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Rubbish at riding on the flat, in wind, downhill or TT. And seems to lack tactical nouse.
I guess you've beaten him a fair number of times then 🙂
That's a bit harsh, he very nearly cracked Froome on the alpe, froome was saved by a team mate that day.
Nobody would deny he's good going uphill but given recent trends, he's not going to get a TdF where there's enough climbing to make up for his mediocre (for a GT winner) skills in other areas.
I guess you've beaten him a fair number of times then
🙂 I'm obviously commenting in the context of World Tour riders and not your average club racer! Though I'm sure I could take him in the town line sprint 😉
he's not going to get a TdF where there's enough climbing to make up for his mediocre (for a GT winner) skills in other areas
He needs steep irregular climbs too. I don't think he can pull out enough of a gap on longer Alpine ones.
I agree with comments about Quintana as a racer. Never shown more clearly when Froome attacked over the top of a climb in last years race (can't remember the stage). Rather than instinctively go after him he looked around for teammates (esp. Valverde) to show him what to do.
this x1000. Completely lacks any natural racing instinct or aggression and that was a really good example- he rolled to one side and looked back to see who would do the chasing (hoping for Uncle Valverde) rather than give chase. He starts races sitting on Froome's wheel before Froome has become race leader, so he's lost the psychological battle from the gun.
That's a bit harsh, he very nearly cracked Froome on the alpe, froome was saved by a team mate that day.
yes, Quintana specialises in doing too little too late; a half-arsed attack in the last half of the last climb is known as the "Dan Martin" move 🙂
I guess you've beaten him a fair number of times then
I assume he's comparing NQ to his peers.
I dislike Valverde to the extent he's like my pantomime villain and I root for "not valverde" but he is everything that Quintana isn't, Quintana needs to start learning from him rather than relying on him (especially as Valverde only 'rides for someone else' when it fits with riding for himself). I reckon Valverde fancies his chances this year more than ever and is waiting for Quintana to crack before he assumes team leader spot.
yes, Quintana specialises in doing too little too late; a half-arsed attack in the last half of the last climb is known as the "Dan Martin" move
cos riding away from team sky is just so so easy. 🙄
cos riding away from team sky is just so so easy.
That's not the point.
The point is that NQ needs to do exactly that if he wants to make up for his deficiencies elsewhere.
I also think after the level of sportsmanship he showed at the Giro he better hope he has no problems or Sky/Orica/Sunweb are going to be queuing up to pull on the front and put time into him.
cos riding away from team sky is just so so easy.
I agree the Sky train has been brilliant at suffocating the race and limiting attacks, but if you're watching the same races I am it's down to the final GC contenders in the last few km's with all the trains and domestiques burned, Quintana (who's been shadowing Froome whilst he's being towed by his train) then stays on Froome's wheel before finally attacking too late to take any meaningful time.
I genuinely don't think Quintana thinks he can beat Froome at the Tour; it seems he needs steep, high altitude and multi-gradient climbs of the Giro or Vuelta to be able to make a series of attacks before one sticks, with froome unable to 'time trial' back.
I dislike Valverde to the extent he's like my pantomime villain and I root for "not valverde" but he is everything that Quintana isn't,
Much the same here. He's pretty much ruined Flèche Wallonne and Liège–Bastogne–Liège for me 🙁 Sits at the top of the tree of unrepentant dopers. Unfortunately so brilliant at so many things he even makes Sagan look a bit one dimensional.
cos riding away from team sky is just so so easy.
Movistar as a team are just as strong as Sky, if not stronger. And they help Quintana immensely as he needs an awful lot of protection through most of every stage. He couldn't have had better support at the Giro either with his team setting an infernal pace whenever the road went up and usually isolating Dumoulin ready for Quintana to deliver a KO... which he couldn't.
I genuinely don't think Quintana thinks he can beat Froome at the Tour
Yes, he might point to the Vuelta last year, but both Quintana and Froome know what happened there and on the big climbs and TT I don't think Froome would have seen anything from Quintana that would worry him. Much the same if he was watching this year's Giro.
I agree the Sky train has been brilliant at suffocating the race and limiting attacks, but if you're watching the same races I am it's down to the final GC contenders in the last few km's with all the trains and domestiques burned, Quintana (who's been shadowing Froome whilst he's being towed by his train) then stays on Froome's wheel before finally attacking too late to take any meaningful time.
he took 1.20 out of froome on the alpe which is no mean feat, and as i said earlier if it wasn't for richie porte he may well have cracked altogether cos he looked decidedly wobbly half way up.
Movistar as a team are just as strong as Sky, if not stronger. And they help Quintana immensely as he needs an awful lot of protection through most of every stage. He couldn't have had better support at the Giro either with his team setting an infernal pace whenever the road went up and usually isolating Dumoulin ready for Quintana to deliver a KO... which he couldn't.
for Quitana to crack sky early on a mountain stage he will probably crack his own team too, assuming he has the legs, though it's not impossible to solo from there, Andy Schleck managed it afterall, it's not certain to work or get any more time than a concerted attack towards the end.
he took 1.20 out of froome on the alpe which is no mean feat, and as i said earlier if it wasn't for richie porte he may well have cracked altogether cos he looked decidedly wobbly half way up.
The key here is that he didn't crack altogether and NQ failed to put enough time into him to make up for the time he'd already lost. Which is basically what we're all saying. Nobody is saying he's not one of the best pure climbers of his generation but, like Andy Schleck (another excellent pure climber), he has massive downsides that limit his ability to deliver a grand tour without taking advantage of some situation or other.
Andy Schleck managed it afterall, it's not certain to work or get any more time than a concerted attack towards the end.
Was how Pantani beat Ulrich to win his Tour.
Thing is there's been tiny climbers at the Tour for decades and more often than not they've usually not been able to gain enough time on the climbs to offset their losses on the flats and time trial. Going back to 1970 the Tour, in 46 editions, has only been won by a climber 4 times (or 6 if you count Schleck and Sastre). And Quintana is not as good a racer as Van Impe or Pantani.
Hah... double Andy Schleck post. What are the chances? As an aside, he's a nice chap and has a nice bike shop but he's put on the weight a bit unlike big bro Frank.
The problem for NQ soloing is that he's tiny = absolute power is comparatively very low = unless its steep enough to severely negate wind resistance a solo isn't likely to happen.
The problem for NQ soloing is that he's tiny = absolute power is comparatively very low = unless its steep enough to severely negate wind resistance a solo isn't likely to happen.
Yep, he could go early on a climb midway but would lose it all to a half decent chase on the descents and the valleys, and probably would then lose more again on a final climb. He would need men up the road to help him. It'd be very risky for him.
he took 1.20 out of froome on the alpe which is no mean feat
and that's the only example I'm seeing used, and
The key here is that he didn't crack altogether and NQ failed to put enough time into him to make up for the time he'd already lost. Which is basically what we're all saying
this. Alpe d'huez = last climb on last day = too little too late.
It'd be very risky for him.
And Quintana and Movistar race conservatively. Contador would risk a do-or-die move, not Quintana.
To put NQ's relative frailty into perspective, estimates for FTP for a Tour win is about 6.2 w/kg ([url= https://sportsscientists.com/2009/07/tour-de-france-2009-power-estimates/ ]source[/url]). Quintana, this equates to about 350W, which matches up with some of the figures shown during the Giro. That's about as much power as a good club racer (though they'd be carrying about 20kg more!) He's racing in a peloton of guys with a threshold power of well over 400W. I think Contador was meant to be around 420W ([url= http://protrainingplans.cc/training/warm-up-like-contador/ ]source[/url]). And some of the big rouleurs will be putting out a lot more. This is a huge deficit for Quintana unless he's on the proper steep stuff. It's why he can get done over on the flat wind swept stages, he's riding that much harder than everyone else relative to their overall capacity. And why going long in the mountains is risky without a lot of support. It's why tiny climbers generally don't win the Tour.
Going back to that move by Sagan and Froome and saying Quintana should have gone with it and not just looked around. Fact is he probably just didn't have the raw power to go with it and that's why he was looking for support.
And Quintana and Movistar race conservatively. Contador would risk a do-or-die move, not Quintana.
Contador has the capacity to do that. Quintana doesn't. His lack of versatility very much limits Movistar's tactical options.
For all the beef 'n'shit, I'll really miss bertie when he quits
Quintana I won't miss at all I don't think; Froome quite a bit; Valverde - I'll slightly celebrate his going (while grudgingly accepting that he had some skillz)
I am a huge fan of Contador for his racing prowess, despite his doping past.
I am a hater of Valverde for his doping past, despite his racing prowess.
I have no problem with this hypocrisy 😀 though in all seriousness it's also based on their current performances. Bertie doped at the height of his powers, he's several years older now and is not as strong he was. Valverde is even older, yet he seems to be if anything even stronger, and he's strong across the full length of the season (apologies not trying to derail this into another doping thread).
Grand Tours are won by time trialers who can climb. NQ is no tester and he isn't going to win this year - just ask Tom. Sad, but the age of the pure climbing contender has long since passed.
25/1 for Bardet was a good call, He'll be in my team. I'm a huge fan of his.
25/1 for Bardet was a good call, He'll be in my team. I'm a huge fan of his.
Good bet for a stage and maybe a podium. Similarly Aru, he seems to be coming into some great form.
Sad, but the age of the pure climbing contender has long since passed.
I don't think there ever has been, at least in modern times. You get a few exceptions like Bahamontes, Van Impe (though he was Belgian so may not count), Ocana, Delgado, Pantani and Sastre, each with one win. And that's since 1959, in 57 editions of the Tour. It's been all-rounders and more recently the GC specialists. And as good as Pantani was, he needed one legendary ride on a very bad day for Ulrich to win his. You'd be a mug to bet on a climber for the top spot on GC 🙂
The usual guide and "who will win" from inrng...
http://inrng.com/2017/06/tour-guide/
http://inrng.com/2017/06/who-will-win-the-green-jersey-2017-tour-de-france/
http://inrng.com/2017/06/who-will-win-2017-tour-de-france/
Interestingly places Valverde and Fuglsang ahead of Quintana.
Anyone putting a few quid on? Got a few EW bets on Pinot to podium at 111/1 and chaves 67/1, Izaguirre at 151/1 and Quintana to take KOM @ 33/1
Makes it a bit more fun over 3 weeks
Sorry I havent gone back through all the pages of this thread.
Is there a STW Velogames league for TdeF ?
@rosey: 912897520
You're not allowed to join though - your team always beats me 🙁
Discussed to death on [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-drugs-dont-work-1 ]another thread[/url]
Nice shoes Cav
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Nike still having their shoes made by DMT? Their custom program is nice for the handful of riders on it.