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London commuters, what's your general thoughts on cyclists being given tickets by the law... For offences such as Cycling on pavements, running red lights and things like that?
It's wrong. I (not proudly) do it all the time. What i don't really get is why police keeps complaining about lack of staff - at least to justify to me the lack of action regarding my two bikes stollen and house burgled - but they have the resources to deploy a team of 5 guys stopping cyclists. To me, just an easy way of making money, perhaps with some prevention thought behind it.
but they have the resources to deploy a team of 5 guys stopping cyclists.
That same Cycle Task Force is also spending time security marking bikes and giving out general bike security advice to cyclists.
sick and tired of rlj er's, get the law changed rather than break it.
My pedals do not have reflectors.
but they have the resources to deploy a team of 5 guys stopping cyclists.
Preventative policing. The theory being, that if they can dissuade folk from running lights, there is a lower chance of a fatality / serious injury, which would take a lot of resources to investigate.
I'm not saying I agree with it, but that is part of their argument.
It's rare for me to do either in Edinburgh, never felt the need the few times I've ridden in London, what's the justification?
The only time I've seen cops giving tickets to cyclists here was for rlj'ing on the cyclepath at the bottom of the meadows, which I thought was pretty meaningless.
why not, if its breaking the law? I sometimes go through red lights, but I'm also often cycling to work at 4am, so i take the chance, just like when i'm driving i might be doing 45mph along the 5 lane road which is 30mph limit. If i get pulled over, i know i'm in the wrong. I can justify it in my head, but i also know that i a breaking the rules, right or wrong.
I can't see how people get so self-righteous at being caught for jumping lights, riding on pavements etc. You know it's not legal and all the posturing about "don't the police have better things to do" doesn't really get around it.
If I sit with the traffic at a red light, there's every possibility that a bus/lorry could turn left across me. As death doesn't seem like a good option, I'm completely relaxed about breaking the law and going over the white line. If a fine comes my way, so be it.
i generally don't jump the lights (almost never?). but often a car will pull right in front of me to stop me from doing so anyway. they then speed off with a roar, so i try and keep up. by the next lights, when they're not expecting me to be there, i saunter along in the cycle booster lane, all casual - jessica fletcher style, and give em a big smile!
why jump lights when you can have so much more fun annoying drivers in their own terms 😈
If I sit with the traffic at a red light, there's every possibility that a bus/lorry could turn left across me. As death doesn't seem like a good option, I'm completely relaxed about breaking the law and going over the white line. If a fine comes my way, so be it.
use the advance stop line or if there is not one, position yourself in front of the traffic.
use the advance stop line or if there is not one, position yourself in front of the traffic.
But that's where the busses, lorries, cars and motorbikes are stopped.
...so how does a police officer pull you over when you're on a bike to give you a ticket ?
Kev
If you run red lights then you should expect to get fined or more seriously knocked down. What sort of example is it making to young kids when they see adults breezing through red lights like they're the only person on the road.
It breaks the system, accidents will happen.
Five tickets and then your bike gets crushed.
diddums, get in line with the rest of the traffic till you can safely overtake.
undertake and die
rlj and pay fine
there are many choices in life.
If I sit with the traffic at a red light, there's every possibility that a bus/lorry could turn left across me. As death doesn't seem like a good option, I'm completely relaxed about breaking the law and going over the white line. If a fine comes my way, so be it.
Not sure I see your logic on this one. If you jump a red light there is always an outside chance that a vehicle trying to beat the red on the opposing set of lights will speed through the junction. In which case a fine will be the least of your worries...
I stop at red lights. Loads don't.
Advance Stop Lines are very good, just a shame that the only way you can find them in London is by finding a stationary Bus, Taxi or Van as they will always be on top of it. Last week even saw an idiot riding the wrong way up a 4 lane one way street - 'kin idiot.
All the 'valid' reasons for RLJ are just excuses really. There's no need for it
I cycle 15 mile each way in London on my commute. I go through 64 set if lights on my route, it's early in the morning and if it's safe to do so I run the light. If it might endanger me or anybody else I don't. I accept I a'm breaking the law and if I get done I get done, fair cop. But this morning one of my normal roads was closed to traffic going the way I wanted, there were no diversion signs . So I hopped on the empty 20 ft wide pavement and gently cycled along following another cyclist. We both got stopped and done, it's a fair cop just like if I run the light. .. But ffs in a city where they are trying to promote and encourage cycling they should be focused on the numpty car/taxis/buses killing/injuring cyclists every week. It's time common sense was applied by the police and a joined up approach taken. Grrrrr. ... I'll get off the soapbox now. Lol.
ti_pin_man in "STW common sense outbreak" shocker
"... area man cycles through red light when there is no traffic and LIVES TO TELL THE TALE!"
All the 'valid' reasons for RLJ are just excuses really. There's no need for it
There are times when it is safer for me to go thru the red light - then I do so.
If i wait for the green I get pinched into the kerb by car drivers due to bad road design. If I set off 20 seconds early when I can see my route is clear then I don't get put in danger.
If i wait for the green I get pinched into the kerb by car drivers due to bad road design. If I set off 20 seconds early when I can see my route is clear then I don't get put in danger.
...or you could just let the car go first.
Its not one car - its a steady stream of them. There is no way of being safe and obeying the law during times of busy traffic - and this is on a main cycling route with a cyclists signal.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=55.945307,-3.191228&spn=0.011583,0.027595&z=15&layer=c&cbll=55.945347,-3.190982&panoid=sgMeVpAVirDnW9oA3cElfg&cbp=12,324.93,,0,5
its absurd.
Vehicles come from the left and the right - the cycle way goes up the middle. The lights are timeed so that the cycleway gets a green as the vehicles from the right do. If you leave on the green as you join the road you have a stream of cars from your right who all immediately cross to the left lane. There is almost always illegally parked cars there as well.
You can clearly see hundreds of yards down each road. If you go on the red when you can see everything is clear you get to teh next ASL ahead of the cars ( its always on red)
To me, just an easy way of making money
Er so on the one hand you complain about police lack of resources, and on the other you are complaining about them making money from fining wrongdoers..?
Nice.
If I sit with the traffic at a red light, there's every possibility that a bus/lorry could turn left across me
That's why you take the middle of the lane. Plus, putting your wheels over the white line doesn't count imo. Sailing all the way through on red is the real problem.
If I set off 20 seconds early when I can see my route is clear then I don't get put in danger.
20 seconds? Never needed more than 2 seconds to be honest.
I have no time for cyclists breaking the law by jumping red lights, riding through pedestrians on green crossings, cycling up one-way street, etc.
every cyclist that does this (and its a large % in London based on what I experience on my daily commutes) gives the law-abiding cyclists a bad name in the eyes of the public
its the law...don't complain when you get nicked by the Police
a simple reply for anyone under the illusion that the law does not apply to them when they ride their bike?
[b]grow up...[/b]
+1 for Esher's comments above.
So I should obey all red lights even when it puts me in danger to do so?
Red lights - I consider it a no-no. Just doesn't make sense. Also find that if you adopt that attitude then motorists don't give you such a hard time: either on the roads or in general conversation which I think is a good thing.
Pavements - only occasionally (though I know I shouldn't) and usually only briefly if there's no one walking on it and I'm trying to keep my flow on while navigating slow traffic interspersed with parked cars.
If I got busted I'd be annoyed but would have to hold my hands up.
So I should obey all red lights even when it puts me in danger to do so?
Do you habitually jump red lights TJ or is it just in one or two special cases for specific reasons?
Jumping red-lights puts you at the same level as ar$e-hole drivers.
You're an ambassador for your sport whether you like it or not.
Every time you run a red it's another excuse for the Daily Mail to run an 'evil, lawbreaking cyclist' rant.
Vehicles come from the left and the right - the cycle way goes up the middle. The lights are timeed so that the cycleway gets a green as the vehicles from the right do. If you leave on the green as you join the road you have a stream of cars from your right who all immediately cross to the left lane. There is almost always illegally parked cars there as well.
Is that the top of the Meadows? If so, it seems your experience is very different to mine, is there not a cycle lane to ride into? I've never had any bother there, nor much hassle with parked cars, but when they are present they are as easy to get around as anywhere.
In the City Of London the City Of London Police have a pledge to fulfil to residents of the City Of London. The biggest complaint by COL residents is cyclists riding on the pavements, therefore the COLP have to respond to the Policing Pledge
i think other forces will be pissing in the wind with regards to actually enforcing it though
I do it at lights that I know the sequence, where I can see every car and where it is dangerous to go on red - like the set I linked to above..I don't do it for my convenience nor at sets that I don't know the sequence. I don't always do it at these sets - it depends on the traffic conditions but my safety is paramount
Another set where i do sometimes
There is a pinch point a hundred yards ahead and you can clearly see the cars to right and left - and the pedestrians get a go then the road I am on. I go after the peds have cleared. I will be turning right at teh next set of lights. Doing this I am clear of the pinch point and in a right turn lane before the cars catch up with me. If I wait till green I get cars attempting to pass at teh pinch point and then Ihave to manoeuvre into the right turn lane across a line of vehicles. Again the pinch point is made worse by illegally parked vehicles
Escher I sort of agree but wouldn't go through a zebra crossing with people on and I wouldn't go up one way streets, that strikes me as endangering me or others.. But when you don't risk anything and as stated sometimes it's safer , then I would brake the law.
I also agree it sets a bad example and gives us a bad image with other road users... But very few if these other road users show respect to one another and are often frankly abusive to cyclists so I don't see me changing my ways will make one blind bit of difference. That's not who the human race is and it's nieeve to think it can change. On a bike in a London commute you so often can only whistle the self preservation society song! 😉
Cynic al - yes thats teh one. Do you not get the cars from your right cutting across you as they attempt to get to the left hand lane? The cycle lane is habitually blocked and is too narrow anyway. Even in the cycle lane you still get pinched. There is not enough room for two cars and a bike although it is marked for that. add in a parked car and its safer to be ahead of the cars not alongside them
I use this regularly at busy times
Another STWer had a near miss there and got sworn at by a car driver when he had gone on the green. To release the cars from the right and cycles at the same time is dangerous.
I never ride on pavements.
I'm missing a pedal reflector and my lights aren't BS-marked. I'll go over the white line if there's no ASL or there's a car sat in it.
There's a couple of red lights where crossings to my left are on green but I'm going straight on and I'll sometimes nip over those as I'm not endangering anyone and it gets me out of the way and on to the wider part of road so traffic behind can get past more easily.
Anyone stupid and blind enough to RLJ when there's a brightly-dressed policeman on the other side of the junction deserves all they get, frankly.
Breaking reasonable laws, even little ones, is generally corrosive. Dissolving away those small matters of manners which bind us together as a society.
RLjing etc. makes life more dangerous for all cyclists as it makes us less predictable, as a group, and builds resentment from drivers and others who would say "they're all the same...".
Following the law in this respect is part of being a resonsible adult, seeing the big picture beyond one's own (selfish?) perspective.
I think people have a problem with those who sail through red lights regardless, not a bit of tactical rule bending TJ, so you can probably stand down 🙂
As for being pinched by cars - when I am at risk of this I usually move out into the middle of the lane to own my bit of road. If it's that tight cars usually aren't going any quicker than I am, so no-one seems to mind. If I am holding people up for a while I'll pull over with a wave to thank them for their patience. A bit of eye contact also works wonders.
But very few if these other road users show respect to one another and are often frankly abusive to cyclists so I don't see me changing my ways will make one blind bit of difference.
I've actually been congratulated by drivers whilst I wait at red lights - many seem to appreciate it.
rubbish gritty shaker. Its bad road design that means we have a choice between safety and obeying the law
As for
Pimpmaster Jazz - MemberJumping red-lights puts you at the same level as ar$e-hole drivers.
You're an ambassador for your sport whether you like it or not.
Rubbish - I am putting no one in any danger and its not a sport and I am not an ambassador
The biggest complaint by COL residents is cyclists riding on the pavements
Is it? Got any evidence to back this up?
COL police target cyclists because it's a nice hi-profile opportunity to show that they're doing something. They know they'll catch people, they know they'll make money.
However, in areas of high crime, police seem to be at a much lower profile. In fact where I live, the police will often only pursue cases where they believe they have a reasonably strong possibility of a decent prosecution. They actively patrol the new private housing developments and more affluent areas, to appease the wealthier residents. Policing is no longer about fighting crime; it's about being seen to offer a value for money service. On my estate, after months of ASB crime, the police only acted after one of their cars got smashed up. They have to be embarrassed into action, it seems.
Harassing cyclists is pathetic; for every RLJer, there's a hundred dodgy cars with no tax, insurance, MOT, etc.
Pft. I'll ride according to my own requirements, ensuring my own and others' safety. If it means I jump the odd red light, or ride on a bit of empty pavement now and then, so be it.
No Babylon gonna catch me anyway; I'm too fast for them. 😉
Harassing cyclists is pathetic; for every RLJer, there's a hundred dodgy cars with no tax, insurance, MOT, etc.
And correspondingly, there are loads of coppers looking out for the unlicensed etc and they spent presumably millions on that fancy electronic system that looks up numberplates etc as they drive.
You are saying that because they have at least one other thing to deal with they should ignore the one that YOU want to be able to do...?
Breaking reasonable laws, even little ones, is generally corrosive. Dissolving away those small matters of manners which bind us together as a society.
(Raises eyebrow. Lights up spliff. Fondles shiny bike bits bought on tinternet from America, thus avoiding import duty, tax and stuff...)
I very rarely jump a red light - almost never.
However, I did a couple of weeks ago on a night ride as the lights turned red as I approached the stop line, there was no one behind me, no one coming towards me, no pedestrians & no cars at the turning to the right that had just gone to green. As it was dark, I could see there was no one approaching that turn either (no headlights on the road) and I could hear no engine/tyre noise.
Situations like that I have no qualms about going through the light, especially if it's just changing.....and if I get caught, then fair enough I don't have an issue with it.
I can't think of a situation I have ever been in where jumping a red light has been safer than waiting with the traffic.
You are saying that because they have at least one other thing to deal with they should ignore the one that YOU want to be able to do...?
No; I'd like the police to actually tackle the serious crime that blights many peoples' lives, not ponce about giving out a few Fixed Penalties.
(Waits for someone to show actual factual evidence of the horrific impact of cycling 'crimes' has on Society...)
Yeah thanks for that TandemJeremy.
Safety issues aside I suppose. I judge that sort of thing as and when. But as a general principle I obey the law. Others, as a general principle, don't. There'd be far less RLJing, pavement riding (the stuff that winds folk up) if people would consider the big picture.
I'd also suggest that it's probably best if your ambassadorial talents and cycling are kept as far apart as possible 😉