modern enduro bike geo on older bikes…your thoughts

Don't know about the Pivot but my 2020 Orange Stage 5 is right up there with modern geometry. It hasn't changed much in the last 3/4/5 years once manufacturers caught up.

Controversial opinion, but depending on where, what and how you're riding, modern geometry isn't always better.

However, as stated about the last 4 years or so have not been that dramatic in terms of geometry evolution 

2017/2018 was when some forward thinking manufacturers updated geometry with slacker head angles / steeper seat angles / longer reach. But not all of them were up to date then - Santa Cruz among others took a few more years I’d say. 

If geometry Geeks is correct then the Firebird is fairly modern. Reach seems about right per size / 64 degree headangle is decent for trail or enduro and a 76 degree seat angle is relatively modern. Some manufacturers will be steeper again though.

Chainstays look a little short for a 29er and on an enduro bike. 

Compared to a 2013 bike it will be more stable and planted and generally faster.

Depending on what you ride this could be good or bad. If you still ride stuff you rode many years ago and that was mostly bridle ways then maybe it’ll make those things more boring. But as bikes have got better I’ve ridden much more technically demanding trails - and my skills have gone up. The way I ride is more aggressive and proactive. 

Controversial opinion, but depending on where, what and how you're riding, modern geometry isn't always better.

However, as stated about the last 4 years or so have not been that dramatic in terms of geometry evolution 

+1

Do you actually want everything slacked out to 11 anyway?  Those Wrecker frames at On-One are tempting me but on balance I quite like that my Scandal is a bit more nimble and still makes mooorland doubletrack fun rather than being a one trick pony for only the roughest / steepest descents.  And The Vitus Escarpe isn't quite full enduro so still allows a bit of uphill fun (although it's no XC machine, it's still just a hobbled Sommet).

Evolution wise, some brands went long and slack very quickly, Specialized opened the floodgates back in ~2005 with the Enduro, then the SL dropped the head angle to 66, then the Pitch that was based off it, and the XL had a ~500mm reach. It took a decade for that to converge with 29ers. But peripheral "standards" aside  great bikes from as fat back as 2015 are still great. They might lack UDH, or have ugly cable routing but for a lot of brands that got in early geometry hasn't changed much since then.

You can tell nothing new has happened in 'trail' MTB for a while because marketing budgets have all been diverted towards other stuff like fat bikes, gravel bikes, disk brakes on road bikes, e-bikes and even 'down country' as otherwise there's been little reason other than just buying new stuff to really want to buy anything in the 140-160mm range.

Recommendations welcome for a carbon enduro 29

Geometron

 trail bike

Geometron g13

and reasons.

Modern angles in a slightly older package. Often with fancy parts. Hence Good value.

I've had my g13 since 2017 and it's still pretty much modern angles. I've had a good looks round and there is nothing I'd gain by replacing it other than 30-40mm travel and possibly losing 1kg.

I was keen on a mega tower, but they are within 1kg weight by the time I put preference of parts on.

They are aluminium so not repairable as suck but Nickolai have made me.new parts when I've trashed them and mojo have been very helpful with small bits.

If the price is right, the Pivot doesn't seem like a crazy idea. Suspension hasn't changed enough to matter in that time. If it has a Fox X2 on the back, it might be worth a degree of caution though/see if it's been updated under warranty, etc. 

The geo would be a bit more stretched out on a new model, but I don't think it's much of a concern. Coming from a 2013 bike, it might actually be preferable and closer to what you know anyway. The only potential drawback I can see with the geometry is the short chainstays and slacker seat tube angle won't climb like some modern enduro rigs can. All depends on the use case though, particularly if it's used for uplifts and you won't be pedalling up all that much anyway.

I think other than some very progressive brands geometry from 2013-2018(ish) changed quite rapidly but has since settled right down with the exception of XC bikes which took a while longer to embrace the "It doesn't need to be a race bike to be fast & fun" attitude that they now have.

So if you can get a good price on the Pivot or something similar that you like from 2020-2024 you shouldn't be giving much away and in some cases will end up with something more suitable. Santa Cruz Hightower from a similar era for example, as the latest one hasn't really gained anything other than weight/complexity.

I have a 2021 Slash and it's way more appropriate for my riding than the bigger current gen version, or some of the newer Enduro bikes. Feels more like a big trail bike than a massive enduro beast and it's very comfy to climb all day and explore on. I wouldn't like it if all bikes started going towards ultra progressive massive travel beasts. 

A couple of times, I’ve ridden one of my older bikes, or an older bike owned by someone else. Personally, I hate it. The older bikes feel so twitchy and unstable. I absolutely loved them at the time. And maybe if most of your trails are flattish and untechnical, the older bikes would be fine. But all I’m saying is that I’d hate to go back to a 68 or 69 degree head angle and a slack seat post angle. Disclaimer is that I live in a trail area with lots of steep, technical riding - both climbs and descents.

For clarity - I’m not commenting on the OP’s Pivot. Potentially, it’s right bang up to date geometry wise.

But all I’m saying is that I’d hate to go back to a 68 or 69 degree head angle and a slack seat post angle. Disclaimer is that I live in a trail area with lots of steep, technical riding - both climbs and descents.

The Enduro SL / Pitch I mentioned dates back to ~2008 and has a 66deg HA.

Obviously that was at the extreme end of the scale, the only other mainstream bike that was close was the Cannondale Prophet MX.  But modern geometry is now old enough to drink and vote.

My current Vitus is very similar, except it's 29", lower stand over, pedals a bit better, is made of carbon, has better components, and has a much longer shock for slightly less travel so it's not blown up like the Pitch was prone to.  So I'm, not saying that 20 year old bikes are as good as modern ones. But things have definitely settled down to a point where good bikes aren't becoming obsolete.