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Turns out i have a use for moto style turning.
I didn't use to think there were a place for it. Most of my experiences of it from watching other people is dog legged paddling whilst trying to stop both wheels wash out from underneath them, uncommitted safety riding as it were.
In sheffield, there's a lot of mates races, which are ghetto duel races, by torch light, around some sticks, in the mud. I took the time to pay hard attention how the local legends appeared to be amazingly composed and controlled in this "moto" position. If it's working for them, there must be something in it.
I go back in daylight and have a play around. Im getting pretty confident at controlling a drift both feet on pedals, but when it goes, it goes. Gave this "moto" stuff a go, cue off camber, muddy, long corner, go in, pretty much doing a press up on the bars with foot out, instantly reach levels of grip i've previously strived hard for. Not only levels of grip, but infinite control of the back wheel drifting with micro shifts in body position. It was a revelation.
I put this into practise on a turn the catches me out, essentially a wet off camber switch back, with roots across. I normally try to ride it committed on the pedals, go round and hope, if a root breaks traction, dab foot and try to ride it out. This time, applying "moto" to it, foot out, weighted front, took it faster, rear tyre broke loose again, small weight shift, traction again, problem solved, no dramas.
Long story short, i thought i knew better, tried something new, it paid off. Am now buzzing because of a eureka moment, hence the long winded, enthused story. 😀
Sounds like a great way to spend an afternoon. Nice one 😀
I need to do this, I bottle it in fast corners
Awesome! I've been working on moto style cornering in the broader sense (mostly feet up) as I've rambled about over here: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/railing-corners-on-a-hardtail/page/2
not sure what you mean by moto turns. is it putting your inside foot toward the front axle?
any pics to demonstrate?
The foot out thing has never been a conscious thing for me - I always find the leg goes out of its own accord in such situations. To be honest i've always been mildy embarassed by it, like i was advertising to the world that I have either no faith in my tyres or no commitment in fast corners.
Sticking the foot out I always thought of as more Shaun Palmer than Nico Voullioz. Lairy and exciting but ultimately slower. Your back to back testing is however leading me to suspect that I haven't got the faintest clue what I'm doing, nor what I'm talking about.
This explains it better than I can: http://www.leelikesbikes.com/dh-riding-style-moto-vs-mtb.html
Foot out is an optional component of moto style. The basic differences (moto first) are: heavy hands vs heavy feet, lean with the bike vs lean bike but keep body upright, keep body more upright vs keep body low, use suspension and move with bike vs use arms and legs to smoothly suspend torso.
A child learning to ride a bike will drop it's foot to balance itself, it's totally natural and intuitive and doesn't need to be taught. Sadly for a lot of adults, when they are sold a mountain bike they are told by one source or another that they "must" ride a certain way, usually clipped in, before they've really mastered any key skills, they have to learn a new way of riding.
SPDs are great if you've got the skill and the confidence to supersede their disadvantages, or are racing XC. Sounds like you had a great time learning how to corner. I really wouldn't call it "Moto" style though. Just riding a bike.
I'm not sure about it. Some of the riding sounds particularly different to what I'm used to, especially leaning with the bike as opposed to leaning the bike and staying upright.
My plan was to find a sloping field and do faster & tighter turns. That way I'll know how far I can take it before each wheel washes out
chiefgrooveguru - MemberThis explains it better than I can: http://www.leelikesbikes.com/dh-riding-style-moto-vs-mtb.html
Very interesting link.
Ok so apparently I have a preference for moto style despite having never ridden a MX, funny 🙂
Interesting, I've spent years fighting myself trying to ride less moto and get some mtb skills (very moto background).
I'm starting to get there but what I'm hearing is its fine and I can revert to type 🙂
I'll get the first aid kit ready