[Closed] London cycling commuters, are you breaking da law? 😉

A little old, but interesting

http://www.cityoflondon.police.uk/CityPolice/Media/News/NewsArchive/2009/campaign-brings-top-results-CoLP.htm

No; I'd like the police to actually tackle the serious crime that blights many peoples' lives, not ponce about giving out a few Fixed Penalties.

Do you have a cost breakdown on how much they spend on serious crime and how much on ticketing cyclists?

Can't say I ever ride on the pavement but I'll admit to jumping the occasional r/l at 5:45 when I can see all traffic and it's safe to do so. At that time of day along Moorgate it's very quiet - no pedestrians and not much in the way of traffic.

It's a fair cop if I get caught and on my return leg I'll obey all signals as the traffic is much busier and there are lot more (unpredictable) people walking about. It's an entirely different kettle of fish from a safety point of view which is my primary concern TBH - if it was safer then I'd rlj and put up with the occasional ticket.

I think it's all about shades of grey - as an occasional rlj I have no right to moan about other cyclists doing the same but it never ceases to frighten the bejesus out of me how stupid / inconsiderate some cyclists are. it's only a matter of time before i watch someone get knocked off on the ride from the office to London Bridge. Whether that's by a bus / taxi / irate pedestrian I wouldn't like to say...

No Babylon gonna catch me anyway; I'm too fast for them.

Oh, and I've been pulled up on my morning ride just the once - by a police motorcyclist. I'd perhaps fancy my chances vs. a car in London traffic, a BMW bike, not so much 🙂 . He had a most excellent line in sarcasm but I got away without a ticket.

If one abandons the possibility of a better society in favour of giving priority to individual concerns of preference the possibility of a better society diminishes.

I'd like a better society and so I sometimes give preference to what I perceive as the greater good.

In cycling I think that that equates to generally obeying the law as it inconveniences me very little and means that drivers etc. are less likely to have a problem with cyclists in general.

See, I'm doing you all a favour 😉

That was my point.
to blithely say all red lights must be obeyed at all times is nonsensical. When the road design is such that it is safer to go thru on red then I will do so. My safety is paramount. I don't do it for my convenience and I don't ride on pavements.

elfinsafety - I would imagine that Policing in London works the same as round my way....
There are 'neighbourhood' meetings with the public where grievances are aired & the public are given the opportunity to say what they would like to see targeted.
The Police then have to look at these areas, regardless of how serious they are - I think it's through the Neighbourhood Policing team.

It's probably a similar thing in London & cyclists flouting the rules is probably quite high up some people's agenda.

I am not saying this for sure, but potentially this is why it appears that the Police are spending more time in 'low-crime' areas than in 'high crime' estates. Perhaps the people in the lower crime areas are more likely to go along to these meetings and pipe up, than the people in the higher crime areas....??

Agreed TJ!

I know for a [u]fact[/u] that there is a [b]direct link[/b] between those that jump red lights on their brakeless fixies, with playing cards/postcards in the spokes, and trousers that are far too tight...., and those that come on to become axe wielding murdering rapists.

[u]Lock 'em up [/u]I say, [u]lock 'em up good[/u], for today it's flaunting the laws of road and fashion, tomorrow it's planting a hatchet in the face of [b]OUR[/b] loved ones whilst they 'dishonor their reputation'.....

DrP

I went through a red light once in my younger days and almost caused an accident. Never again, I sure learnt my lesson 🙁

On my daily commute in and out of London there's not one set of lights that I think to myself 'hey, that will make me safer if I jump them'.

I hope you wear your helmet when you jump those red lights TJ 😀

what's your general thoughts

...that Red Lights Jumpers are fools and deserve whatever they get whether that be a fine or a trip to the hospital, don't do the crime if you can't do the time. :wink:.

I know for a fact that there is a direct link between those that jump red lights on their brakeless fixies, with playing cards/postcards in the spokes, and trousers that are far too tight...., and those that come on to become axe wielding murdering rapists.

This is actually true.

Lock 'em up I say, lock 'em up good, for today it's flaunting the laws of road and fashion, tomorrow it's planting a hatchet in the face of OUR loved ones whilst they 'dishonor their reputation'.....

And I agree with this. Fixies are a scourge on our society.

Yet is there a CoL Anti-Fixie squad? No. See; one more example of how real crime is ignored, in favour of 'performance figures'.

Perhaps the people in the lower crime areas are more likely to go along to these meetings and pipe up, than the people in the higher crime areas....??

I actually know for a fact that people on my estate aren't informed of these meetings; you need to go to the local police station to find out the details. However, just down the road in another 'zone' (much wealthier neighbourhood), leaflets are put through residents doors, informing them of the meetings. Funny, that...

I won't bore you with the details of the politics with local policing here, suffice to say that clear up rates aren't as high here as they are in other areas. Mind you, it does mean all the drug dealers, prostitutes and other scrotes get pushed into one zone, away from where the nice decent people live.

Mind you, it does mean all the drug dealers, prostitutes and other scrotes get pushed into one zone, away from where the nice decent people live.

Not all bad, then?? 😉

I won't bore you with the details of the politics with local policing here, suffice to say that clear up rates aren't as high here as they are in other areas. Mind you, it does mean all the drug dealers, prostitutes and other scrotes get pushed into one zone, away from where the nice decent people live.

And I bet they don't jump reds where the decent people live either. 😉

you know when you go on holiday and see that awful stereotypical british family abroad:

overweight, bad bulldog tattoos (husband and wife), 5 kids all named after footballers, sunburnt, shouting loudly in english at waiters thinking it'll help them understand, swearing across the swimming pool, drunk at 10am kinda thing....

and you think "oh god, they give us such a bad name, if only people could see we're not all like that?!"

well that's what seeing cyclists jumping red lights, riding on the pavement, riding without lights at night, not wearing anything reflective and not wearing a helmet makes me feel like... "oh god if only people could see we're not all like that!"

i know you all make your own personal risk assessments and blah blah blah, but f*ck me its painful to see. are you all insured for when a car hits you after you've jumped a redlight? as its not their fault you've decided to break the law.

(EDIT - for anyone who doesn't like my opinion... oh well, its my opinion, I'm not stating it as a fact or as gospel... just an opinion. i can't be bothered to get drawn into an argument and have stayed away from these threads in the past for that reason.)

Red Lights Jumpers are fools and deserve whatever they get

You do know in your second video, that the camera bod and at least two other cyclists are forward of the stop line, and are therefore guilty of the same offence as the lad who went right over? 😉

Here's a Red Light Jumper I caught on video

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cheesyfeet/4363185696/

Rubbish - I am putting no one in any danger and its not a sport and I am not an ambassador

Are you riding a bike? Well done - you are now a cycling ambassador to everyone that sees you while on it.

You can disagree all you want, but it remains that practically every non-cyclist that sees you on your commute riding your bike is going to pigeon-hole you 'cyclist' in the same way that every person with a big stick on a golf course is a golfer and everyone behind the wheel of a BMW is a BMW-driver.

It's stereotyping, but that's just how it is.

I wonder how many anti-RLJers are cheeky trail riders…

flamejob - I must confess to a cheeky bit of off road footpath riding, mainly at night.

I wonder how many anti-RLJers are cheeky trail riders…

😆

I have the tin opener - anyone got the can of worms?

😉

to blithely say all red lights must be obeyed at all times is nonsensical

No-one objects to a common sense approach. It's just a question of what common sense is.

You do know in your second video, that the camera bod and at least two other cyclists are forward of the stop line, and are therefore guilty of the same offence as the lad who went right over

I presume your winky is to indicate that you know there's a big practical difference between what the one cyclist did and what the rest did..?

So anyway E&S, are you leafletting your local neighbourhood and letting them know when the police meetings are? Or putting up posters?

Anyone lucky enough to ride on the tube strike day? Complete and utter madness, newbies running red lights because they assume it's the thing to do, must of witnessed 4+ near accidents, all involving red lights.

Enough is enough people.

I presume your winky is to indicate that you know there's a big practical difference between what the one cyclist did and what the rest did..?

In terms of the Law, no. No difference at all. They've all gone over the stop line. So, they've all RLJed. In fact, I think the motorcop may have also committed an offence, as he wasn't responding to an 'emergency', and therefore bound by the same laws as the rest of us.

All a bit silly really anyway.

So anyway E&S, are you leafletting your local neighbourhood and letting them know when the police meetings are? Or putting up posters?

Yes, we've made the local plod leaflet the area, and gone round to encourage other residents to come along to the meetings. At the last one, they ran out of sandwiches before the meeting even began, and had to get extra chairs. The senior Babylonians seem a bit hacked off that we're making them do their jobs properly, but things are slowly improving. Sad that it took damage to one of their spensive vehicles before they actually started to do owt, but small steps.

Tube strike day was painful. Lost car drivers randomly changing lanes, staring at sat navs, generally poor driving. The casual cyclists seemed to have dark clothes, no lights, no balance and hardly any air in their tyres.

All the 'valid' reasons for RLJ are just excuses really. There's no need for it

Apart from induction loop activated lights that don't pick up an aluminium moutain bike yet alone a carbon road bike. If it's quiet and no cars come up behind you the lights don't change!

molgrips - Member

"to blithely say all red lights must be obeyed at all times is nonsensical"

No-one objects to a common sense approach. It's just a question of what common sense is.

Actually several posters on here seem to have difficulty with the concept. Then I see such poor safety awarenesses from cyclists and not just the "casual " ones but the lycraed / helmeted up "pro" commuters as well.

Enough is enough people.

[img] [/img]

I'm not the only one who notices peoples tyre pressure then?

The only time I've jumped red lights is when I've encountered those sensor activated ones that even my vast bulk wasn't enough to trip.

I will admit to an odd bit of on-pavement riding though. I have a short cut from the end of my usual off-road route to the house that saves quite a bit of time and distance but requires a little bit of pavement riding (perhaps 20 yards) as there is no through route on the road. If I was caught doing it I'd regard it as a fair cop, but there isn't much chance of that!

I actually used to ride on pavements a lot, but that was when I worked in Livingston as a local bylaw allowed riding on the pavements.

In terms of the Law, no. No difference at all. They've all gone over the stop line.

You know as well as I do that the law is subject to the discretion of those prosecuting it.

But well done for leafleting mind.

I wonder how many anti-RLJers are cheeky trail riders…

Not me, although that's because there isn't really any such thing as a cheeky trail up here! If I did live somewhere with less enlightened access laws I'm not convinced I'd pay an awful lot of regard to them though.

Fair enough TJ, I don't remember having any particular problems there, YM must have V.

Plus, putting your wheels over the white line doesn't count imo.

I presume your winky is to indicate that you know there's a big practical difference between what the one cyclist did and what the rest did..?

Not saying I disagree with you molgrips just playing devils advocate.

I wonder how many anti-RLJers are cheeky trail riders…

I can see where TJ is coming from - I occasionally jump lights on my commute as well. I don't make a habit of it, I don't go charging blindly through scattering pedestrians in my wake or forcing cars to swerve but there are plenty of situations where getting the jump on the 2 lines of revving cars behind me makes it safer and more convenient for all concerned. I get up to speed and out the way of a dangerous junction, cars get a clear run without the challenge of accelerating, changing gear, manoeuvring and overtaking me combined.

I do admit I don't 'run' red lights, however if I'm at a cross roads and both set of lights are on red then if no one is crossing on foot I will carry on.

Another instance is at a pedestrian crossing, if the lights are on stop an no one is there to cross or is currently crossing then I don't see an issue with it to be honest

Another instance is at a pedestrian crossing, if the lights are on stop an no one is there to cross or is currently crossing then I don't see an issue with it to be honest

What do the cars sitting there think of that I wonder? I suspect they'd rather like to be able to go through the pointless light as well, wouldn't they?

I pull up to the front, or the outside of the inside lane if I can't get out front. Then when the lights go I am quick off the mark, but I stay in the middle of my lane through the junction so I can't be overtaken, if it looks like being tight. I'm going fast enough for it not to be a problem so I don't get grief for it.

Another instance is at a pedestrian crossing, if the lights are on stop an no one is there to cross or is currently crossing then I don't see an issue with it to be honest

I do that sometimes (not that often though), but I get off and push the bike and remount the other side

I have to say, that in certain circumstances (Like riding an MTB on the road rather than my commuter which is too heavy for much tomfoolery) I'm exactly the sort of cyclist the Daily Mail and it's readers hate:
Red lights? Whassat you say? What are they? I don't give a flying toss about them. I'll use the pavement as and when I feel like it, cut in and out of stationary or slow traffic, jump off roundabouts and speed ramps, steps, pedestrian areas, anything. I'm a nightmare for it. I give way to peds, but cars are fair game for blocking if I feel like it and they've annoyed me. I've banged on the side of a few in my time.

Why? Fun, innit 🙂

I get up to speed and out the way of a dangerous junction, cars get a clear run without the challenge of accelerating, changing gear, manoeuvring and overtaking me combined.

Funny thing is when I'm in the car and there is a cyclist at the lights I actually hope they go a few seconds early, makes it easier for everyone.

In an ideal world at busy junctions cycles would get a headstart, but lets face it if this ever happened there would be an uproar from the average motorist

richmtb Funny thing is when I'm in the car and there is a cyclist at the lights I actually hope they go a few seconds early, makes it easier for everyone.

Indeed. the two junctions I describe doing this at I am out of the cars way - safer for me, less frustrating for them.

I don't have to rely on the cars seeing me and giving me space - Or demand my space in teh road - I am out of there before they get there.

I really must do the urban rider vid to post on here.

Why? Fun, innit

Innit though! Big up an nuff respect an ting to the Podmeister! 😀

I find car wing mirrors get in my way, so I do myself and all other cyclists a favour by removing them. The drivers never use them anyway, and removing them increases the aerodynamic efficiency of their motor vehicle which saves fuel and is better for the planet. 🙂

I've never had any one get annoyed, beep me, try and race past me or give me grief when I've either parked at the front of a queue, cycled up the inside (whilst stationary) or sprinted off before all the cars. I think motorists appreciate that it works well and gets me out of their way until they can pass normally.

I’ve jumped all of the red lights at some time on my commute, but follow them at other times, there are quite a few factors that influence these decisions. I’m aware it’s illegal and if I get done for it, then I’ll accept the consequences. I also accept that any argument I put forward to why I do this would fail to satisfy some folk on here, but similarly the ire or arguments expressed by them will not dissuade me from doing so. When my ride to work has brought society to a state of near collapse and our children are feral, I’ll finally know my work is done.