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Just back, forrestry commission have bulldozed a number of the trails. Workmans is completely destroyed. It has gone from lovely bermy singletrack to a road width path of destruction, healthy trees ripped up and deliberately smashed to block access.
I understand these trails are 'cheeky' and ever since a certain mag mentioned them I have noticed a large increase in riders and jumps being built which probably has contributed to the action.
However I am truely upset by the mess and environmental damage I just saw. My sympathies to those guys who spent many many hours perfecting those trails.
If I get a chance I,ll upload some pictures of it all.
Is shoplifting just "cheeky" shopping?
Engage with landowners. Work with them to create sustainable, legal trail development.
advice he gives to the hunting fraternity as well 😀
Really the authorities/forestry commission really need to communicate and have a consistent approach instead of randomly trashing places.
What type of trails and use are they willing to accept or not?
Isnt there a forestry commission forum/blog/news page which warns users of misuse of land and consequences? or discussions on use?
Cfh. If it was that simple it would have been sorted, if you think it is easy how about putting your money where your mouth is and sorting it?
What really needs to happen is the law needs to change so landowners can't be sued if you hurt yoursellf oing something dangerous like jumping, that and right to roam. Fat chance.
Well at least nicks initiative at the sports centre will get more popular.
Thats areal shame, there were some good trails up there and alot of work had gone in to i t,
has it been wholesale destruction of all the built trails or just the main ones in the middle?
A quick search of theforum history shows that this happenned a couple of years ago as well,
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/lordswood-southampton-the-forestry-commissions-response
I guess When they get too many trails they feel they have to do somthing to remove the "danger"
seems from there previous response you will get something similar if you contacted them to ask the reasons.
Real shame tho really enjoy riding Lordswood.
Is it just the workman's or have other bits been smashed too?
If the location referred to in Nick's old posting is the one I think it was, then that was perhaps the 3rd (or more!) time that area had been built up and flattened that I can recall.
I have to admit I was slightly surprised that the much expanded workman's run had held out for so long as trails in that section of the woods have been flattened before too.
And I recall Nick's previous efforts to get some trail work going with the acceptance of the FC and the leasehold issues that came up then so it does seem like the chances of getting anything truly official up and running are pretty slim.
But (grumpy old bloke moment) "we" don't seem to help ourselves out sometimes either - I wonder if the jump onto/across one of the main gravel tracks that recently appeared has survived the latest clear up.
I hope they haven't flattened any of the more flow-y parts though I can think of some places where I will be surprised if they haven't 🙁
Yeah I did think that jump right onto the fire track was asking for it.
Looked to be a fair amount of destruction at the start and end of each trail and along the entire length of some! 🙁
Pump track flattened a couple of years ago along with the pre-workmans run. As soon as it gets jumpy, built up or anything with a gap it seems the bulldozers are called in. The fc only manage the land and I think it's privately owned. There have been many attempts to get some sanctioned trails but the ownership, proximity to a big estate, shared usage, odd fires and many illegal motorbikes riding all add up to limited negotiation. Sad but true, getting something sanctioned is a bit of a pipe dream.
Totally gutted.
I have really enjoyed riding there this winter and it
was just starting to ride well again after all that wet weather.
Although Im sure that many of the "less built" trails could be quickly re-established if only blocked by felled trees.
What chainsaw for Lordswood?
But (grumpy old bloke moment) "we" don't seem to help ourselves out sometimes either - I wonder if the jump onto/across one of the main gravel tracks that recently appeared has survived the latest clear up.
Exactly. There was some real stupidity with some of the building there, just asking for it to be knocked down. The NS drop to the left of the workmans area for example was just silly, the gap at the end of the workmans over the stream etc, badly made & just asking for someone to brain themselves on them...
Hopefully most of the more natural stuff elsewhere has been left.
Mate just got back and reporting that "everything" is flattened except star wars and motorway run
I'm going up tomorrow night so will have a nosey around.
It is a shame but as others have highlighted the trails are not sanctioned and it would seen potentially actively unwanted by the land owner. I suspect this is a never ending cycle for lords wood unless someone can persuade the owner to permit them. What seems funny is that the money spent on flattening trails could potentially be saved or reduced by managing trails with a club or user group.
Yeah totally gutted guys. I went straight from work and saw the bulldozer being loaded on the back of the lorry. When I rode down to workmans and saw the destruction I felt sick. It's such a shame. I've heard already that a few guys will be building again very soon though
So you go onto private property and dig iit up, Youre not on TIME TEAM,
JUST PERHAPS ASK THE LAND OWNERS WHAT THEY WILL LET YOU DO.
Or club together buy some land and let anyone with a shovel dig it up.
Other trails are damage at start / end but okay. Main dh runs with stupidly obvious jumps and workmans destroyed. I have seen jumps flattened before and kind of not been bothered by it as I don't use them, but the complete destruction genuinely brought a tear to my eye it is like they gave the keys to a 16 yr old who likes pulling legs of ants and said do your worst.
For the smart arses that think that popping along and having a chat with the landowner will sort it are sadly misinformed or wear slightly pink glasses.
Isnt there a forestry commission forum/blog/news page which warns users of misuse of land
they probably google the area +trails +MTB, or look them up on strava..
DT I don't think anyone is being a smartarse. The fact remains that the land is privately owned and the land owner does not appear to want these trails on it. People wishing to build on it must therefore have permission or accept the consequences. Its legally not really any different to digging up someone's garden. This does not change the fact that it is a crying shame some kind of compromise cannot be achieved.
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I imagine you get the idea.
Used to be lovely singletrack with nice rhododendron either side. Lovely this time of year as it is flowering.
Ridden there 15 years. Never been this bad, even when they logged a couple of years ago. It's the smashing / ripping up of the trees that upsets me the most. Proper vandalism. Probably some nice cute fluffy things got squashed in the process too.
Personally rather than a pathetic link to the FC website I'd like the name and number of the person responsible so they can stand up and justify the need for this level of destruction.
Well at least there is a flyer warning people of it now, maybe bring that online somewhere permanent though eh.
it is sad that the owner would rather make a total mess of the area and destruction of his trees than allow some mtb trails.
admittedly there are some stupid building going on in places, like across the fire road...
i reckon leave out the jumps and just use natural singletrack and see how that goes, then i can run on the trails as well 🙂
I ride Lordswood every once in a while and learned a lot on the Workman's Run - real shame that it's been knocked down - the last of the classics after Wonderland, Utopia, etc have gone...
🙁
Personally rather than a pathetic link to the FC website I'd like the name and number of the person responsible so they can stand up and justify the need for this level of destruction.
Hmmm perhaps they own the land.. Like.... It belongs to them & you have no right to ride through it?
Just a thought.
😥 not good..
however, i know of another very secret area in production (not by me, I just stumbled upon it 😆 ) that is looking fun, but not as hilly!
yoda2376 - Member
When I rode down to workmans and saw the destruction I felt sick.
Meanwhile [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18233934 ]elsewhere this was happening[/url] and [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18247330 ]bulldozers were busy here too[/url] and [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18256214 ]the forces of nature reaped mass destruction.[/url]
The usual STW type guff rears it's head again.
On topic I'm saddened by this news. I've only been riding Lordswood since last autumn and I have really enjoyed riding/crashing on the trails there. I hope that there's enough of the trail network left to make it worth trying to ride there. It does seem that more jumpy stuff has appeared recently and I'm quite sure it is this, not the less than obvious at times singletrack that has caused the 'dozing.
Kinda glad I'm off on holiday for 3 weeks today so I don't have to see it on tomorrow night's ride...
Was up there last night on a rare visit to lordswood and rode along the digger tracks, sad seeing how much damage has been done including a massive sump developing where the digger has ripped up the ground to about 2ft deep on a downslope, not so much from an MTB point of view but more that its fairly wanton destruction in places which is going to render areas impassable to legitimate users as well as cyclists.
Tbh its been coming however as every visit in the last year I've noted more jumps/kickers/gnar features dug into the trails and some of the construction has been ludicrous for a 'cheeky' wood in an urban centre with heavy use by walkers. I can't help but feel if the trails were a little more red-grade flowy and a little less black-grade jumpy the FC might not be pushed to act. In particular I think positioning jump exits across popular tracks/bridleways was taking the p**s.
Do like the FC sign however about alternatives - I was going to ride a local wood but instead I'll drive to kent!
A lot of the guys who dug utopia and the duel track parallel to the workmans are now building the bike park in the sports centre. This may mean the trails in lordswood redevelop as more flowing trails and the jumps and bumps stay on sanctioned land.
The southampton build park was started after many years of trying to talk with the owners of lordswood failed to achieve anything. The bike park is meant as a play area and does not have trails as such. the hope was for it to become a warm up area before riding in lordswood.
Where is the so called warm up area being built? Does any one now of any local trails as good as lordswood?
Been biking and "creating" trails for a few years now and the advice I give to riders new to the "art" is to work with, not against FC or the inevitable will happen 🙄
Then along come another new group of "mbuk how to build" readers and tip the balance. The worst of this group start altering stuff that has been around for years which is not only dangerous but then has the effect of getting it closed ❗
Riding through a local private forest one day only to come across a ranger/stalker lying in the undergrowth pointing his rifle down the track 😳 There are dangers out there!!
In my regular locals there are areas where it is suggested we do not go. Areas where there are badgers sets, rare butterflies and some rare bird nesting sites. Forests are not just about the trees.
Agree that all this seems a bit contradictory when FC come along and destroy stuff as per pics above. All that was needed there was for a friendly chat with the riders responsible for the daft stuff as happens when your local rangers are also keen bikers 😉
I agree the building of the jumps in obvious placed was plain stupid. Also been more kids on motorcross down there recently, the trails they tear around have been blocked which is a good thing as only.a matter of time before they ran a dog/ person/ cyclist over.
As I said in my slightly emotional mails above I have no issues with jumps being knocked down, it is the destruction of the environment.
Wca you are an asset to our little community. Btw it was me who said hello on whites level couple of weeks back
This kind of action can and will happen again in many similar pieces of woodland all over the country if trailbulders dont know when to stop. Keep it very low key and in keeping with the environment and you will have a chance.
As far as I know, the FC still work to these guidelines:
http://imba.org.uk/trailbuilding/mtb-jump-spots/
The problem is that they don't meet the needs of more advanced riders (e.g. no doubles), and as a result people don't tend to stick to them.
Self-management could be one solution - i.e. local riders liaise with the FC regularly and any dangerous new build gets decommissioned by riders. It's depressing playing policeman though.
Had a quick ride in the wood before work today, did not get chance to ride the more north end of forest but some bits of single track / paths are left. However any tracks that go toward look like mini tornadoes have gone through as seen by photos. Real shame but i wondered how long some of it would last, especially as there has been quite a few new bits added recently.
As said already, hopefully with the continue development of the bike park at the sports centre there will be less building taking place in Lordswood. It does look like the FC only really completely levelled the tracks that had obvious structures added. I expect if only 'natural' paths appear that they will be left alone in future (at least that’s what I am hoping!)
Will have another ride there tonight, see what other paths I can still find that does not involve needing excellent trials skills to clear.
Talk to the Forestry Commission about this. The regional office is at Alice Holt - give them a call, and ask to speak to the beat forester for the Southampton area - most likely Bruce Auchterlonie.
The beat foresters are very thinly spread in the South - more forestry to manage than Scotland, but spread across hundreds of little parcels. The *easy* option for FC is to level stuff if it gets to a point where it's potentially dangerous.
[b]YOU[/b] - the people riding these trails - need to talk to them, help share the load a bit in terms or reporting and management. That means talking to other riders and builders about what's likely to get trails leveled, and what is broadly acceptable.
Having been in this situation with local trails several times over the last 15 years, yakking about it on teh internetz will not solve anything. Picking up the phone and talking to FC / the landowner will.
If you want this sort of thing to stop, take some responsibility. Look at how good jump spots are managed - a good working relationship with the landowner. We can and do do this stuff with MTB trails.
'tis a very sad day indeed 🙁
I guess on the bright side Darren, at least you've now been immortalised as KOM - Dang. I had plans to take your crown this weekend and everything.
Crazy.
Some of the places they've listed as alternatives are probably 3 hour round trips in a car.
I wonder how many people building/riding there even own a car? These woods are rideable from the city and i'd imagine the people with the most time are kids/teenagers. With summer holidays coming up it wouldn't surprise me if its all rebuilt soon.
The suggested alternatives are a bit of a stretch to be honest, the only place within cycling distance of LW is the NF and unless I'm mistaken the offroad routes are fireroads, which is hardly comparable.
Good news for you Chojin, 90 degrees is untouched and one of the Lordthorne tracks has survived with just the exit blocked so you still should be able to take my crown 🙂
(Probably because neither of these trails had any jumps built on them...)
That's a real shame.
Whilst an exile from Bristol, I spent five years in Southampton. The tangled network of trails in Lordswood truly kept me sane (especially during blimmin' nurse training). Now, Bristol is great for riding - but by virtue of local geology, it has very little of that lovely, loamy, buttery singletrack that so characterises LW in the dry.
What saddens me is that mtbers are slated for being environmental vandals (I had regular arguments about this with the lady living at the top end of LW, whose notions of 'ecology' were frankly baffling)- and yet such trails cause [i]nothing like[/i] the disruption involved in commercial harvesting. I understand the difficulties surrounding jumps etc, but there needs to be more dialogue on all sides - mountain bikers tend to care about their local woods, and pretty deeply. Leisure use of FC/FC-leased land is - arguably - starting to rival actual forestry operations.
Anyway, give it time... new trails will arise.
Hi Guys,
Be aware the FC do read this forum on occaision. Here is a quick summary of about 8 years of trying to get controlled bike trails built within Lordswood. Forgive me if the details aren't exactly correct but you shold get the gist.
Me : Please can we develop bike trails in the woods
Local FC : Sounds like a good idea, let's talk
Me : Organised builds with an authorised team building to recognised standards
Local FC : Like it, let's do it
Me : Here are some plans
Local FC : Let's do it next Saturday
Me + LUVGODS (Lordswood Users Volunteer Group Ongoing Development Squad) : Build, build, build
Local FC : Like it, let's plan another session
Me : Plan
Local FC : Um, sorry, we have been told from the powers above we can't do this anymore
Me : Bugger, what about rhodedendrum clearing in narrow strips with some 'water diversion features' that rider might use to leave the ground
Local FC : I will check ... No
Me : Any way we can move this forward, contact the land owners?
Local FC : 'fraid not
Me : Oh well, unauthorised building will continue then
Local FC : Yeah, we can't stop you but we will bulldoze what ever we find
Me : Okay, shame it didn't work out
Local FC : Yeah, real pity as it would have been a great resource
Me : Okay, see you next bulldozer session
Local FC : Take care
DT78 [i]Wca you are an asset to our little community. Btw it was me who said hello on whites level couple of weeks back [/i]
That was who it was, sorry I didn't recognise you out of context!
Asset to the community? Phah, just too lazy to keep rebuilding. Anyway, I get other people to do the hard work, I just make it possible.
Ah - thanks for the background, WCA - sounds like you gave it a really solid go. Good on ya!