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I agree with TandemJeremy. Safety first, rules for the sake of rules second. Those that turn a murky grey issue into a black and white one are fools to their own demise, which is their choice.
So those of you that believe that there is no excuse for RLJ are your bikes fully legal? Red reflector on the back, pedal reflectors, ce marked lights? ( non ce marked lights are not strictly legal)
If not how do you justify breaking these laws?
I've just checked my Brompton
Reflectors on pedals - check
Red reflector on rear - check
CE marked lights front & rear - check
It's even got a bell!
😉
Sorry I really don't get the "must be at the front of all traffic at red lights otherwise you will die" mantra. I only bother if it's safe, convenient (to both me and other traffic) and/or I'm gonna make up a lot of time/distance.
It's proper annoying when you get stuck behind a bus etc doing 12mph because spome twonk on a bike has inched to the front and decided everything behind him must go as slow as he does.*
EDIT *may contain trolling content.
So those of you that believe that there is no excuse for RLJ are your bikes fully legal? Red reflector on the back, pedal reflectors, ce marked lights? (
Oddly, being a seriel RLJer I have a bike covered in lights and reflectors on wheels and pedals. (F & R reflectors are pretty useless and I remove them to fit the lights or there's no room)
So ner! 😉
It's proper annoying when you get stuck behind a bus etc doing 12mph because spome twonk on a bike has inched to the front and decided everything behind him must go as slow as he does.
Yeah but it's not the end of the World, is it? I mean, you're not going to die because you're only going at 12 miles an hour. Maybe it's safer for the cyclist to just continue, rather than pull over to let some impatient person past.
If tossers in cars behind me get impatient and start bibbing, when there's no way for me to let them past, I will ride deliberately slowly. **** 'em. The World doesn't revolve around them.
Red reflector on the back, pedal reflectors, ce marked lights?
Not really on the same scale as RLJ, Police won't give a hoot about those, what's your point?
TandemJeremy - Member
So those of you that believe that there is no excuse for RLJ are your bikes fully legal? Red reflector on the back, pedal reflectors, ce marked lights? ( non ce marked lights are not strictly legal)If not how do you justify breaking these laws?
IMO they are less important than RLJ and visibility is accounted for in other ways.
so you pick an chose the laws to obey and compromise your safety?
al - it doesn't hold the cars up tho - they will be in exactly the same place in teh next jam as no one overtakes
Elfinsafety - MemberIt's proper annoying when you get stuck behind a bus etc doing 12mph because spome twonk on a bike has inched to the front and decided everything behind him must go as slow as he does.
If tossers in cars behind me get impatient and start bibbing, when there's no way for me to let them past, I will ride deliberately slowly. **** 'em. The World doesn't revolve around them.
According to your post, it actually revolves around you then? 🙄
TandemJeremy - Member
so you pick an chose the laws to obey and compromise your safety?
Yes, so?
al - it doesn't hold the cars up tho - they will be in exactly the same place in teh next jam as no one overtakes
In some situations, yes, but not all.
Yes, so?
Its the hypocrisy of the " you must obey all red lights" brigade. They are quite happy to break other laws. (not you - I don't remember you saying that.)_
According to your post, it actually revolves around you then?
Well, duuuh! 🙄 Have you not worked that out yet then?
It's proper annoying when you get stuck behind a bus etc doing 12mph
You'll never get stuck behind me doing 12mph!
I choose my strategy based on the fact that I'm fast enough to make it work. If I were a granny I'd choose something else!
The London police certainly do care if you've not got lights on, saw one lad getting fined last week in the road through Hyde Park.
As for motorists being bothered about cyclists going through red lights at pedestrian crossings, couldn't give a monkies myself.
I choose not to jump RL's because it's stooopid, I don't have silly reflectors on my pedals because there next to useless, I do have hi viz vest/backpack, three lights, pink grips with glitterey tassles and [b]helmet[/b] though.
so you hare happy to break laws then when riding? pedal reflectors are actually very good for being seen by and identifying you as a cyclist. No rear reflector either? Are your lights CE marked? You lawbreaker you . Tsk tsk
OK, I admit it. I'm an irresponsible fool and giving the entire cycling public a very, very bad image.
I cycle round the streets of London in OFFICE SHOES. They have no velcro straps, no ratchet systems, no carbon soles and no cleats.
It's not big and it's not clever.
I'm ashamed of myself and shall hand myself in to the first policeman I see
pedal reflectors are actually very good
not once they get covered in grime, plus my legs move to quick anyway, rear reflector? What do you ride a Boris tandem? Do you work for the EU or something?
not once they get covered in grime, plus my legs move to quick anyway
They don't seem to get covered up to the point of invisibility, and speaking as a motorist pedal reflectors are one of the things that immediately and unambigiously identify a cyclist from a long way off in the dark. Likewise wheel reflectors if the cyclist is coming from the side.
12mph! 😆
I don't know if I'm that bothered about RLJ when it's done (in my eyes) at a minimum and responsibly. I just don't perceive the same threat from traffic at lights.
I have no pedal reflectors (I wish I did as they are very good but they fell off), However I have a pannier reflector, rack reflector and reflective trouser band, often a tabard too.
So those of you that believe that there is no excuse for RLJ are your bikes fully legal? Red reflector on the back, pedal reflectors, ce marked lights? ( non ce marked lights are not strictly legal)
I don't know if it's the same now, but when I worked in a shop it was only legal for a shop to supply a bike with front, rear, pedal and wheel reflectors. Once the bike had been bought the owner could remove them if they wanted to.
I don't know if I'm that bothered about RLJ when it's done (in my eyes) at a minimum and responsibly. I just don't perceive the same threat from traffic at lights.
Maybe we need to categorise RLJing?
Is an RLJ when someone turns left through a light when the road is clear, or when someone sails through a red as if protected by a shield of invincibility? Or is it all the same (you lawbreaker, you)?
wrong pimpmaster. Teh rear reflector is mandatory for all bikes, the pedal reflectors post 1985. The front reflector and wheel reflectors can be removed. A CE marked light has a legal reflector in it.
60
At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85).
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069837
BTW TJ I think your hypocrisy post was a bit over the top (and incorrect)
So right apart from the rear and pedal reflectors. 😛
On my ride from office to station
RLJs 8 (1 fix, 3 hybrid, 4 Boris bikes)
Riding on pavement (1 Boris bike)
Riding wrong way (1 Boris bike)
Near collision - only one, but ironically wa a girl who jumped lights got missed by a taxi by a gnats cock, which had also jumped lights
Percentage of ASLs that had taxis in them 100%
As someone that rides in London most days I'd say those that obey every rule of the road, wear reflective gear and ride along with a halo above them tend to be the same cyclists that end up under the wheel of a motorised vehicle!
If (like me) you occasionally, jump the odd light, use the pavement, ride up the wrong side of the road, dive in and out of slow moving traffic. Then you concentrating and not just blundering along and therefore less likely to be squashed! I make all my own choices and live with the results.... just like when I hammer down the mway at over 70mph!
Yeah it is breaking the law, but in grand scheme of things is it that important....? There are people in the world doing far, far worse!
Arcticdan Thats rubbish. I'm viz'd up and obey the law. I know exactly whats going on around me. I haven't been squashed yet
Maybe an over generalisation, but for the majority of those type of cyclist they are an accident waiting to happen!
Had a feeling this would be rather heated. My rules are, pay close attention to everything around you, then, should you decide to break the law, you are less likely to be caught.
This also helps avoid being runover or indeed hitting someone else.
I've covered 40000+- miles in london and am yet to have an accident.
For the record, i used to jump red lights like it was going out of fashion, but i do it rarely now..but do do it, if it's safe to do so.
Everyone breaks the law doing something they shouldn't, so i wouldn't and indeed don't worry about it.
I choose not to jump RL's because it's stooopid
I have an idea that rewski might be having us on, but anyone who truly believes this isn't really paying attention to what's going on around him. Which [i]is[/i] stoopid.
me: Lights F&R, no idea about CE markings, no reflectors, no pedal reflectors, some black clothing but always some white/light/reflective. RLJ where it's safe, advantageous, and doesn't incovenience pedestrians or drivers with more of a right of way than me*. But never at the one the Po-leece stand behind every day.
*Edit: And always after slowing as much as necessary and making exaggerated head movements while I check to make it obvious to anyone who cares that I'm making informed choices about my safety and that of those who I might affect.
I have come to the conclusion that there are two Edinburghs. TJs one, where it takes an hour to drive out of town and all the drivers are out to get you - and the one I live and work in.
TJ, why do you make a point of saying you never ride on pavements?
Seems odd to find someone who spends a lot of his time preaching intelligent choice regardeless of the the law to be using the word "never".
Not even if it involves a satisfying sidehop and no one's looking?
I don'rt believe its ever justified to ride on pavements. I push my bike if I want to go on a pavement.
I make teh point to show its not about being unthinking or selfish that I jump red lights but that I do it in a considered manner to ensure my safety.
Actually thinking about it I have used the edge of dropped kerbs as little jumps for amusement a few times. However I never use pavements to avoid traffic
The one and only fine i've had in London was for riding on the pavement; going down the strand, hopped onto the pavement to take a little short cut to a loading bay and rode straight up to a policewomen. It was actually very funny and we both laughed at how dumb i was, she was very pleasent and we had quite a chat 😉
Actually thinking about it I have used the edge of dropped kerbs as little jumps for amusement a few times. However I never use pavements to avoid traffic
Same, for the record, it would be slower to ride on the pavement than anywhere else in London. A waste of time. Although one place that is good is Temple, loads of maze like routes, drops, steps...good fun!
However I never use pavements to avoid traffic
I understand you point of why you made the point, but I don't see the difference between taking another's right of way when it's safe and doesn't incovenience them, and taking another's right of way when it's safe and doesn't incovenience them.
😉
I red light jump only for my own safety. I don't know of a situation where going on pavements reduces the risks to me significantly
God Joe, what have you started here with this thread - there'll be no one cycling in tomorrow, they're all too busy arguing on here!
[b]I red light jump only for my own safety.[/b]
perhaps you need to go to a cycling proficiency class (they are run by local authorities and free to attend) and learn how to ride a bicycle on the highway safely?
seriously, if you need to break the law to "stay safe" on the highway, you need to have a long, hard look at your cycling?
develop your "road craft", follow the highway code and you won't have a problem with either the law or other road users..
think of if it this way - if you break the law and are involved in a road traffic accident with a pedestrian, other cyclist or motor vehicle, and you survive the accident, expect to have the full weight of the law thrown at you
I commute over 100 miles a week from NW to S London, and the common "near misses" I have is with law-breaking cyclists jumping lights at junctions and riding at me down one-way roads
ES,
Yup, there are some ****s out there, and I'm not one of the ones you describe.
But there is a difference between making every possible effort to make sure everyone around you is not endangered or inconvenienced by your actions, and making your commute 10% longer than it needs to be.
Oh, and when I break the law, I make bloody sure that there is zero chance that my doing it will result in any kind of RTA.
nedrapier - those exaggerated head movements are your brain trying to tell you it's stoopid.
Are you on the back of TJ's tandem by any chance?
I red light jump only for my own safety.
Sometimes it is clearly the safer option.