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@mudrider - no nothing to do with suspension. My rigid bikes benefit as much from similar geometry.
LLS and pop aren’t mutually exclusive. BMX style fast handling would be a nightmarish handful in lumpy tech with very limited traction.
Looks fun.
Horrible, but fun!
BMX style fast handling would be a nightmarish handful in lumpy tech with very limited traction.
Did me well enough on the Naughty Northumbrian. FS BMX is a thing now too albeit more for bike parks.
Yes - again it’s a small thing though.
There’s some interesting custom bikes built in New England area, Beast of the East or Jones-y ideas with higher BBs and bash guards. Woods bikes. I always liked the look of them.
Have you got any links or pics?
@bruisewillies - the were a few appearing on MTBR years back. Wolfhound are in Oregon rather than the east but he makes some interesting bikes - https://www.wolfhoundcycles.com/bikes. No many pics of the kind I had in mind though.
FS BMX is a thing now too albeit more for bike parks.
Deathpack Bikes as a project has always looked to me to be just heaps of fun and pretty cool.
This was a few years ago, but putting up in case anyone hasn't seen it. Good deal of chat with Geoff Apps near the start.
Years ago I visited Geoff Apps' house for a coffee. Twenty of us - and he'd borrowed mugs from all the neighbours to enable to this.
My abiding memory is a living room filled with top-end HiFi speakers. Geoff used this setup to listen to steam train recordings. Very impressive.
There seems to be a consensus here that the Cleland is like a Land Rover, a low-maintenance all-weather off-road vehicle made for travelling reliably through the landscape. Meanwhile, a mountain bike is more like a rally car, for adrenalin fuelled excitement, thrills and spills and racing.
Interestingly with automobiles, rally cars are relatively rare whilst Land Rovers are commonplace. But the opposite case applies to off-road bicycles. Therefore, could there be an untapped market for a mountain bike equivalent of a Land Rover? Maybe a utilitarian machine those who need a more practical way to cycle through the countryside than is currently available. i.e., canal boat residents or farm workers?
a more practical way to cycle through the countryside than is currently available. i.e., canal boat residents or farm workers?
A pony rather than a race horse!
There seems to be a consensus here that the Cleland is like a Land Rover, a low-maintenance all-weather off-road vehicle made for travelling reliably through the landscape. Meanwhile, a mountain bike is more like a rally car, for adrenalin fuelled excitement, thrills and spills and racing.
Interestingly with automobiles, rally cars are relatively rare whilst Land Rovers are commonplace.
I guess the question you've got to ask is how many Land Rovers are used for their intended purpose.
You could probably ask the same about mountain bikes.
Therefore, could there be an untapped market for a mountain bike equivalent of a Land Rover?
You're aware no doubt that the last big trend in "off-road" cycling was making road bikes slightly less shit to ride on bridleways. Or from the other direction; making mountain bikes less capable on bridleways. I mean, there have been threads on here saying (with a straight face presumably) that gravel bikes can make even the dullest bridleway into something "fun".
Personally I find the Cleland has looks that only is inventor could love and for me at least, I'll admit that in order to want to ride it, a bike has to look the part, sorry if that's shallow or too subjective, but its the truth. There wasn't a massive market for them first time around, I doubt that's changed
I think a rigid mtb with decent mudguards, tubeless tyres, and a rack would fulfil the utilitarian/land rover analogy of moving through the landscape. Any wheel size would do too.
I guess the question you’ve got to ask is how many Land Rovers are used for their intended purpose.
You could probably ask the same about mountain bikes.
Though the 'Chelsea Tractor' analogy wouldn't transfer to bicycles, there are plenty of environmentally minded people who see the bicycle as part of their lifestyle.
So a well designed functional off-road bicycle could be viewed as being environmentally aspirational, even if it is never used for it's intended purpose?
"Personally I find the Cleland has looks that only is inventor could love and for me at least, I’ll admit that in order to want to ride it, a bike has to look the part, sorry if that’s shallow or too subjective, but its the truth. There wasn’t a massive market for them first time around, I doubt that’s changed."
My thinking for a Land Rover equivalent bicycle would not be a copy of an existing Cleland, though it could adapt some of the most practical aspects like enclosed brakes /gears, together with other useful components, like parallelogram suspension seat-posts. However, it must be functional, low-maintenance and all weather. Maybe a lightweight off-road version of the bikes used by cycle share schemes.
With regards to the look of such a bike, that would depend on the demographic it is aimed at. Whilst there might be some interest from current mountain bikers, a Land Rover equivalent bicycle might best suit people who are currently put off from cycling off-road.
But the opposite case applies to off-road bicycles.
I get the impression though that's the analogie isn't that great.
Cleland appears to be getting off the beaten or even ANY track.
So bobbed rangerovers and rockcrawlers are maybe a bit more analogous.
I think they look rediculous... And also like a laugh. But I reckon almost all full suss bikes look full on shithouse so I might not be the best judge.