[Closed] Lost item in post - whose responsibility?

If the seller is conceding that RM have failed them, then they should send a replacement or refund and take it up with RM - it's their problem.

This is from the DTI website:

"If no date is specified, delivery of goods or the start of performance of a service must be within 30 days of the order. If they don't arrive you are entitled to cancel the order and receive a full refund.

According to the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumer Regulations 2002 the goods remain at the seller’s risk until they are delivered to the consumer. Thus the supplier is liable should the goods not arrive."

[url= http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3045/regulation/4/made ]linky[/url]

The only potentially sticky point is the redirect - at what point does the RM contract with the seller become the separate RM contract with you, if at all?

If you paid by CC you have additional protection, I think.

Depends where it's gone missing.
If it's between retailer and forwarding address then it's retailer that needs to sort it.
If it's between forwarding address and new address then royal mail need to sort it.

If there is no tracking information then retailer need to sort it with RM - simples.

Well this is tricky. Personally I would say it's your issue - the seller sent them to the postal address you told them to (albeit a previous one).

However, YOU have a contract with RM to forward on post from address to your new one.

Tricky ground, but in my non-legal opinion, it's up to you and RM to sort - the retailer did their bit.

You have a contract with the seller to deliver the goods to your old address. The seller has a contract with RM to deliver the item to your old address. You have a contract with RM to deliver the item addressed to your old address to your new address

The seller should ask RM to prove that the item was delivered. If they can't then it's RM's liability (unless sent untracked in which case the seller can claim on RM for standard compensation and must then send you the product again.

If RM can prove it was delivered to your old address then you have to claim from RM for failing to redirect the mail (not sure what terms you have there).

The tracking information isn't available online, so it's not been delivered anywhere - so not to my home address.

I spoke to Royal Mail, and they said it was up to the seller to contact them for a claim, and nothing that I can do.

The shop I bought from is very decent, and I'll still be using them, I just don't accept their position on this one, as I don't think I should be £200 down because they haven't paid for insurance - which is their choice, and should be built into their business model if that's the risk they are accepting.

The actual response I got was that items usually end up returned to them, which in some cases is up to 6 months. So... I think the suggestion is that I wait 6 months. So.... 6 months without a set of brakes for my bike that I paid for? I think that's bonkers.

I was under the impression that some mail can't be redirected, I suspect your parcel may fall into that category?

Is there any mail you can't redirect?

Yes, we can't redirect the following:

Mail for people or organisations that weren’t occupying or conducting business from the old address.
Personal mail from a business address elsewhere.
Parcelforce Worldwide products, and other carriers’ mail that is not delivered by Royal Mail.
Mail where the old address is a boarding house, hotel, college or other multi-occupied premises.
Mail from a British Forces Post Office® (BFPO) address.
Special Delivery™, Recorded Signed For™ and Royal Mail Tracked® items to a Redirection address outside of the UK.
Any item bigger than Letter format over 25mm thickness & over 100g that clearly contains goods cannot be redirected abroad.
Any mail where laws prohibit us to redirect mail, for example we may be instructed by law to notify the authorities of Redirection requests for mail relating to government benefits.

https://www.royalmail.com/delivery/inbound-mail/redirections/faqs#9

nope: Special Delivery™, Recorded Signed For™ and Royal Mail Tracked® items to a Redirection address outside of the UK.

It was recorded signed for, from UK to UK.

I think you need to up the ante a bit here.

They can't or won't prove it was delivered anywhere, that leaves you nowhere to go other than claim it back on your credit card or Paypal if still within limit

Tricky ground, but in my non-legal opinion, it's up to you and RM to sort - the retailer did their bit.

-1. Not this.

If RM can prove it was delivered to your old address then you have to claim from RM for failing to redirect the mail (not sure what terms you have there).

The item should not have gone anywhere near the old address. Effective delivery for the Seller is at the sorting office where the redirect is effected.

- Seller needs to get RM to prove that it reached the point of redirection - if RM cannot show positively that it did reach that point then Seller is liable to refund you.

What does your redirect contract say about RM liability for lost redirect mail?

If your redirect contract is standard compensation only then unfortuntely both you and the seller failed to make adequate insurance arrangements.

Just spoke to RM again, not my responsibility. As the goods haven't appeared as tracking in the system, it means the redirect wasn't involved at all. So they were lost before they would have even been tried to go to my old address.

According to RM, there is nothing for me to do, as the contract is not with me. The claim is from the sender, the redirect is not an issue.

So... from Sale of Goods Act and RM's stance looks like I should receive a replacement.

I'm not sure how the liability would fall in terms of the redirection. It could be strongly argued that requirement on the part of the retailer to deliver to the consumer does not end simply because the package has reached the sorting office, whatever separate arrangements RM has put in place beyond that point to make that happen.

Either way, it sounds like the retailer is trying to wriggle out of this one when the consumer has taken all reasonable steps. I'm not aware of any obvious service offered by RM or anyone else to pre-insure against the risk of higher value items going astray during the redirection process.

EDIT: Sounds like Rickon has an open and shut case anyhow.

Ok an insiders take on this that can be problems with redirections if the parcel itself is to big for the delivery person to take it goes on a van duty, the problem is being the van duties do not have the information available about reirections just the delivery person sorting the letters. Most people do not order parcels to an old address relying on a redirection it happens I have done it myself not checking my order details on CRC.
You need to contact the delivery office @ your old address the should have the parcel if no one has accepted the parcel if the address is empty they will have left a 739 card (sorry you were out card)they will keep the item for several weeks before returning to sender!

I do know my local postman at my old address quite well, and it would have been him delivering it... so he would know to put it on redirect.

There is no tracking information though, none whatsoever - just 'check back later'. Which suggests to me that it's not anywhere that can be located by RM.

All sorted now 🙂 The shop has agreed to send out a new brake, so it's all good.

I spoke to the depots, and Royal Mail again and they think it's lost.

Cheers to everyone for the help. hopefully I'll have my proper brakes back and using them again after 6 weeks 🙂

Royal mail a joke, sent £700+ machined components to an anodisers, Royal mail signed for, 2 weeks later phone the anodisers to see where my components are, "sorry number not recognised", bit of detective work find out they had gone to the wall about a month previously, got onto royal mail to make a claim for lost goods as they had not gone to where I sent them, we have a signature here for them thats great where are they, we cant tell you all the mail was forwarded to another address and we are not allowed to tell you data protection and all that where it is,we have held up our side of the bargain getting them to the person signed for!!! never saw them again ,had to bite the bullet and remake, vowed never to use them again.

Royal mail a joke, sent £700+ machined components to an anodisers

So you posted an item to a company without contacting them the post was redirected and the person who received it was too dishonest to send it back or refuse the parcel. Royal Mail were legally obliged to not give out details so they didn't and your angry at them??

I'd call that one a draw - I know they can be rubbish at times but they can't be expected to sort out your end too.

So.... It all got sorted out, received the new brake today. Yipee.

But... Its red. My other one is black.

It wouldn't be an issue if my rear much wasn't gold.

Its gonna look a bit odd, and the resale value if I decided down the line to sell is greatly affected.

What would you do? Accept its just a colour, and will get covered in mud anyway, or ask for the right colour?

Bit annoyed now.

Morning Crew! Assemble!

Any thoughts? 🙂

Definatey be asking for a black one if it was me

What did you order? If you specifically ordered black, then that's what you should get.

The issue with the first postage balls up is a bit irrelevant here as you've received the item you ordered and it's incorrect - if you don't like it return it under DSR if it was ordered at distance.

Sounds like they've tried to cut their losses with it by sending something they can't sell easily, as if they've used recorded delivery they won't be insured for the first parcel (unless it's a very high margin item as the cost would need to be less than £46). At the end of the day, they chose to send the goods uninsured and they've gone missing, it's not something you should have to carry the can for. Whether you want to accept it as a show of goodwill is up to you if you don't want to fall out with them, but you don't have to.

They should just chalk it up - I do a similar thing with online retail and risk it on certain values as the cost of losing 1/50 parcels recorded is far less than the cost would be to send them all insured. Anything that doesn't get there, I give it a week or so and give RM a poke and then send another no quibble, but I send the replacement special delivery so I know it will get there next day this time.

If you ordered a black one, I'd ask for a black one. If they only have red ones left, I'd suck it up, but maybe ask for a discount or other sweetener.