the icing on the enduro cake. Without them you can't fill a race, and if you cant fill a race, you cant run a series long term. Enduro is all about running what you normally ride (to some extent), and so its appealing to a 1 time a year rider, unless you price it the same as a decent hotel at a trail centre in which case kipping in a field with no facilities becomes less appealing. MUCH less appealing.

* The cost needn't have gone that high, and thats the main issue as to why it was such a balls up. Someone should have thought this through in advance and if insurance was really necessary come up with several options at various prices including an option for a weekend cover PAYG type thing.

Ben insurance could be had at <20 quid

But you are right it was never thought through properly

Nortwind, the 3 day thing worked really well for me it was a great excuse for a long weekend away with your mates and without fridary, practising a 40k loop with 1000+m climbing then racing it all the next day, meant I was less than optimal on Sunday!
While qualifying works really well ime, far more likely to have overtakes/holdups on raceday without it
At the same time those that couldnt do the 3 days were at a disadvantage and I think that put plenty off too.

Ultimately I'm just sad, there's now no national* series as challenging for me to look forward too

* when I say nation I mean UK, like most of the people in Britain I don't live in Scotland!

I still say you should all come race at Dyfi in a couple of weeks and give your opinions after!
Actually Ben you should definitely ride this one too 😉

Ben insurance could be had at <20 quid

I know, I insured my whole team for £60, but if the organisers make it hard to establish whether your insurance covers you at £20 then the insurance is £90+ through their 'preferred' supplier by default, which is stupid.

I am a master for example which is probably the biggest cat in enduro and I much prefer pmba racing (one day) as I am at an age where work kids etc makes the commitment of steves races a bit much

The whole usp for enduro is it's dh for munters to unfit to race xc.Having a series aimed at and based around a handful of elite/wannabe's instead of "average joe who doesn't live and breathe racing 7 days a week" was always going to end badly.
I think enduro will be stronger in the uk for the loss of UKGE with more accessible regional events.

Shame about this, best enduro races going IMO, best timing, best format, upto 3 days riding, 6 timed stages and seeding meant that you had clear track for your timed runs and if your paying to race that's really what its all about....this year the stages were better than ever as well.

I enjoy the Scottish but hate the long queues for a early start time, you should be able to select these when you enter, also the more technical stages can be a bit 'busy' due to all abilities and ages mixed in together.

Ard Rock is the benchmark though...superb!

The whole usp for enduro is it's dh for munters to unfit to race xc

i don't think i'd have been quite as blunt as you Rorschach, but i think you've got a point.

The guys and girls and the sharp end of the races are extremely good riders. often they're people capable of winning Dh races, they're just looking for something a bit different.

but it seems there aren't/weren't enough of those people entering the races. Steve Parr really didn't seem to want average punters at his races, which is fine, it's his baby, but here we are.

I dont agree with rorschach at all that the UK will be better off without UKGE and a national series

it means theres no stepping stone to the EWS the way there is with the BDS to WC DH and as pointed out before BDS rounds are more expensive than UKGE

Ultimately though without enough punters it couldnt work, possibly steve didnt look after the weekend warrior types enough, but I think it was that and the insurance and how it was handled that really was the problem

hopefully someone will come in and fill the gap, especially if the UCI get on board with enduro then BC might come back on etc

our national DH series does an excellent job of fostering talent and producing DH world Cup and Champ winners, I think we need that for enduro too.

Have to agree with most comments, think ive raced 7 or 8 in total, Innerleithen in 2012 being the first, and still one of the best races I've ever done. Hamsterly being the last, and potentially one of the worst.

Whilst the ukge were never going to get it right for everyone, they sometimes didn't help themselves with poor communication, such as race entry dates, and the whole insurance debate.

However, I do think the moves for full face helmets were a good idea. I remember riding the Dyfi round last year. Stage 1 had an open track bit nearer the bottom of the stage, properly flat out. I was in a half shell and genuinely would have really hurt myself if I had binned it. This is also where I agree with the insurance part as well. Although maybe they should have increased entry cost and sorted insurance themselves...allowing more one race entries.

Regardless, the series was amazing, and had a great time racing it. I cannot thank the UKGE team enough for their time and effort, and hopefully they will have success with their one off events next year. If the races were shit, they wouldn't have had 250+ people attending every event.

it means theres no stepping stone to the EWS

Full faces really do depend on how and what you are racing

Stage 1 had an open track bit nearer the bottom of the stage, properly flat out. I was in a half shell and genuinely would have really hurt myself if I had binned it.

This is also where I agree with the insurance part as well.

I think anyone considering running a national series should probably listen to all the views expressed.

I think this is the perfect time for British enduro to have a real think about what it wants and more importantly what the customer wants. I don't think it needs to be so heavily driven by EWS ideas as the UK has different requirements.

If UK Enduro wants BC on-board then it really needs to emphasis the XC side more than the DH. And I think that would also help bring in more weekend warrior types, albeit at the expense of annoying some who want super hard DH type courses.

If UK Enduro wants BC on-board then it really needs to emphasis the XC side more than the DH.

But you may as well just race xc then

It's sufficiently different from DH to make it worthwhile

I was in a half shell and genuinely would have really hurt myself if I had binned it.

Don't race on the road then, lycra shorts and t-shirt, stock helmets and speeds around 50 mph all done inches from people all around you.

Anyway it's your health if you are concerned you can always back off.

The other option in future is that if organisers don't enforce FF then the course design can ensure that stupid speeds are impossible.

So Dragon you want enduro races that are low tech and slow?

That sounds duller than xc !

perhaps you can rely on people making a judgement about a stage themselves?

It's sufficiently different from DH to make it worthwhile

So Dragon you want enduro races that are low tech and slow?

That sounds duller than xc !

Struggling to see how your version of Enduro is different to DH.

That 'non-peddaling Enduro' is basically multi track DH.

kimbers - Member

But you may as well just race xc then

except xc races are won/decided on the climbs.

So Dragon you want enduro races that are low tech and slow?

yes, that's exactly what he said.

I never said I wanted it to be low tech and slow. I just think if you want Weekend Warrior types and also BC support then keeping on emphasizing how Enduro is super hard and like DH isn't going to help.

I think this is the main problem no one actually can define Enduro properly. See how it all kicked off as a result of that Stage at the UK round of EWS. The UK needs to define what Enduro is, and that doesn't have to be what EWS is.

That 'non-peddaling Enduro' is basically multi track DH.

you can still have pedally bits on a technical stage, not to mention the 30-40km to get round the course, being fresh after a transition is really important.

the great thing about enduro stages is that you can mix the fast flowing, pedally stuff with harder techier stuff, thats what makes it so much fun

when everyone was bitching about stage 6 being too long at EWS Tweedlove this year I thought it was a good tough challenge, worthy of a world class event

ahwiles - Member

except xc races are won/decided on the climbs.

Guess you didn't watch world champs then?

nope, i was of course generalising, but you knew that.

what's a typical xc race lap? - 8k(ish)? 30mins(ish)? compare the time spent climbing against the time spent descending, and you'll get the point if you want to.

(hint) the point is this: Enduro racing, and Xc racing, are different things.

even an [i]easy[/i] enduro race, is different from xc racing, perhaps even more so...

it's really interesting reading Jared Graves blogs, he was winning and podiuming in Aus national XC's, his plan was to go so hard on the technical and downs that he could hold off on the climbs. Bearing in mind how insanely fit he was/is and how technically good he is. He didn't win that one, the true XC boys were always just a bit quicker up.

I think this is the main problem no one actually can define Enduro properly. See how it all kicked off as a result of that Stage at the UK round of EWS. The UK needs to define what Enduro is, and that doesn't have to be what EWS is.

Go ahead and define then.......No one is in a place to define what it is aside from race organisers, as they are organising races. If you want to define it, go and sort a race out.

Jared has also represented Aus in 4X (winning a world series) and BMX and has podiumed at DH world cups.
Not perhaps the best example of an XCer doing well in enduro. He does well at everything but his roots are in gravity racing (4X).

Not perhaps the best example of an XCer doing well in enduro.

what's a typical xc race lap? - 8k(ish)? 30mins(ish)?

kimbers - Member

when everyone was bitching about stage 6 being too long at EWS Tweedlove this year I thought it was a good tough challenge, worthy of a world class event

Nobody complained about the length! It was that so much of that length was on flat canal paths and blue route. It was just a transition to broon troot that happened to have a timer at the start, they might as well have added the climb to the mast. Stage 8 was long- I think longer in fact? But it was also a logical, worthy stage.

dont get me wrong 8 was much more fun! 6 meant keeping it flat out for a long time before hitting the ewok village? stuff at the end, which wouldve been tough after that much pedalling, seemed like a good challenge to me, even if it wouldve absolutely shagged me

ahwiles - Member
nope, i was of course generalising, but you knew that.

what's a typical xc race lap? - 8k(ish)? 30mins(ish)? compare the time spent climbing against the time spent descending, and you'll get the point if you want to.

(hint) the point is this: Enduro racing, and Xc racing, are different things.

I don't believe that I suggested they weren't?

i was trying (badly, it seems) to drag the thread back towards the ... oh forget it, i'm off for a ploughman's.

is a shandy an acceptable alternative to a proper pint if i'll be going back to work afterwards?

Bearing in mind our continental cousins invented the term and the format it seems daft, arrogant and typically British to try and define our own version of Enduro, FFS just stick with what people know....that is timed tech, DH type stuff with comfortable transitions taking in a good days riding.

Leave helmet concerns to individual riders, leave insurance to the riders and have waivers for the organisers....if you want to race then these are big boy rules, you take responsibility for your safety and insurance not the organiser, no one is putting a gun to people's heads and forcing them to race stuff they're not comfortable on.

At some of the European Enduro Series and the EWS they have had uplift services running to the tops of some stages, I was under the impression Enduro was like DH but by making it multi stage you take away some of the pressure cooker environment of DH with its single race run only format....the novelty of Enduro was that you could have a bad stage and yet still be in with a shout as there were more to come....that was it's USP from DH as far as I was concerned, with DH if you balls up your run you've lost and it's a weekend wasted, Enduro took that pressure away and created a nicer atmosphere as a result.
As a pleasant benefit of transition stages I suppose rider fitness comes into play more than DH but results from the EWS don't bear this out as even Sam Hill of flat pedals and a dislike of pedaling got into the top ten at the NZ/Rotorua round and Wyn Masters got on the podium so either Enduro racers aren't as fit as they think they are or DH riders aren't given enough credit for their fitness.

Either way, a softer UK defined scene with a bias toward XC would see me lose interest, that's not why I ride and given the popularity of 140mm to 160mm bikes I'm guessing most other riders winch up the climbs in order to enjoy the downs too.
Sad to see an organiser go out of business, the UKGEs I did in 2011 and 2012 were great.