[Closed] London cycling commuters, are you breaking da law? 😉

There's no such thing as a RTA, have you not seen Hot Fuzz? Accident implies nobody was at fault, if you jump lights it's pretty cut and dry who's fault it is.

esher shore

Don't patronise me. I am 50 yrs old and have always cycled in towns and don't own a car.

Did you actually bother to read what I wrote? Perhaps you should go back and do so.

I RLJ in a controlled manner at junctions I know when I can see all is clear and when by doing so I improve my safety by getting out of the way. I do not do it for my convenience.

If you don't understand that sometimes its safer to RLJ then you need to brush up on your riding skills.

Its a part of defensive riding that I have been practising for decades. I first read "roadcraft" 30 yrs ago

Go teach your grandmother to suck eggs.
.

I'm with TJ on this BTW, certain junctions in London for one are way, way safer if you've got a clear road ahead and behind. having been stopped by the plod for doing so, he agreed with my arguement and said good day.

The traffic lights in towns are there for motor vehicles. Bikes are now a part of the traffic and this inturn presents problems. I really consider cyclists in London as no problem, if you wanna risk your arse doing something dumb, go ahead. If it's clearly a considered move, taking in all aspects of potential danger..fair play.

Drivers on the other hand belting through reds 2 seconds after they've changed is a far, far greater danger to every road user. Drivers in London jump every set of lights i'm at...possibly hundreds a day.
The police appear not to really give a toss. Black cabs as a group of individuals are the worst offenders by miles.

so you pick an chose the laws to obey

I don'rt believe its ever justified to ride on pavements.I don'rt believe its ever justified to ride on pavements.

TJ, can you maybe video this junction you keep talking about so we can really see what you mean?

I have given you google images and descriptions of two junctions on teh first page.

How do you get past the nearside of a car that's too close to the kerb at the traffic lights?

You wait.

You go down the outside

Like druidh I have zero problems with junctions in town. Only with other bike users making up their own rules and being entirely unpredictablein their use of the road system. If we all act in the same way then it will be fine.

Tj - you sure seem to perceive some aggro out there.

Agreed. Maybe things seem more aggro at TJ's speeds.
😆

No aggro - just keeping myself safe. I haven't had any aggro for a long time.

I'll show you the two junctions in question but I know its safer to go a few seconds early to get ahead of the cars.

Al - why the attack again.
Where did I say I get aggro?

TBC - have you ever ridden thru those two junctions? I dio use them a lot

i commute to work in london every day and I ride like a complete bastard! I hold onto lorries, gamble with amber, hop on pavements to cut up the stationery traffic weave like a bee and if any one cuts me up or pulls out in front of me i kick their wing mirror off then do one down a side road!

I RLJ all the time. But over here (Vancouver), it's actually legal and both cars, bikes, trucks and buses do it. In fact, all over North America it's legal (except at specified junctions).

So, if it's good for the US and Canada, why is it such an issue in the UK? The difference is that it only applies when turning right and you must give way to pedestrians and traffic from your left.

So, reverse the directions for you right hand drive people and it's perfectly safe to turn left on a red light when everyone understands it's treated as a Give Way.

So, all those people above getting sanctimonious about RLJ'ing take the above into account. I'm pretty certain the vast majority of RLJ'ers (even in London or Edinburgh) aren't zooming straight across the middle of busy junctions without looking and with traffic flashing past in either direction.
(To summarize, there is sensible RLJ'ing and there is suicidal RLJ'ing but the former does appear to be apparent to the Daily Mail readers above! And yes, it is breaking the law [in the UK] but the law is an ass and should be updated)

Teviot... nearly every day as I commute through it. Twice.
Leith... used to live nearby if you recall. So aye to that one too.

Ride like a car drives - they don't seem to have trouble with them.

markgraylish - So you propose a law where anyone on a bike can jump a red light, do you really think that's suitable for a 8+ year old child to do? I can't be assed with this one anymore RJL's please carry on, perhaps the inevitable might happen and I can read about you in my Daily Mail.

NickyB is going downhill - I think i've seen you, you need to pump your back tyre up, you'd go much faster.

Now I'm really going.

Weel, there's a turn up. Saw no RLJs on my ride from station to office this morning at all. Sadly, as usual, all the ASLs were full of taxis, buses, vans and motorbikes

CaptainFlashheart - Member

How do you get past the nearside of a car that's too close to the kerb at the traffic lights?

You wait.

You go down the outside

Nahhh. Bollox to that. Stuff the lot of 'em. Rules? I don't need your stinking rules!

i commute to work in london every day and I ride like a complete bastard! I hold onto lorries, gamble with amber, hop on pavements to cut up the stationery traffic weave like a bee and if any one cuts me up or pulls out in front of me i kick their wing mirror off then do one down a side road!

NickyB is my hero! Go dude!!! 😀

TBC - you don't understand the posiotion. ride like a car drives? The teviot place one you are in a cycle lane joining a road. Does not apply.

If you go a bit early you are in front of the cars. If you go on green then you have a line of cars crossing your lane. Other STWers have had issues at thei set. its badly designed.

The leith one - you would be being overtaken by a line of traffic thru a pinch point and then have to turn right across a line of traffic.

Both times it is simply safer to set off from the light early. Its safer to be infront than it is to be amongst the traffic especially with the pinch points and illegally parked cars

TBC - I have also seen you riding on pavements and pedestrian crossings as well as ignoring other road law

TBC - I have also seen you riding on pavements and pedestrian crossings as well as ignoring other road law

yes i have done. That was not what i was discussing with you though.

I was pointing out the fallacy of running reds.

Can you elaborate on the Teviot junction again - not sure i understand what the problem is (genuinely not poking).

AS you come up off middle meadow walk there is a road from your right and your left both of which turn and going straight on. The traffic lights for the cycle lane in the middle are timed so that they ago to green the same time as the road from your right. The road you are going on to is two lane but all the traffic from you right wants to cross to the left lane, the one you are going to be in. If you leave on the green you arrive at the point on the road that the cars want to go into at the same time as they do and because of the layout of the road they will tend to swing across into your lane right at the start of the two lane bit. there is almost always illegally parked cars on it which narrows it as well.

You can clearly see all the roads and pavements for hundreds of yards. If you go early then you are ahead of the cars at the point they want to merge into your lane, if you wait for the green you are alongside them as they want to merge.

The next set of lights is always on red - thats how the timing works. So if you have waited for the green you then get trangled up in the cars again there, if you have gone early you are at the front of the line so the next junction where you turn right is easier.

You are less in the way of the cars and less exposed to them if you go early. There is no danger in going early at all. There is danger if you go on green.

other STWers have had issues at these lights - they are badly designed.

TJ you really need to lighten up, can you not understand what 😆 means?

TandemJeremy - Member

If you go a bit early you are in front of the cars. If you go on green then you have a line of cars crossing your lane. Other STWers have had issues at thei set. its badly designed.

Are you not channelled straight onto the bike lane?

I've used that junction for years too - I worked nearby for 7 years. HOwever your description of how traffic uses it is nrecognisable to me.

Al - a smilie does not make persoanl attacks acceptable. You continually make snidey digs at me. You didn't like it when I did it to you the other day

I use that junction a lot. That is how I find it. the cycle lane is merely a bit marked on the side of the road that is far to narrow, it usually has parked cars in it and the cars come from your right and try to merge to the left into the space you are in. I don't like having a car a few inches from my elbow. I'd rther it was a few yards behind

TJ I don't even remember you having a go at me. If you can't even take a humourous poke about going slow, with a smilie attached, I give up.

I get on fine with the bike lane (you appear to want more room than me) and don't find cars automatically forcing me onto the kerb as you appear to.

TJ - i might have to get you up there with me to show me what you mean - can't picture the problem. It seems fine to me when using it. Both from Middle Meadow Walk and the road entries.

Looking back over the majority of replies to my question most of us would do the same as me. Of course some wouldn't and that's fair play. Most of us London bike commuters do mini risk assessment in our heads all the way through the ride, at junctions, at crossings, in traffic... It's the way we all survive and live to argue on stw forums! 🙂 I know a commute in London on a bike can get the adrenaline pumping as much as say the downhill at inners, gets the olde ticker going and I really quite enjoy it.

In a hill street blues stylee, stay safe out there boys and girls!

I totally agree with ti_pin.
*un-subscribes from this thread as my RSS reader is full of it!

ti_pin_man - Member
London commuters, what's your general thoughts on cyclists being given tickets by the law... For offences such as Cycling on pavements, running red lights and things like that?

No fun, no fun, no fun...

i commute to work in london every day and I ride like a complete bastard!

I love you.... 😳

if any one cuts me up or pulls out in front of me i kick their wing mirror off then do one down a side road!

Ah, the number of times I've done this. At one stage I contemplated getting little wing mirror stickers to indicate 'kills', but then decided I'd soon have no space left on my frame...

If anything, riding in central London has improved quite a bit, as drivers have become more aware of the growing numbers of bikes out on the streets. It's good. The police just need to clamp down heavier on those who hinder or injure cyclists with their dangerous and selfish behaviour, not waste time dishing out tickets to RLJs.

[img] [/img]

I RLJ all the time. But over here (Vancouver), it's actually legal and both cars, bikes, trucks and buses do it. In fact, all over North America it's legal (except at specified junctions)

The vast majority of junctions in the USA are wide open with unrestricted views all round. When they aren't, there's a sign saying 'no turn on red'. In the UK a great many junctions are too tight, unsighted or otherwise unsuitable for this. When they are, you get a right filter light or a filter lane, to achieve the same result.

And we have roundabouts instead of many stop lights in the USA where you can go if nothing's coming. And on even smaller roads, almost all junctions are give ways aka 'yields' not stop signs.

Upshot is similar.

I have a 10 minute commute in London with about 15 sets of lights and it's really infuriating that so many people jump the red lights. The vast majority of people doing it on my commute seam to be doing it to save time not for any other reason, IMO at all of the junctions I have seen it's far safer to stop at the red light than not. I also don't get the get in front of traffic argument either as in every case the person jumping the light slows down the whole queue of traffic whilst the traffic passes them again only to have to repeat the process at every light. Maybe this argument would have some weight if the average commuter was fast enough to actually stay in front of the traffic but I have yet to see that. On my commute I loose more time having to pass dawdling cyclists holding up the traffic after RLJing than waiting at the lights themselves and it really irritates me so I can't imagine how annoyed car drivers get with the average commuter.

Also why are fixies cool to commute on? I can't imagine that most of the people riding them wouldn't find wearing a skinsuit, shaving your legs, seeing how much lactic acid you can build up in your legs and other things associated with track cycling cool?

Iain

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Saw three RLJs pulled over by Police at Ludgate Hill, pedestrains and cyclists cheering.

So while students kick ass over a Millbank, Police knick RLJs, they've got there priorities spot on.

@ Iain Gillam

I also don't get the get in front of traffic argument either as [b]in every case[/b] the person jumping the light slows down the whole queue of traffic whilst the traffic passes them again only to have to repeat the process at every light.

I wonder where you cycle? In my part of London (travelling between Euston and Paddington), the person at the front of the queue (me) is as quick as the other traffic, at least over a short burst, i.e. to the next lights. Like you I don't run through red lights, but I always go well over the white line so that I don't get wiped out by the left-turning observationally-challenged drivers (nearly got hit again today).

Basically, unless I'm knackered and/or into a headwind, I avoid the bus/cycle lane and ride with the cars. Best way to keep alive is to flow with the traffic rather than dawdle in the gutter

I went though some red lights and mounted the pavement in the car this morning, just to even things out a bit.

nickf: I go between Fulham and South Ken, most of the lights are close enough that I can manage to get to the lights before the cars and scooters. Motorbikes are a bit more of a struggle, if they have fairly good reaction times then they can get me. However, I haven't seen anyone on the commute getting close to 20mph (the average I'd say would be closer to 10mph) and the cars could easily do that between most of the sets of lights if they didn't have to dodge the cyclists.

Iain

I never jump red lights, always stop at zebra crossings and don't ride on pavements (even with the kids), and I take a personal delight in berating those cyclists that run into the back of me thinking I'll keep on going at the slightest hint of a lantern rouge. Want to be treated like a road user? Act like one. My commuter bike has a bell, lights and reflectors front and rear, but I confess that the pedals are reflectorless, but the overshoes are not. I don't wear luminous clothing either.